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Warning- Money Chair Exploit!

Sensual Casanova
Spoiled Brat
Join date: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 4,807
11-21-2005 08:03
I found this info in another thread... thought you may want to spread the word to anyone using money chairs...

I'm reporting it here, so no one accuses me of not reporting it:

Almost all money chairs have an exploit: If you sit in a chair, and then log out, you will get paid for the time that the chair remains empty after you log out. Could be a couple of minutes, could be hours. Its just a matter of finding a money chair that is unlikely to get filled as soon as it is vacant.

It is an exploit because you make money without doing anything, and without actually increasing the traffic of the lot.

Most money chairs use the "change" event to detect when someone sits down and stands up, and going off line does not trigger this event. Sure it can be fixed by polling requests to see if the person occupying the seat is still online, but with hundreds of chairs out there, it wont get fixed anytime soon.

I think the whole money chair thing is just silly.

Yeah the lot managers raise their traffic which results in higher weekly payments, and it is a simple job poor "basic" players can use to make a few extra lindens.

But this is about as exciting as reading books in TSO, and creates unnecessary lag on the whole server that these chairs are on. Surely people can come up with more exciting ways to draw traffic to their lot than this.

Meanwhile, I got rid of two of my stores in malls because they use these lag increasing, sales reducing chairs.

So, I'm not letting people know about this exploit to advocate stealing. I'm letting people know about this exploit in the hopes that lot managers will think twice before setting more of them up.
Moopf Murray
Moopfmerising
Join date: 7 Jan 2004
Posts: 2,448
11-21-2005 08:08
An exploit of an exploit! I love it! I might find myself one of these chairs now to log out from :)
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Jamie Bergman
SL's Largest Distributor
Join date: 17 Feb 2005
Posts: 1,752
11-21-2005 08:26
Me too. I love the smell of free money in the mornings.
Travis Lambert
White dog, red collar
Join date: 3 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,819
11-21-2005 08:30
I'd think the Flanders family would be most interested in this :D
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
11-21-2005 08:33
I wonder how it is that the chairs "create unnecessary lag." Is this just because they are there, or do they have something about them that makes them more lag-inducing that most other things?

coco
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VALENTINE BOUTIQUE
at Coco's Cottages

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Rosieri/85/166/87
Numa Herbst
SHI-SHAAA!!
Join date: 13 Jun 2005
Posts: 99
11-21-2005 08:35
From: Sensual Casanova
Most money chairs use the "change" event to detect when someone sits down and stands up, and going off line does not trigger this event. Sure it can be fixed by polling requests to see if the person occupying the seat is still online, but with hundreds of chairs out there, it wont get fixed anytime soon.


Zoinks.

I sure hope the money chair makers don't use llRequestAgentData() and the associated dataserver event for this.

If the chairs are lagging now, just imagine hundreds of them polling at like 5 second intervals. Ugh...
Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
11-21-2005 08:35
Now that's a shoddily coded chair if i've ever seen one. It's trivial to fix it.
http://secondlife.com/badgeo/wakka.php?wakka=changed
Gabe Lippmann
"Phone's ringing, Dude."
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 4,219
11-21-2005 08:38
From: Travis Lambert
I'd think the Flanders family would be most interested in this :D


Don't try to keep up with the Flandereses. ;)
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go to Nocturnal Threads :mad:
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-21-2005 08:42
Can you log out from multiple chairs?

What if I

loop
Find New Exploit Chair
Sit Down
Log Out
Log In
end loop
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Schwanson Schlegel
SL's Tokin' Villain
Join date: 15 Nov 2003
Posts: 2,721
11-21-2005 08:46
From: blaze Spinnaker
Can you log out from multiple chairs?

What if I

loop
Find New Exploit Chair
Sit Down
Log Out
Log In
end loop


Great idea!
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
11-21-2005 08:52
From: blaze Spinnaker
Can you log out from multiple chairs?

What if I

loop
Find New Exploit Chair
Sit Down
Log Out
Log In
end loop


If you re-rezzed from logging in still seated in the chair, then no, otherwise, yes.

(Edit: is changed() raised if you sit in a chair then teleport out?)

It's a good point though - that badgeo page says nothing about a changed() event being triggered when the av sitting in the chair logs out. Thinking about it, though, it is an easy fix - just check llAvatarOnSitTarget() before paying out each time.

On the same line, you could probably adger such a camping chair nicely by scripting an object that links itself to the chair - assuming I've read things correctly and llCreateLink really doesn't require any permissions (which looks like a huge security hole to me.. mmm, all those nice link messages, I'll be viewing them, thanks very much.)

And as for "why can't they find something more exciting for them to do", there's plenty of reasons for that.

(And my own gestalt "camping crystal" was ruined by the detection limit :( )
Katiahnya Muromachi
Ninja Mistress
Join date: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 130
11-21-2005 09:00
From: Cocoanut Koala
I wonder how it is that the chairs "create unnecessary lag." Is this just because they are there, or do they have something about them that makes them more lag-inducing that most other things?

coco


I think it's more the traffic that is mudding things up as opposed to the scripts used in the chairs. Just this morning, I went to a mall to shop, and there were about 20 people in the middle of the mall sitting in money chairs. Things took forever to rez- it took me about 10 minutes just to scroll through a 36-object vendor. There was so much greyness and blurryness that I couldn't even tell what a store was selling without having to sit staring at it to rez for a minute. In the end, it was taking so much time that I had to abandon my shopping trip and log off, else I would have been late for RL work. :(
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
11-21-2005 09:05
OK, I get it. Well, at least they're just SITTING there. I have a big club next to me now that fills up with dancing nude people. People dancing ALWAYS just KILLS my ability to function. (On the positive side, I'm happy to see a popular place that may bring more window-shoppers to my store.)

coco
_____________________
VALENTINE BOUTIQUE
at Coco's Cottages

http://slurl.com/secondlife/Rosieri/85/166/87
Darkness Anubis
Registered User
Join date: 14 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,628
11-21-2005 09:38
I am wondering since you can set a maximum sit time for these chairs if that doesn't cut this exploit short. if they can sit for 1 hour by this setting I would think the log off while sitting would simply pay at one hour and minimize the damage.
Aki Montale
Registered User
Join date: 21 Oct 2005
Posts: 9
Make it more intriguing
11-21-2005 10:01
Although the money chair thing is a bit of a disturbing concept, owners could make the chairs more interesting and funny by changing them to, say, exercise bikes where avatars would cycle endlessly.

Or make the avatars transform to statues of different poses.

Alternatively one could make the chairs ala Matrix, meaning that the avatars spine would be connected to some kind of monstrous machine that would appear to suck their bio-energy or whatever.


-Something along these lines might actually attract more workers and tourists too...
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-21-2005 10:05
hehehehe

I like the last suggestion the best, though they were all good..
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
Sensual Casanova
Spoiled Brat
Join date: 28 Feb 2004
Posts: 4,807
11-21-2005 10:09
From: Aki Montale
Although the money chair thing is a bit of a disturbing concept, owners could make the chairs more interesting and funny by changing them to, say, exercise bikes where avatars would cycle endlessly.

Or make the avatars transform to statues of different poses.

Alternatively one could make the chairs ala Matrix, meaning that the avatars spine would be connected to some kind of monstrous machine that would appear to suck their bio-energy or whatever.


-Something along these lines might actually attract more workers and tourists too...


Cute ideas! Are you a scripter?
Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
11-21-2005 10:13
From: Cocoanut Koala
OK, I get it. Well, at least they're just SITTING there. I have a big club next to me now that fills up with dancing nude people. People dancing ALWAYS just KILLS my ability to function. (On the positive side, I'm happy to see a popular place that may bring more window-shoppers to my store.)

coco


Ah, the ever-present "naked dancing clubgoer as virtual homeowner" demographic, eh? :)
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
11-21-2005 11:13
From: Sensual Casanova
Cute ideas! Are you a scripter?


I'm going to submit a vote for llDrainBioEnergy(). ;)

There's no way a camping chair script could cause lag, though. Without notecard configuration a camping chair's script would be under 25 lines and wouldn't need any sensors.
Annah Zamboni
Banannah Annah
Join date: 2 Jun 2004
Posts: 1,022
11-21-2005 11:15
I wonder how many times a new resident has seen a group of people on the map and went there to meet people only to find zombies?
Llewelyn Mistral
Registered User
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 49
11-21-2005 11:23
Is there a difference between regular logout and normal away logout then? Because every time I've seen someone logout in a chair, the chair's paid them immediately and freed itself. The only exception I've noticed has been when a sim crash forces logout, then when you get back to the sim afterwards you can see what the opening post described.
Shadow Garden
Just horsin' around
Join date: 17 Jul 2005
Posts: 226
11-21-2005 11:23
I kinda like the posing ones... aka Rocky Horror ... My vote for llVogue().
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"Ah, ignorance and stupidity all in the same package ... How efficient of you!" - Londo Molari, Babylon V.
Bond Harrington
Kills Threads At 500yds
Join date: 15 May 2005
Posts: 198
11-21-2005 11:24
From: Aki Montale
Although the money chair thing is a bit of a disturbing concept, owners could make the chairs more interesting and funny by changing them to, say, exercise bikes where avatars would cycle endlessly.


You misspelt "hamster wheel".:)
Blueman Steele
Registered User
Join date: 28 Dec 2004
Posts: 1,038
11-21-2005 12:18
*blueman thinks about how the news of this exploit should effect dwell and how so many people trying to sit and log out will each cancel out the previous person's attempt.
blaze Spinnaker
1/2 Serious
Join date: 12 Aug 2004
Posts: 5,898
11-21-2005 12:26
From: Shadow Garden
I kinda like the posing ones... aka Rocky Horror ... My vote for llVogue().


Camping chairs in a clothing store, hmmm!
_____________________
Taken from The last paragraph on pg. 16 of Cory Ondrejka's paper "Changing Realities: User Creation, Communication, and Innovation in Digital Worlds :

"User-created content takes the idea of leveraging player opinions a step further by allowing them to effectively prototype new ideas and features. Developers can then measure which new concepts most improve the products and incorporate them into the game in future patches."
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