Asking for donations in the forums

Flip, great post. I also don't like the solicitation threads. The reason why is because like Brianna stated before, we all have debts. Donating to someone that is in less debt than I am just laughable. I have to admit, it takes guts to post here on the forums and ask for money because I sure wouldn't be able to. To me, this just isn't the place to do it. I agree with your point that if you are in finacial trouble and feel like soliciting for help, it should be done amongst your friends in private. Hopefully, future solicitors will have just a little more dignity and keep it private.

I think most folks that know me well understand that I feel really awkward asking for donations. As a result, most of my fundraising attempts are probably more subtle than they should be.

That said, there would be no Shelter as it exists today if there weren’t donations and support from the community. I doubt you'll see me starting threads asking for cash in General anytime soon - but my signature alludes to it, and the fact that we are resident supported does come up in conversation by me from time to time.

While we are non-profit, the Shelter isn't linked with any RL charity, and our cause is a 'virtual' one: A place to go after the Welcome Area & Help Island, but before one has established a 'home' here. Others seem to think that mission is as important as I do, judging from the amazingly generous donations we've received in the past.

The Shelter isn't the only organization in Second Life ran like a virtual charity. It would be a shame if our avenues to reach the forum community were cut off because of potential abuse of the privilege.

I think it's the way a person asks for a loan or gift of money that determines how much or how little I'll be aggravated by their request.

If someone posted in the Events section that they needed money for tuition or rent, and so they were having a big event and auctioning off things they made to try to raise some money, it wouldn't bother me at all. In fact, even if I didn't know the person, I'd probably go by and buy something, even if I didn't need it or want it. Or even if their stuff was crappy. I'd probably even suggest they put out a donation box.

What bothers me is a stranger asking me for money (loan or gift doesn't matter). It's an imposition, and it's rude.

In r/l, I'll buy ugly wilted flowers from somebody on the roadside who looks like they need the money, before I'll give money to somebody that just walks up and asks me for it, or holds a sign asking for money. In fact, if the person on the roadside looked hot or tired, I'd probably go get them a sandwich and a drink, come back, and tell them to sit down and relax a while and I'd sell their flowers for them. I guess because the sense of desperation from that person rings truer than the others.

The other thing that bothers me a lot is when a person asks for a loan or gift of money, and they say something indicating they COULD work for the money, or COULD get the money more appropriately, but they're not willing to do it.

"I could make money if the houses I sell were big pink ones, but I like to make little blue ones."

"I could pay my rent a few days late but my landlord won't like me anymore."

Again, it's how true their desparation seems. Personally, I'd make pink houses or tolerate the pain and anxiety of my landlord being unfriendly for a while, or even just ask people what they think I should do, rather than ask for money when I know I can get at least some myself.

Entitlement. That's what it is. An inappropriate sense of entitlement to something. Ugh.

See this post

After reading through the various opinions, I think the bottom line is that I'm okay with tip-jars, but not with panhandling. Its always irked me when people begged for L$ at the Welcome Area as well; I don't know why, I think I find the patheticism of begging for "less than a gumball" more annoying than the actually panhandling aspect of it.

The different between Travis's fundraising and certain others is that his is a tip-jar; I've donated at the Shelter when I've been there, because I find their events entertaining, the crowd a lot of fun, an appreciate the staff's efforts. Its also on private land, holding an event I've chosen to attend. However, in public forums, events listings, and the Welcome Area, I think its a compeltely different story. There needs to be more accountability in Linden-sanctioned areas rather than private areas, in my opinion.

Tip jars sit on the bar and are voluntary; there's not a human being proactively seeking out the money. Tip jars can't initiate a scam.

Regards,

-Flip

This sort of material could be censored as you suggest, but at what cost? Any policy which eliminates questionable schemes will eliminate some innocuous charities as well. A better approach is to ensure residents are able to comment on and call attention to the questionable schemes.

The problem I've always had with these public requests for money is that it's near impossible to tell who really need it, versus those who are just trying to fleece an easy scam. I hesitate to call anyone a beggar or a panhandler, in case they really are in need. But then again, neither do I intend on giving them money and risk rewarding their dishonesty.

How does one get around that seemingly no-win situation? I dunno. Here's one suggestion though, one that I've used in the past.


If a person asks for money....offer to help them with what they need the money for....not the money itself.

For example, if a person is asking for assistance to cover rent, or for schoolbooks, or baby supplies, etc, then help them resolve the need for the money. Offer to buy the books and give it to them, or donate them groceries, etc, something that helps them with their need. Those that have a genuine need will be able to benefit. Those that dont, however, will not be able to abscond with ill-gotten money.

It's not a perfect solution...but it's been my opinion that when a person is in true need...money is not what they need. The money is just a way to get that need filled.


- Newfie

Sorry for any confusion on this--with so many complex things in our world, it's nice to have simplicity.

I conferred with Robin about our policy.

All further threads explicitly asking for donations will be locked.

Never mind

Have a look please.

Threads asking for donations are not allowed on the SL Forums.
Thankyou, I hope this is clear. ^.^

Can you maybe put that in red?

What sort of posts aren't allowed? Would someone running an event for the benefit of a real-world charity with that charity's permission be able to post about it in the forums?

As you mentioned later, yes, virtual panhandling isn't appropriate. Also, for more examples, if I were to make a post saying I need $$$ for a new computer, or $$$ to help out my ailing sister, or even looking for $$$ to help bankroll a business. Those are not allowed. There are many places to do this, but the SL Forums isn't one of them.

As Flip extensified in his original post--the most appropriate thing to do would be for representatives from such an established charity to get in touch with LL and what they're doing. Robin loves to hear about making use of SL for things like this, and she can be emailed by any charities... [email=charities--robin@lindenlab.com]robin@lindenlab.com[/email]. That could potentially be the best win-win for all involved, as witnessed in previous charity events.

Thank you for getting this clarified, Torley.

What about requests for loans?

Thanks for the clarification, Torley; this was the solution I was hoping for.

While I feel for people in financial need, 97% of the USA is in some sort of financial need; only 3% are truly financially independent. I guess I just saw it becoming a slippery slope. That being said, I think the threads have raised some excellent suggestions on better ways to find help, so its been a good exercise.

Best of luck to those who are in need.


I'm pretty sure that falls under solicitation.

Regards,

-Flip

Wowzer Flipper, who'd you sleep with to get a two day turnaround on LL policy clarification?

This is, bar none, the most amazing thing I've every seen in these forums.

hehehehehe, I think I better question is who *haven't* I slept with... just kidding!

I've noticed much better lines of communication since Torley has become a conduit between the citizens and LL, and also give kudos to Karen Linden for the development updates. These two have done much to improve communication between the LL and the community.

Regards,

-Flip

No loans either. Plenty of places to ask for those on the Net and offline in "real life"... just not here.

We're keeping this "donations" policy simple and clean, like Utada Hikaru.

Seriously I like to ask about a lot of things and if it's simple in a Forrest Gump sort of way, I mean, that I can expedite. I'm like the "villager Linden", gosh you should see some of the observations I send in company emails...

I'm sooo happy you're amazed Khamon!!

Welkies Flip... and Karen inspires me!!

SUGAR IS SWEETER!