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Aimee's SLOG post re: SL "political parties".

Eggy Lippmann
Wiktator
Join date: 1 May 2003
Posts: 7,939
11-08-2005 05:56
From: Logan Bauer
I'm sorry blaze, I had to. I wouldn't have, but if my own mother was here and posted those two thoughts right next to eachother within a span of what, 2 minutes? I would have called her on it.

It's a little-known fact, but "blaze" is actually a codename for an automated post generator designed to spew random contrarian "opinions" at a really fast pace.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
11-08-2005 06:00
From: Eggy Lippmann
It's a little-known fact, but "blaze" is actually a codename for an automated post generator designed to spew random contrarian "opinions" at a really fast pace.


Shh! Just don't reveal the telnet addy where we connect and issue commands to it!
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From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
11-08-2005 07:09
From: Aimee Weber

Second Life political parties are difficult to nail down, and I went through numerous revisions before I wrote the article. I am sure it will go through plenty more revisions before anything becomes a generally accepted. Thanks for your input!


I would like to say that while I see parts of myself in all the groups you outlined, there was not enough emphasis on free pony rides or pie in any of the groups to fully incur my support. I would put myself right in the middle of the chart - I think LL is a company, know that they will act as a company. I know the dollar vote is going to be the biggest thing to influence them, but I still like to try to use the voting feature and propose ideas that I think would further the usability of the platform, still like to somewhere in my dumb naive head that LL is a bit more orientated towards community and making their customers happy than many out there say.

The more I reread the definitions, sure I agree mostly with the platform party... But I lean also towards the freedom party... And, if enough people support and want a "game platform", someone out there will make a "The Sims" type game community, I'd wager... If people are fed up with the mishmash, chaotic nature of SL, the "lack of community", the crazy neighbors with their abuse of sim resources, ect, ect - they can now look at Neualtenburg - And if someone out there says, "I don't like barvarian themes or strict, complex systems of rules", then they can make their OWN self-governed co-op... That's one of the things that KEEPS me optimistic is how open SecondLife is and what LL has here. Basically, if you don't like the party you're in, you can always go make your own party.
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
11-08-2005 07:10
From: Eggy Lippmann
It's a little-known fact, but "blaze" is actually a codename for an automated post generator designed to spew random contrarian "opinions" at a really fast pace.

"Contrarian:One who takes a contrary view or action, especially an investor who makes decisions that contradict prevailing wisdom, as in buying securities that are unpopular at the time."

You know, I wouldn't be so sure about that. Nor does putting "opinions" in quotes diminish his even further.

A few people don't actually get to decide all that for everybody else.

But - I guess some of ya's are just gonna have to learn that the hard way.

coco
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
11-08-2005 07:26
From: Cocoanut Koala
I tried to comment on SLOG, but I couldn't. (I wanted to tell Pol Tabla his piece was cute.)
Aw, thanks coco, I appreciate it.

One thing that's nice about participating in a group blog is that you only need to post when you feel you actually have something to say. It's nice not to feel the pressure to crank out content just to keep the thing updated.
Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
11-08-2005 08:09
Well, I read the article and wanted to comment on it.

I felt that the idea of the "gamer party" was unfairly misrepresented. I don't think I've ever heard anyone suggest, on the forums or anywhere else, that there should be a "series of Linden-set challenges" which if passed would guarantee that someone could become a top designer - that would be a ridiculous suggestion to start with.

What the game advocates say is pretty simple: Second Life needs to be a fun experience for everyone, not just the established successes. And this would certainly seem, to me, to be fairly obvious, given that if a new user isn't having fun right now, they can click Close and Uninstall, and then you've lost all their potential sales. And you know something else? It's a matter of perception. If people are coming on, saying "well, every niche is dominated; there's no option to make just enough to get the L$ to live, you have to either go 100% business or 0%" and leaving, then it doesn't matter if they're wrong. Your clear, reasoned explanation IMs will sit in the buffer forever waiting for them to restart the client they scrubbed weeks ago.

Now I know people at this stage might rush to say "well, if they weren't prepared to pay for stuff, they weren't potential customers anyway" but it's not quite as cut-and-dried as that. When someone arrives in SL for the first time, something has to happen to make them care. It's not like RL, where caring or not isn't an option because the only alternative is to die. Why should I buy an outfit for my avatar if I'm not even sure I'll keep the avatar for more than 3 days because the game might suck?

Moreover, why should I buy an outfit for my avatar if I'm not going to be able to set up the social situations I want to be in, including the location, outfit, appearance, actions, etc? If it's going to depend on me finding people who're prepared to accept "fudging" things using descriptive pose text, then, well, I can just find people who'll accept the whole thing in descriptive pose text and save all of my money! I've had experience of this in game. I've tried to set up things that I wanted to do, wanted "my life to be like", live the dream, etc. But in most cases, it isn't possible unless you're multi-talented and have hours to spare, and (certainly in my perception) it's actually worse - in the sense of suspending disbelief - to have graphics than are showing the wrong thing, than to have no graphics at all. So I'm happy to use SL as a scripting and building client, to help others out and do types of work I find enjoyable, and to enjoy things that others have done, but as a vehicle for "living the dream" - as it's sold on the website - it's pretty much useless, and if I want to do that, I do it through *five line description* poses sent via IM.

Why should I buy an outfit to make me look good at a party, if I know that no matter what I buy I'll look worse than the professional designers wearing custom exclusives? All of the RL reasons that you might still decide to dress up for a party in equivalent circumstances just don't apply in the same way in SL, because the social dynamic is different.

I was informed the other day that 25% of the player base of SL never buy or sell anything. If the "it's a platform, but with social add-ons" attitude and its consequent consolidation continues I can see that figure only rising - the "folkie club" effect I alluded to previously.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
11-08-2005 08:33
From: Yumi Murakami
If people are coming on, saying "well, every niche is dominated; there's no option to make just enough to get the L$ to live,


Whoa, I missed this announcement. You need L$ or your avatar will die?

:confused:

What if I cash out my L$ at the wrong time? How do I know how much is enough?

I don't want Enabran to die. :(
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
11-08-2005 08:40
From: Enabran Templar
Whoa, I missed this announcement. You need L$ or your avatar will die?

:confused:

What if I cash out my L$ at the wrong time? How do I know how much is enough?

I don't want Enabran to die. :(


*Pounds Enabran's lifeless chest*

LIVE DAMN YOU!!! LIVE!!!!!!

WHY GOD?! HE WAS SO YOUNG!!!!! WHY DID YOU TAKE HIM??! :(
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
11-08-2005 09:00
From: Aimee Weber
*Pounds Enabran's lifeless chest*

LIVE DAMN YOU!!! LIVE!!!!!!

WHY GOD?! HE WAS SO YOUNG!!!!! WHY DID YOU TAKE HIM??! :(


Psst.

Try jamming some L$ into the hole created by my occipital jack. Or maybe grind some down and tip it into my nose. Betcha it'll get the coughing and sputtering going.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Aimee Weber
The one on the right
Join date: 30 Jan 2004
Posts: 4,286
11-08-2005 09:03
From: Enabran Templar
Psst.

Try jamming some L$ into the hole created by my occipital jack. Or maybe grind some down and tip it into my nose. Betcha it'll get the coughing and sputtering going.


I love my COIN OPERATED BOY :D

<3
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
11-08-2005 09:15
You need at least some L$ to make it worthwhile participating in SL as opposed to

a) doing something else completely, or
b) ignoring all the graphical world features and using it purely as a text-based chatroom.
Logan Bauer
Inept Adept
Join date: 13 Jun 2004
Posts: 2,237
Omg!
11-08-2005 09:18
Quick, get me a banker and a withdrawl slip, STAT!!! DON'T you die on us, Enabran! WHY, GOD, WHHHYY!?!?!
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
11-08-2005 09:28
From: Aliasi Stonebender
Read it. (It's http://secondslog.blogspot.com/2005/11/lets-have-party.html over here)

I'm not so much specifically commenting on Aimee's thought exactly (although sticking Prok and Ulrika in the same category is, in this case, a pretty good call - they're both ideologues in the extreme, the difference is which ideology) but the general organization of the SL population. I don't totally agree with it (since I kinda float around in every direction but the "gamer" one, though I'm somewhat biased in the "country" direction...) but it's a good start, and funny to boot.

And yeah, I get the point that Aimee thinks "Platform" is right. Hell, so do I. But I certainly believe that areas of nigh-total freedom, areas devoted to games, and, yes, areas with government can fit into that platform.
I liked the article (and a lot of people here are taking it too seriously :)), but...

Disagree about Ulrika and Prok being in the same party.

Both demigogues, idealists, etc. but Prok to his/her credit believes in democracy and the rule of law and it's application to all citizens equally etc. Prok will actually toe the democratic line or follow the law/rules etc. even if he/she is on the bad end of the decision.

I like Ulrika a heck of a lot, but IMO she is no Democrat. :D

(at least in the sense the word is used in the article)
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Pol Tabla
synthpop saint
Join date: 18 Dec 2003
Posts: 1,041
11-08-2005 10:13
From: Dianne Mechanique
...but Prok to his/her credit believes in democracy and the rule of law and it's application to all citizens equally etc. Prok will actually toe the democratic line or follow the law/rules etc. even if he/she is on the bad end of the decision.
You said it! I personally have been so inspired by Prok's shining example of equanimity that I'm going to open a freebie store on my plot in Barcola.
Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
11-08-2005 10:44
From: Pol Tabla
You said it! I personally have been so inspired by Prok's shining example of equanimity that I'm going to open a freebie store on my plot in Barcola.


<3
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
Dianne Mechanique
Back from the Dead
Join date: 28 Mar 2005
Posts: 2,648
11-08-2005 10:55
From: Pol Tabla
You said it! I personally have been so inspired by Prok's shining example of equanimity that I'm going to open a freebie store on my plot in Barcola.
I meant more that she/he "follows the rules" is all, and ultimately acquiesces to the majority being as he/she seems to idolise the concept of Democracy.

(and the associated "Free Market" crapola, but that's a side dish) :)
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black
art furniture & classic clothing
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Black in Neufreistadt
Black @ ONE
Black @ www.SLBoutique.com


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Aliasi Stonebender
Return of Catbread
Join date: 30 Jan 2005
Posts: 1,858
11-08-2005 15:17
From: Dianne Mechanique

Both demigogues, idealists, etc. but Prok to his/her credit believes in democracy and the rule of law and it's application to all citizens equally etc. Prok will actually toe the democratic line or follow the law/rules etc. even if he/she is on the bad end of the decision.

I like Ulrika a heck of a lot, but IMO she is no Democrat. :D

(at least in the sense the word is used in the article)


Well, I think the article was less about "non-SL" things (since, democrat, socialist, or whatever, you can generally tell them to go to hell and do your own thing, as things stand nowadays) and more about SL attitude, and both have an intense interest in government-style organization in SL. I don't mean it as derogatory (although I've gotten some blistering talk from Prok over it), and the fact that we could sell out tickets if we made like Tina Turner and stuck 'em both to fight in Thunderdome doesn't enter into it either, though it would be fun!

heck, only reason I even posted this was 'cause there's no comments on SLOG, and it's a general enough topic I thought it was interesting to discuss here. Apparently I've inadvertently stirred some shit m'self....
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
11-08-2005 15:31
by the way, speaking of blog posts, gwyneth recently had a post that somewhat overlaps:

Gwyn's blog
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Icon Serpentine
punk in drublic
Join date: 13 Nov 2003
Posts: 858
11-08-2005 22:20
I was looking for an, "other," category. The one for everyone else that doesn't want parties or sides to choose and were happy with the ambivilant and happy anarchy.

I guess you could say they're like "Platformers," but don't want to get involved and would rather everyone just do their own thing and stop fussing about the ephemeral, temporary things in this virtual world. To them, SL is cool and fun. Anything beyond that is just speculation or expression.
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Torley Linden
Enlightenment!
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 16,530
11-08-2005 22:23
From: Forseti Svarog
by the way, speaking of blog posts, gwyneth recently had a post that somewhat overlaps:

Gwyn's blog


Gwyngwyngwyn is like, highest order genius in SL. I'm biased because of how early I met her on, LOLEX... but she really is sooo bright and nice to me. And how patient she is when someone doesn't understand what she's saying! And she looks fab-'n'-classy at opera houses too. Ahhh.
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Enabran Templar
Capitalist Pig
Join date: 26 Aug 2004
Posts: 4,506
11-09-2005 05:17
From: Torley Torgeson
Gwyngwyngwyn is like, highest order genius in SL.


Seriously. I bumped into her in the sandbox in Morris once.

One of the sharpest people I've ever met in SL.
_____________________
From: Hiro Pendragon
Furthermore, as Second Life goes to the Metaverse, and this becomes an open platform, Linden Lab risks lawsuit in court and [attachment culling] will, I repeat WILL be reverse in court.


Second Life Forums: Who needs Reason when you can use bold tags?
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