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Something important, with no punchline or genital humor

Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
07-18-2006 09:09
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Hiro Pendragon
bye bye f0rums!
Join date: 22 Jan 2004
Posts: 5,905
07-18-2006 09:10
!(drama)
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Khamon Fate
fategardens.net
Join date: 21 Nov 2003
Posts: 4,177
07-18-2006 09:10
From: Cory Edo
One thing I don't understand about it is she decries the loss of freedom in the metaverse but all her examples are entirely forum-related. While one may be the official vehicle for discourse (as you put it), one does not equal the other.
You're trapped in the maze of believing that the world is The Grid and nothing else. Anything that supports this population is part of this world including the mainland, this forum, 3pointD, the Community Roundtable mailing list, Delicious, the history wiki, Prokofy's blog, SLCC, SLOG, SLUniverse, visible resident estates, WoW. When are we going to stop strapping our sense of community to a few simulators offering a contiguous landscape? We don't do that in the real world anymore; why do we force such a limitation on ourselves in Second Life on the mainland and nowhere else damnit!!1!one?

WoW? Yes, a good number of our population plays, has played, WoW and very often grouped themselves there the same ways they have here. Everyone, sans Jarod, that I know in SL, I met in SL. If anyone oughta argue that The Grid is The World damnit and the forums are not, it should be me. But I refuse to limit my impression of Second Life to what I can see through my client. That's wonderful; but it's only a fraction of what I experience knowing, and getting to know, the people of Second Life in countless related venues.
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Phedre Aquitaine
I am the zombie queen
Join date: 26 Jan 2006
Posts: 1,157
07-18-2006 09:18
From: pandastrong Fairplay
  1. I coined the term "coined".



Snrk.
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
07-18-2006 09:20
From: Cory Edo
GodDAMMIT you had to go and edit your post and be serious again.

OK, two answers, or points, or questions, or something....

I read Ulrika's quote. One thing I don't understand about it is she decries the loss of freedom in the metaverse but all her examples are entirely forum-related. While one may be the official vehicle for discourse (as you put it), one does not equal the other. If she's still actively in SL, she can do the exact same things she did previously inworld as she could when she first started.


If I am not mistaken, she received an in-world suspension. I am probably mistaken though, because I am really dumb.

From: Cory Edo
Let's try The Sandbox, which honestly is the big place I see Ulrika post. (which is for off-SL topics, btw, if we're talking official discourse.)

Sandbox: last 10 pages, 4 threads locked. The reasons:
- "Which resmod do you think sucks and why?" (This went on for 6 pages, and considering the whole thing is talking shit about other residents, I'm actually suprised it went on that long.)
- "Strife is a NAMBLA member and look I'm comparing him to Hitler too"
- "The Jesustime guy is a gimp"
- "J-Wu is a NAMBLA member and look I'm comparing him to Hitler"


See, maybe it is just me, but I love all of this. It has nothing to do with drama, and everything to do with creative and exciting ways of drawing attention to a problem.

Parody, including forum-centric memes, is a truly rad post-modern approach to expressing dissension. Ulrika manages to draw attention to problems within SL as well as within the forums, and she does it from the core of "what she can be in SL". Just as people role-play bipedal wolves and scif-fi slave masters, I believe she should be allowed to bring out the revolutionary into her avatar. Her sentiment about expressing repressed parts of her RL into her SL character moved me. Maybe I am just a big softy?

And while I am at it... BRING BACK DARKO CELLARDOOR!

If others are offended and/or don't get it, they should ban Chris Rock and Che avatars from SL too.
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media



"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
07-18-2006 09:27
Ulrika just loves being a naughty girl. She'd become bored if nobody was around to spank her now and then.
Starax Statosky
Unregistered User
Join date: 23 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,099
07-18-2006 09:32
I was spanked once. Look, I'm still sore!!

FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
07-18-2006 09:47
Less Vorlon

More Shadow!
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Uma Bauhaus
Renascene
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 636
07-18-2006 10:10
From: pandastrong Fairplay
Parody, including forum-centric memes, is a truly rad post-modern approach to expressing dissension. Ulrika manages to draw attention to problems within SL as well as within the forums, and she does it from the core of "what she can be in SL". Just as people role-play bipedal wolves and scif-fi slave masters, I believe she should be allowed to bring out the revolutionary into her avatar. Her sentiment about expressing repressed parts of her RL into her SL character moved me. Maybe I am just a big softy?
Your serious posts are as brilliant as your humorous posts (but rare like diamonds). I don't think I've seen such accurate and deep insight into Ulrika's nature in the forums before.
Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
07-18-2006 10:22
From: Khamon Fate
You're trapped in the maze of believing that the world is The Grid and nothing else. Anything that supports this population is part of this world including the mainland, this forum, 3pointD, the Community Roundtable mailing list, Delicious, Prokofy's blog, SLOG, SLUniverse, visible resident estates, WoW. When are we going to stop strapping our sense of community to a few simulators offering a contiguous landscape? We don't do that in the real world anymore; why do we force such a limitation on ourselves in Second Life on the mainland and nowhere else damnit!!1!one?

WoW? Yes, a good number of our population plays, has played, WoW and very often grouped themselves there the same ways they have here. Everyone, sans Jarod, that I know in SL, I met in SL. If anyone oughta argue that The Grid is The World damnit and the forums are not, it should be me. But I refuse to limit my impression of Second Life to what I can see through my client. That's wonderful; but it's only a fraction of what I experience knowing, and getting to know, the people of Second Life in countless related venues.


I completely agree with you that in terms of community and the overall experience one gains from SL, each aspect that involves or reflects the grid contributes (in varying degrees) to one's quality of experience. However, they are not SL in and of themselves. Each aspect/website you listed exists because of SL - they discuss it, reflect it, pictoralize it, analyze it, but none of them would exist (with the exception of WoW and possibly 3pointD) without it, and none of them are substitutions for it. They accentuate the experience - they are not the experience itself.

From: pandastrong Fairplay

If I am not mistaken, she received an in-world suspension. I am probably mistaken though, because I am really dumb.


Your guess is as good as mine, honestly. I had to go back over to off-topic and see what all went down. If it is a suspension, then hell, its 7 days and she's back in.

From: pandastrong Fairplay
Parody, including forum-centric memes, is a truly rad post-modern approach to expressing dissension. Ulrika manages to draw attention to problems within SL as well as within the forums, and she does it from the core of "what she can be in SL". Just as people role-play bipedal wolves and scif-fi slave masters, I believe she should be allowed to bring out the revolutionary into her avatar. Her sentiment about expressing repressed parts of her RL into her SL character moved me. Maybe I am just a big softy?


Dude, you know I'm as much a fan of parody as the next person. But I can also dig that LL owns the boards, they set out some pretty basic rules for using them, and they reserve the right to slap your hand if you start breaking them. Personally, myself, I don't see the connection between Che and Ulrika, unless like Che got into calling people NAMBLA members or Hitler or something. Which is possible because I haven't read up on him in a while. Or maybe there's a case to be made that LL is Cuba. Anyway, my point is that releasing your inner revolutionary is all well and good, like releasing your inner furry or your inner Gorean master or your inner child or your inner pirate/ninja/robot. But they're all expected to abide by the forum guidelines too or else they get the boot. There's a zillion ways she could have made her point, and she's been a member long enough to know what gets locked down.
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pandastrong Fairplay
all bout the BANG POW NOW
Join date: 16 Aug 2004
Posts: 2,920
07-18-2006 10:35
From: Cory Edo

Your guess is as good as mine, honestly. I had to go back over to off-topic and see what all went down. If it is a suspension, then hell, its 7 days and she's back in.


But then isn't she closer to perma-forum-inworld-tied-together-ban thingie?

From: Cory Edo
Personally, myself, I don't see the connection between Che and Ulrika, unless like Che got into calling people NAMBLA members or Hitler or something. Which is possible because I haven't read up on him in a while.


But that would have been soooooooo interesting and fun if it had happened! :D

I hear you on LL owning the forum and setting the rules. There is no argument in that, just a sneaky little grey spot that has the ability to wash out the personalities that drew me into SL to begin with.
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"Honestly, you are a gem -- fun, creative, and possessing strong social convictions. I think LL should be paying you to be in their game."

~ Ulrika Zugzwang on the iconography of pandastrong in the media



"That's no good. Someone is going to take your place as SL's cutest boy while you're offline."

~ Ingrid Ingersoll on the topic of LL refusing to pay pandastrong for being in their game.
Ulviye Zobel
söyle böyle
Join date: 11 Feb 2006
Posts: 25
07-18-2006 10:53
From: Starax Statosky
Ulrika just loves being a naughty girl. She'd become bored if nobody was around to spank her now and then.
It's like the SNL comedy routine with sadist and dentist Steve Martin working on the masochist and patient Bill Murray. One loves to inflict pain and the other loves to receive it. Sick little thing this resmod program has become. It's positively Gorean. :D
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
07-18-2006 10:59
From: pandastrong Fairplay
But then isn't she closer to perma-forum-inworld-tied-together-ban thingie?

Yes.

And if Second Life is all about the game/platform/metaverse and this is just the forums as Cory suggests then, well,...wtf?
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
07-18-2006 11:37
If you realize the order of events, you can see how this came to pass:

1. A moderation decision is made. It is wrong for obvious reasons. Punishment is handed down nonetheless.

2. The individual punished protests this moderation. It is totally pointless, because this individual will never manage to engage a human in a dialogue about it. The person will bet met only by a blank, monolothic, unlistening wall. The case is closed, and was was closed from the start; there was never any recourse, and no one will ever hear your appeal.

Now . . . if you are with me so far . . . it is at this point where the person is supposed to shut up and suck it up. If you just do that, you will be all right.

3. The person doesn't shut up and suck it up, but continues to protest incorrect moderation and a punishment that was not deserved.

4. The person does this by proposing what she considers a mechanism by which we might actually have some say in who it is who has such power over running our Second Lives.

5. But continuing to protest will only get you a more severe punishment. And that is repressive.

I personally disagree with Ulrika; I don't think coming up with a method by which we can oust individual resmods is the solution. This is because I don't think that LL appointing some residents to have power over others is right in the first place.

But I would like to say that I don't think protesting an unfair decision is "acting like a petulant child." Any system where a person who suffers arbitrary and unreasonable moderation absolutely must shut up about it is a bad one. There is no communication in that model, and certainly no avenue for protest.
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
07-18-2006 11:37
From: pandastrong Fairplay
But then isn't she closer to perma-forum-inworld-tied-together-ban thingie?


Oh yeah, totally. But for serious, you can't tell me she didn't know what buttons she was pushing. I'd have total sympathy if she could claim ignorance of the rules. And its not like it didn't go on for 3 seperate threads before the hammer got dropped.


From: pandastrong Fairplay

But that would have been soooooooo interesting and fun if it had happened! :D

I hear you on LL owning the forum and setting the rules. There is no argument in that, just a sneaky little grey spot that has the ability to wash out the personalities that drew me into SL to begin with.


Yeah, its a hard line to watch. And I can see both sides of the arguement too. Personality-wise, there's a zillion other ways that she could have expressed her opinion in classic Ulrika fashion without crossing those lines. I think she's a really smart cookie and the forums wouldn't be the same without her, I don't want to see her banned, so I just hope she plays her cards a little better the next time around. Lord knows she has the brains to pull it off.


From: Margaret Mfume
And if Second Life is all about the game/platform/metaverse and this is just the forums as Cory suggests then, well,...wtf?


I'm not sure that I agree that forum ban should equal inworld ban. I can see their point, aka behave yourself or we take your cupcake away. (That's how I read it anyway.) And they're both owned and run by LL, so they really have the legitimacy to do it if they want. I think personally its overreacting to ban someone inworld if they're banned from the forums, but them's the rules as they stand, and we all operate under that knowledge.
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Uma Bauhaus
Renascene
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 636
07-18-2006 11:49
From: Cocoanut Koala
If you realize the order of events, you can see how this came to pass:

1. A moderation decision is made. It is wrong for obvious reasons. Punishment is handed down nonetheless.

2. The individual punished protests this moderation. It is totally pointless, because this individual will never manage to engage a human in a dialogue about it. The person will bet met only by a blank, monolothic, unlistening wall. The case is closed, and was was closed from the start; there was never any recourse, and no one will ever hear your appeal.

Now . . . if you are with me so far . . . it is at this point where the person is supposed to shut up and suck it up. If you just do that, you will be all right.

3. The person doesn't shut up and suck it up, but continues to protest incorrect moderation and a punishment that was not deserved.

4. The person does this by proposing what she considers a mechanism by which we might actually have some say in who it is who has such power over running our Second Lives.

5. But continuing to protest will only get you a more severe punishment. And that is repressive.

I personally disagree with Ulrika; I don't think coming up with a method by which we can oust individual resmods is the solution. This is because I don't think that LL appointing some residents to have power over others is right in the first place.

But I would like to say that I don't think protesting an unfair decision is "acting like a petulant child." Any system where a person who suffers arbitrary and unreasonable moderation absolutely must shut up about it is a bad one. There is no communication in that model, and certainly no avenue for protest.
Brilliant. Your recollection and analysis of the events are spot on. You've impressed me! :)
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
07-18-2006 11:55
Let me also add (am I on a page yet where that monkey's butt isn't?) that the main problem is this:

What a person says on the forums should not be tied to their ability to play SL. That is repressive in the extreme.

A bulletin board where people are INVITED to give their opinions, and an in-world where people work and play, are two entirely different things.

coco
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Cory Edo
is on a 7 second delay
Join date: 26 Mar 2005
Posts: 1,851
07-18-2006 11:58
From: Cocoanut Koala
If you realize the order of events, you can see how this came to pass:

1. A moderation decision is made. It is wrong for obvious reasons. Punishment is handed down nonetheless.


What was the punishment, besides the thread getting locked? I'm really honestly asking, because I skimmed through what I thought was the applicable threads, but I could be missing the vital one.

From: Cocoanut Koala

2. The individual punished protests this moderation. It is totally pointless, because this individual will never manage to engage a human in a dialogue about it. The person will bet met only by a blank, monolothic, unlistening wall. The case is closed, and was was closed from the start; there was never any recourse, and no one will ever hear your appeal.


I'm not sure I'd use the terminology you're using, but ok.

From: Cocoanut Koala
Now . . . if you are with me so far . . . it is at this point where the person is supposed to shut up and suck it up. If you just do that, you will be all right.


Well, yeah, kinda...suck it up. Its a parody forum thread in off-topic for god's sake, not a personal retribution of everything you stand for as a human being. You're playing on LL's ground, and if you don't like it, we all know where the door is.

Honestly that's why I'd like to see SL become opensource as soon as possible, including hosting our own servers, because its not a metaverse until that happens - its a privately owned company.

From: Cocoanut Koala
3. The person doesn't shut up and suck it up, but continues to protest incorrect moderation and a punishment that was not deserved.


If it was a protest, even though you're not supposed to reopen topics or complain about that stuff in a new thread, that would be one thing. She said the resmod was a NAMBLA member. OK, great, fine, parody, I'm with you. Still kinda uncalled for in the broader sense of things, and now she's insulting by name in addition to reposting complaining about a thread being locked.

From: Cocoanut Koala
4. The person does this by instituting a mechanism by which we might actually prevent wrong moderation from occurring - a mechanism by which we might actually have SOME SAY in who it is who has such power over running our Second Lives.


Again, method is everything. Posting a thread suggesting a voting mechanism for resmods is slightly different than a poll inviting people to diss individual members of the current resmod pool personally - again, a pretty well-known forum rule that's not that hard not to break.

From: Cocoanut Koala
5. Continuing to protest will ONLY get you a more severe punishment. And that is repressive.


I'd word it as continuing to protest in the manner in which it was presented is in knowing violation of the forum terms of service, and that's when you lie in the bed you make for yourself. Could she have linked to a third-party website in her signature where she expounded in great detail her grievances? Sure. Could she have opened any number of discussion threads about alternative solutions to poor resmodding in general? Absolutely. But to expect LL to let her break rules that we all play by, on their own forums, while insulting and inviting insult to volunteer resmods who are still members of the community and the forums, is kinda stretching it in my opinion.
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Baba Yamamoto
baba@slinked.net
Join date: 26 May 2003
Posts: 1,024
07-18-2006 12:01
From: Burke Prefect
Well. Every time I try to make things more interesting, and actually voice those plans, a Linden grabs me by the ear and explains why the idea might not be so benficial to resident-kind.

Specifically, the part where I'd get banned. So I don't bother so much anymore.



Do it anyway..
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Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
07-18-2006 12:30
This is a small reminder to all of you "I am a legend in my own mind" forum dwellers...

...Approximately 95% of the SL population never frequents the forums and, as such, have never heard of your greatness.

The changes that LL is implementing are ongoing adjustments necessary to deal with the "masses." Many of the changes that LL are making we ourselves have lobbied for, yet when they make the changes, we turn around and complain some more.

There is no doubt that there are many intelligent, talented and interesting people in SL that may not need "babysitting." But there are many others who do.

This may depress some of you, but it's the sad truth.

*Throws all of you a tissue*
Uma Bauhaus
Renascene
Join date: 18 Aug 2004
Posts: 636
07-18-2006 12:37
From: Cheyenne Marquez
*Throws all of you a tissue*
I never heard of you either. :D
Cheyenne Marquez
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 940
07-18-2006 12:50
From: Uma Bauhaus
I never heard of you either. :D


You haven't??

Hmmm...that's very odd.

You might want to get out more :)
Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
07-18-2006 13:02
From: Cory Edo
What was the punishment, besides the thread getting locked? I'm really honestly asking, because I skimmed through what I thought was the applicable threads, but I could be missing the vital one.
She received a 3 day suspension for the joke response to Juani. That set the next step being a 7 day suspension for the offense which she acknowledged deserving.
From: Ulrika Zugzwang
Anyways, it seems like the moral to the story is, if you're the victim of mistaken moderation, simply submit an email that will never be acknowledged to [email]abuse-manager@lindenlab.com[/email]. From there, grow frustrated and take the issue to the resmod forum, where the resmod will not acknowledge the mistake or apologize. From there start a poll, which violates the ToS to highlight the on-going poor moderation of this resmod. This time you get a ban that's deserved. Yet the rub is that it builds upon the previous unjustified ban. The total time away is 10 days. Time actually deserved is just 3 days. At LL, that's called "customer service". ;)

OMG!!11! I'm turning into a teenage griefer that's venting in the forums. OMG it wasn't even my push gun! LOL!!!1!

~Ulrika~

Trying to relate this to any other place where I am viewed as a paying customer, I really can't find something else to relate it to (except maybe the nuns at the catholic school my parents paid for :D) which would punisha customer for complaining about the customer service system which the company had installed. I do realize that it's my money that they want and not about me personally but still. Doesn't it seem wierd to be chastised for criticizing and wouldn't you be inclined to not want to spend your money in support of such a place? Yeah, I know, I agreed to the TOS and all. Don't like it, leave, blah blah blah...
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Margaret Mfume
I.C.
Join date: 30 Dec 2004
Posts: 2,492
07-18-2006 13:07
From: Cheyenne Marquez
...Approximately 95% of the SL population never frequents the forums and, as such, have never heard of your greatness.
Everyone in SL isn't emailed an alert when I am posting? :( Say it isn't so!!!
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Joy Honey
Not just another dumass
Join date: 17 Jun 2005
Posts: 3,751
07-18-2006 13:10
From: Margaret Mfume
Everyone in SL isn't emailed an alert when I am posting? :( Say it isn't so!!!


I guess they turned off that feature :( They just don't know what they're missing, I still have mine on :D
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