Burglar's Bargains: CAPITALISM Rulez
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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11-28-2005 16:11
I just wanted to send a shout-out to LL and all those in SL who are making it a hotbed of capitalistic activity.  The FBI, NYPD, and other organizations are starting to take notice - as is the rest of the world.  LL should be decorated by the President as an emissary of the world for what capitalism can do when employed!  Yay LL and Yay Capitalism!! Visit My Theft-Onomic Blog! God Bless America!
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Jonquille Noir
Lemon Fresh
Join date: 17 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,025
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11-28-2005 16:22
Hey, just because that monitor says it was created by someone else doesn't mean that dapperly dressed man isn't a hero for helping newbies!
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Little Rebel Designs Gallinas
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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11-28-2005 16:45
From: Jonquille Noir Hey, just because that monitor says it was created by someone else doesn't mean that dapperly dressed man isn't a hero for helping newbies! maybe you are correct... From: Jamie Bergman Just to set the record straight, it is not against the TOS to resell objects. I'm a capitalist, I bought an object at a lower price then I'm reselling it for. I can't be responsible for selling things for less than I paid. Sorry, thats rule #1 of capitalism. You can't sell something for less than L$0 , after all!
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-28-2005 19:51
Capitalism, to me, describes the wholly righteous act of people working very hard for their own betterment and being justly rewarded for that work. What you're talking about here is not capitalism in any form, despite the protestations of the criminal in question. What you're talking about is parasitism of a sort that no true capitalist would ever embrace.
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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11-28-2005 19:54
From: Enabran Templar Capitalism, to me, describes the wholly righteous act of people working very hard for their own betterment and being justly rewarded for that work. What you're talking about here is not capitalism in any form, despite the protestations of the criminal in question. What you're talking about is parasitism of a sort that no true capitalist would ever embrace. A lot of people on these forums need basic help in understanding the principles of different economic systems. To that end, I've typed up a short history of communism. Check it. http://sleconomyblog.blogspot.com/
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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11-28-2005 19:58
What Jamie doesn't seem to realise is his dispresect of intellectual property is exactly what they do in communist countries, such as China or the old USSR.
Countries with a history of strong capitalistic ideals believe in strong intellectual property rights and have passed laws against the sort of thing that Jamie is doing.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
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11-28-2005 20:00
From: Jamie Bergman A lot of people on these forums need basic help in understanding the principles of different economic systems. To that end, I've typed up a short history of communism. Check it. http://sleconomyblog.blogspot.com/I think you have an entirely different definition of "economic systems" in your lexicon.
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
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11-28-2005 20:00
From: blaze Spinnaker What Jamie doesn't seem to realise is his dispresect of intellectual property is exactly what they do in communist countries, such as China or the old USSR.
Countries with a history of strong capitalistic ideals believe in strong intellectual property rights and have passed laws against the sort of thing that Jamie is doing. You trickster, old chap!! Posing as a capitalist! Verrrrrry clever.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-28-2005 20:02
From: Jamie Bergman A lot of people on these forums need basic help in understanding the principles of different economic systems.
To that end, I've typed up a short history of communism. Are you that ignorant of intellectual property law? You're a common thief posing as some master of business. It's disgusting.
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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11-28-2005 20:11
Just... just stop it. No amount of rational discourse or logic or stating facts will change her mind. We have to face it. The era of the freebie is over. Hence, anything will have to come with an explicit licence, outlining what rights the end user has bought and what rights they waive by using it. We must demand LL give us a permissions system that allows us to enforce that licence. The free market has many benifits, but like all things it comes with drawbacks, one of which is it gives those with no moral fibre the latitude they need to be the leeches they are.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-28-2005 20:15
This is worse than freebies, Jillian. Someone's leaked vehicle is being sold there, too. No shame at all. 
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blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
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11-28-2005 20:18
Interesting... in the absence of an explicit license the default is the permission system?
I'm not sure that's correct either. For example, on the web you can go cut/paste HTML.. but that doesn't give you the right.
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Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper " Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds : " User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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11-28-2005 20:24
From: Enabran Templar This is worse than freebies, Jillian. Someone's leaked vehicle is being sold there, too. No shame at all.  Yeah, I know. Freebies kicked it off, and it's been a bad couple of weeks for me and my freebies... I'm a bit hung on the subject. The fact she's selling an item that is quite broadly known to be stolen does indeed prove beyond any shadow of doubt her mettle. Which is why I don't think she's worth a fraction of the effort being put into her.
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Jillian Callahan
Rotary-winged Neko Girl
Join date: 24 Jun 2004
Posts: 3,766
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11-28-2005 20:28
From: blaze Spinnaker Interesting... in the absence of an explicit license the default is the permission system? I'm not sure that's correct either. For example, on the web you can go cut/paste HTML.. but that doesn't give you the right. I know where you're coming from, blaze - however it would seem that LL is not willing to help on this matter. Robin's recent comments at the end of a similar thread suggest a policy that, in effect, leaves the permissions system as the only licence.
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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11-28-2005 20:30
From: Enabran Templar Capitalism, to me, describes the wholly righteous act of people working very hard for their own betterment and being justly rewarded for that work. What you're talking about here is not capitalism in any form, despite the protestations of the criminal in question. What you're talking about is parasitism of a sort that no true capitalist would ever embrace. it wouldn't be a proper parody of the principal without touting capitalism and God Bless America!!! From: Enabran Templar Are you that ignorant of intellectual property law? You're a common thief posing as some master of business. It's disgusting. Enough of this beating around the bush stuff!! What exactly are you trying to say? (incidently, I hurt myself laughing at this post. My lawyer and doctor are a fierce tag team and very capitalistic, watch out buddy. Please keep my health in mind next time you are so entertaining in your bluntness!)
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Huns Valen
Don't PM me here.
Join date: 3 May 2003
Posts: 2,749
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11-28-2005 20:56
The ZX4 Attack Chopper should not be sold by anyone other than the person who created it. I know that someone is selling it for L$500, and I don't think it's the same person who created it.
Also, unlinking an object and then relinking it with something you created, so that it appears you created the entire object, is against the TOS. A long time ago, someone gave me a copy of the ZX4. I unlinked it and checked the creator of all the prims. The root prim was created by one person, and almost every other prim was created by another person. So not only do we have unauthorized reselling, we also have blatant plagiarism.
I think a certain someone would benefit from learning what personal integrity is.
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Dyne Talamasca
Noneuclidean Love Polygon
Join date: 9 Oct 2005
Posts: 436
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11-28-2005 21:39
Another caseOh, here's an idea: buy a tiny 16 m2 plot of land next to stores that sell freebies and put up a giant rotating cube that both lists the items in question as well as gives away copies of them on Touch. Run a "visitor list" script wide enough to catch anyone next door. Offer to sell the plot for L$99999 per square meter, then if taken up on the offer, distribute that cash to everyone who turned up on the visitor list. 
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Mulch Ennui
15 Minutes are Over
Join date: 22 May 2005
Posts: 2,607
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11-28-2005 23:52
irony or perhaps this is for when you "Grab the Green and Run!"
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I have of late--but wherefore I know not--lost all my mirth, that this goodly frame, the earth, seems to me a sterile promontory, this most excellent canopy, the air, look you, this brave o'erhanging firmament, this majestical roof fretted with golden fire, why, it appears no other thing to me than a foul and pestilent congregation of vapours. http://forums.secondcitizen.com/
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Dark Korvin
Player in the RL game
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 769
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11-29-2005 00:00
Wow, that is a nice exchange rate. "irony" is sold in US$ as if the exchange rate is L$133/US$1 or US$7.47/L$1000. The "Grab the Green and Run!" sells for US$ as if the exchange rate is L$94/US$1.00 or US$10.60/$L1000. Sorry, if I didn't notice what I was supposed to, but that will have my head spinning for days now.
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Kris Ritter
paradoxical embolism
Join date: 31 Oct 2003
Posts: 6,627
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11-29-2005 01:31
Capitalism != thieving scum, Jamie.
But I guess it's as good an excuse for thieving scum to hide behind as any.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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11-29-2005 02:29
Someone asked me why I stopped my involvment in projects like GNU wave. Why I don't make anything and just hand it around anymore. Why I don't support or extend any of the freebies I made in the past. Consider this Exhibit A. And for those who like the twist of the ironic. By a strange twist of fate - the conditions I agreed to when I entered that freebie scripted item contest oh so many moons ago was that I was not to sell the item I entered. As I am a man of my word - this curiously puts me in the position of being the only person in SL who cannot sell my hot tub  I won't be making the same mistakes with 2.0 Or anything else in the future. Once upon a time I thought helping the community was a noble cause - In hindsight perhaps building a community worth helping would have been nobler.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
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11-29-2005 04:34
Welcome back, Siggy, hope you're doin' alright.
And this is exactly what I fear and what sucks about it. In the meanwhile, until we get new or overhauled permissions, people are either going to make freebies no-transfer, meaning they'll be harder to share - Or people will just not make them at all.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
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11-29-2005 05:30
Hmm.
Slider hair and a newbie shirt. That seems a little odd. Alt? Whose?
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Ferran Brodsky
Better living through rum
Join date: 3 Feb 2004
Posts: 821
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11-29-2005 05:34
From: Siggy Romulus perhaps building a community worth helping would have been nobler. I don't think there is enough duct tape in the world =O
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Sator Canetti
Frustrated Catgirl
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 130
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11-29-2005 07:43
From: Huns Valen The ZX4 Attack Chopper should not be sold by anyone other than the person who created it. I know that someone is selling it for L$500, and I don't think it's the same person who created it.
Also, unlinking an object and then relinking it with something you created, so that it appears you created the entire object, is against the TOS. A long time ago, someone gave me a copy of the ZX4. I unlinked it and checked the creator of all the prims. The root prim was created by one person, and almost every other prim was created by another person. So not only do we have unauthorized reselling, we also have blatant plagiarism.
I think a certain someone would benefit from learning what personal integrity is. Well, ya know, they could at least give it a paint job, the zx4 is sorely in need of one.
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