I give up on Linden welfare
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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12-02-2005 20:13
From: Enabran Templar Ah, yes, the state of activity in SL is sad indeed.
I can think of no solution that is not open to being gamed and abused and would thus cause more problems than it managed to solved.
I am sure that this issue is one that will continue to vex Linden Lab long after 2.0. Soooo If nothing will help, and if everything will be gamed... Why Not Go Back To ratings bonus, Event Bonus and dwell bonus??? As the person who started this thread stated, the moment problems started was when Linden Labs decided to act upon a very few forum dwellers request and end Event Bonus. I mean... If its going to be gamed anyway, why change??? One wonders how many quit Second Life after they discovered all they would get a week is 50 lindens... The World Wonders,. |
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Magnum Serpentine
Registered User
Join date: 20 Nov 2003
Posts: 1,811
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12-02-2005 20:14
From: Merwan Marker No!
It's a non-issue...I have murmered! Actually, I think going back to the way things were is a good option. |
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Forseti Svarog
ESC
Join date: 2 Nov 2004
Posts: 1,730
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12-02-2005 20:19
hi persephone -- don't get my post wrong -- i'm not saying "events" isn't broken, I'm just saying the complaints sound familiar.
a year later and we still don't have a better events calendar, as a result even the people who would do quirky events for fun are jaded, tired and sick of their efforts disappearing into the chaos of the event calendar
a year later and consumers are no closer to being willing to pay for entertainment
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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12-02-2005 20:21
I never see the kind of events that I would love to go to, because no one holds them! Now I can't really complain as I am not holding that type of an event myself  Perhaps we need to ask why there is a lack of decent events, rather than why there are so many shitty ones. |
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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12-02-2005 20:24
From: Forseti Svarog hi persephone -- don't get my post wrong -- i'm not saying "events" isn't broken, I'm just saying the complaints sound familiar.
a year later and we still don't have a better events calendar, as a result even the people who would do quirky events for fun are jaded, tired and sick of their efforts disappearing into the chaos of the event calendar
a year later and consumers are no closer to being willing to pay for entertainment OK thats an answer to my question. Not one that I agree with tho  I doubt anyone holding a decent event would be too worried about the events listings,not unless they're after the same thing as the rest ie 50 squillion avs. |
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Talon Lardner
Mouse by night
Join date: 5 Oct 2005
Posts: 141
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12-02-2005 20:34
I admit, I never used the events tab of SL, maybe I should start using it... And I agree, I'm in SL for the socializing/amature clothes making, and the events board does not cater to that well. Maybe we should look towards an outside-SL solution for socialising events in SL.
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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12-02-2005 20:37
From: Talon Lardner I admit, I never used the events tab of SL, maybe I should start using it... And I agree, I'm in SL for the socializing/amature clothes making, and the events board does not cater to that well. Maybe we should look towards an outside-SL solution for socialising events in SL. Well socialising is such a broad term, its just people getting together. All events are geared towards socialising. The problem is the lack of diversity. |
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Alain Talamasca
Levelheaded Nutcase
Join date: 21 Sep 2005
Posts: 393
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12-02-2005 20:43
OK... I read all of this...
As a former event holder, let me offer an insight...
WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT??
When I offered events full of culture(Poetry readings, topical discussions, Art critique groups)... a few people showed up, but not enough to make it worth having every week or even once a month... The event never got all the bugs worked out of it because the attendance dwindled before the event even got off the ground.
I offered events that included dancing and conversation... except for a few select groups indicating they would continue support of said events (And these I keep on the burner for those groups and any others interested in stopping by), most people stop by for a few minutes and then go away...
I offered games and gaming events that were developed simply for the joy of play (The "Haiku on the Fly" contest, Greedy Greedy with the pot turned down low and the rake turned off, etc...) Very spotty attendance....
BUT
When I offered free money... P{Lenty of folks
When I offered free stuff... Plenty of folks
I can't offer the chance for sexball activity, since I am in a PG sim, but the areas that have all that going on are almost always jammed...
Hawt Thawng contests bring people in by the truckloads...
You know why?
Because THAT is what the majority of people in SL want.
They WANT cheap, sleazy, tawdry and FREE!
They want FREE MONEY
They want FREE STUFF
They wnat FREE SEX
Essentially, they want a FREE RIDE through SL.
Can you blame them?
They were attracted to SL because it's FREE...
You draw what you bait for.
LL baited the hook with the word FREE.
A basic account is FREE, and so the ranks of citizens swelled, but the bulk of these newcomers wanted everything free... including the content I sweat over and charge people for (Jewelry, Art, Vehicles, Gadgets)
and if that means they have to play *ingo for 37 hours to get the money to do it, they will.
Eventually, they get bored of struggling to make money, and just start camping out, because it's FREE and the money is easy...especially with the exploit that was there (Is it still?).
Oh... and when using the balls at a free club that draws people from all over to boost the traffic count is also free, then the free sex becomes the main attraction.
Culture is dead not because the Lindens took away the bonus, but because they took away the cover charge, and the riff raff have stormed the gates.
Of course, not everyone on a free account is part of the riffraff, but enough are to drown out the crowd that wants a more cultured second life.
_____________________
Alain Talamasca,
Ophidian Artisans - Fine Art for your Person, Home, and Business.
Pando (105, 79, 99)
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Hiro Queso
503less
Join date: 23 Feb 2005
Posts: 2,753
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12-02-2005 20:49
Well said, tho a little harsh lol. The events cater for the majority of the SL population, fact! I guess it's up to LL if they wish to attract a more diverse demographic.
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Siggy Romulus
DILLIGAF
Join date: 22 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,711
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12-02-2005 21:07
Very well said - and with the harshness of reality. Its pretty much as you say it is.
You can lead the camel to the water - but you can't make it drink...
You can only try and find your place in the world with likeminded ppl and be happy - maybe the time will come around when people host poetry and instructional meetings that are successful (it happened in the past - it could happen again).
People will ultimately go where they want and do what entertains them, the reasons clubs etc. do well is because people go there.
Siggy.
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The Second Life forums are living proof as to why it's illegal for people to have sex with farm animals. From: Jesse Linden I, for one, am highly un-helped by this thread
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Usagi Musashi
UM ™®
Join date: 24 Oct 2004
Posts: 6,083
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12-03-2005 03:34
From: Zuzu Fassbinder Well, i just got done reading the latest "money chair" thread, I've decided that I really need to cancel my premium subscription and go back to a basic (no monthly fee) account.
When I first started playing SL a little over a year ago I had a great time. I would pop open the events calender and look for strange or unusual events. I usually met all kinds of fun and interesting people. I settled in with a group of friends and we would build things together (I loved scripting) and bounce around to various events.
Then, at some point the whole climate of SL changed, the elimination of event sponsership made all the "fun" events go away. Suddenly all the strange events went away and people only seemed to host or attend events oriented toward money in some way. Once in a while I would see an interesting event theme and show up, only to discover that there were only 3 people (including myself) there... and half the time the 'host' was afk or otherwise unresponsive.
Many of my friends who were there for social interaction stopped playing altogether.
I fully understand the reasons for cutting out event (and later ratings) support, but an unintended side effect seems to have changed the world into a money-oriented rat race. I haven't logged into SL in a couple weeks now.
I suppose my problem is that I'm not the kind of person that is "wanted" in the SL community. I've never sold anything I made for $L. I've never bought or sold $L for $US. If I see something for sale in game that I like, I buy it, if it is reasonably priced. If I can't afford something I make it myself or go without.
In any case, LL will soon stop recieving their welfare payments from me. If there were no basic membership, I would be hitting the *cancel subscription* button. I came in the game around the same time as you. Your not alone in this feeling of the game and its changes. I had a offen have thoughts of the past and how thinghave mangered to get this far so fast. Yes the game is better in the way of things to do, and yes its couch cough more stable (in the most part). Weeky pay was a killer for alot of us and so was rate increases. Money chairs has increase the population ( more likey second third etc copunts for one person). But At what price? well.Walking into a club/casino/or deadhead club where money chair are present. It Really does made the mind think about the good days. PR is what LLabs is banking on. LLabs seems more intersted in creating money chair (dwelling purposes) and off they fly these (QUICK START NEWBIES) with note cards etc. Which they don`t read anyways. Many say this is a trend that will change will it might..........Others says its here to stay but the onces being around the game awhile will tell you you never know what Philip has in mind for us.
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Never Quote People that have no idea what they refering to..It give them a false feeling the need for attention...
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DeForest Shatner
Wecomeinpeace,shoottokill
Join date: 7 Jul 2005
Posts: 5
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12-03-2005 07:39
Wierd & wonderful events?
RacerX Gullwing's Snail Race had to be the most surreal event I've attended in a long time. Great fun was had by all.
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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12-03-2005 14:29
From: Noel Marlowe Since you can rent better quality land than 95% of what you can buy, is there really any reason to own a premium account? Just fund either all your activities through sales (if you make something) or through LindeX. Might end up saving money in the long run. I don't what that does for LL's overall health however. You're me! Actually, I'm still considering upgrading just because i can't get 2000L for $6.00 on LindeX... I'm just not sure I want to commit to a year to get that rate... and i can certainly get more from LindeX at the month-to-month rate. |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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12-03-2005 14:35
From: Forseti Svarog i remember a year ago there were a lot of people complaining that there was nothing good on the events list and that SL was a money rat race with people going to the 100th sexxxxiest whatever contest to win a few bucks that clubs were giving away, or begging posrates to boost weekly stipend. Begging posrates at least forces you to do stuff that makes people interested in posrating you. I'm not sure why the "events" model is really the one that should be used. i've only been to one "event" and I ported out halfway through. I've had much more fun hanging out with people and letting things happen when we get together. Fewer events! More flash crowds! With P2P, that's going to be more likely to happen. |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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12-03-2005 15:03
Maybe the problem is the concept of "events". What I really want is a way to find other people who share the same intrests as me. But since my intrests tend toward the obscure, its difficult to find people through the events listing. Mostly because events require a critical mass of people who want to do the same thing.
Better searching and sorting isn't going to make a difference, nor is restricing what can be posted. The problem is that we really need a different tool. I have no problem now reading through the list of events for a given 2 hour period (which is about the length of time I typically spend in game).
The events listing worked better for me before support was stopped because people had more incentive to host events that were sparsely attended. Clearly no one wants to do that these days and I don't blame them.
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From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
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FlipperPA Peregrine
Magically Delicious!
Join date: 14 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,703
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12-03-2005 15:05
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Peregrine Salon: www.PeregrineSalon.com - my consulting company
Second Blogger: www.SecondBlogger.com - free, fully integrated Second Life blogging for all avatars!
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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12-03-2005 17:44
From: Persephone Phoenix Seems to me, Forseti, that some people a year ago were complaining about people "gaming" the events funding system, but there were also people concerned that once events funding was eliminated that only for-profit events would survive. This has largely happened. Yep, and people are gaming the system even more aggressively. The solution to people gaming an economic simulation with a lot of different elements being simulated is not to eliminate parts of the simulation and put bigger rewards out for gaming the bits that are left. |
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Einsman Schlegel
Disenchanted Fool
Join date: 11 Jun 2003
Posts: 1,461
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12-03-2005 17:45
Hmm funny, how this relates to exactly the same thing as in TV and other things in the real world. Why am I not surprised?
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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12-03-2005 17:46
From: Zuzu Fassbinder Maybe the problem is the concept of "events". What I really want is a way to find other people who share the same intrests as me. But since my intrests tend toward the obscure, its difficult to find people through the events listing. I don't even think the stuff I'm interested in is that unusual. I'm a science fiction fan. SL is science fiction made real. But all I've found so far is individual SF fans and media fans (Trek, etc). |
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Zuzu Fassbinder
Little Miss No Tomorrow
Join date: 17 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,048
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12-03-2005 19:25
From: Argent Stonecutter I don't even think the stuff I'm interested in is that unusual. I'm a science fiction fan. SL is science fiction made real. But all I've found so far is individual SF fans and media fans (Trek, etc). Yes, that's more along the lines of what I'm thinking. The problem with any events calender is that it is discrete in time, 1-2 hours. What would be more useful is something more along the lines of the classified ads. A place could create an entry, like say: Quark's bar Come by and hang out with other star trek fans in a replica of the DS9 bar. but instead of listing the dwell, you could see how many people were there "right now" sort of a hybrid between the classifieds and events. For some of the more popular RP themes there are already places like this, it would be nice if there was a way to get less "mainstream" themes advertised.
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From: Bud I don't want no commies in my car. No Christians either.
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Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
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12-03-2005 21:18
From: Alain Talamasca OK... I read all of this...
As a former event holder, let me offer an insight...
WHAT DO PEOPLE WANT??
When I offered events full of culture(Poetry readings, topical discussions, Art critique groups)... a few people showed up, but not enough to make it worth having every week or even once a month... The event never got all the bugs worked out of it because the attendance dwindled before the event even got off the ground.
I offered events that included dancing and conversation... except for a few select groups indicating they would continue support of said events (And these I keep on the burner for those groups and any others interested in stopping by), most people stop by for a few minutes and then go away...
I offered games and gaming events that were developed simply for the joy of play (The "Haiku on the Fly" contest, Greedy Greedy with the pot turned down low and the rake turned off, etc...) Very spotty attendance....
BUT
When I offered free money... P{Lenty of folks
When I offered free stuff... Plenty of folks
I can't offer the chance for sexball activity, since I am in a PG sim, but the areas that have all that going on are almost always jammed...
Hawt Thawng contests bring people in by the truckloads...
You know why?
Because THAT is what the majority of people in SL want.
They WANT cheap, sleazy, tawdry and FREE!
They want FREE MONEY
They want FREE STUFF
They wnat FREE SEX
Essentially, they want a FREE RIDE through SL.
Can you blame them?
They were attracted to SL because it's FREE...
You draw what you bait for.
LL baited the hook with the word FREE.
A basic account is FREE, and so the ranks of citizens swelled, but the bulk of these newcomers wanted everything free... including the content I sweat over and charge people for (Jewelry, Art, Vehicles, Gadgets)
and if that means they have to play *ingo for 37 hours to get the money to do it, they will.
Eventually, they get bored of struggling to make money, and just start camping out, because it's FREE and the money is easy...especially with the exploit that was there (Is it still?).
Oh... and when using the balls at a free club that draws people from all over to boost the traffic count is also free, then the free sex becomes the main attraction.
Culture is dead not because the Lindens took away the bonus, but because they took away the cover charge, and the riff raff have stormed the gates.
Of course, not everyone on a free account is part of the riffraff, but enough are to drown out the crowd that wants a more cultured second life. Riff-raff? Well, that's not mincing any words, lol. Crowd that wants a more cultured life? Nobody is stopping them. But I would disagree with you about the free account part. Before that, there was the free trial, as well as the basic account for $10 once you decided to finally part with that huge cost of ten whole bucks for a lifetime membership. I don't know how long the basic/premium thing has been in place (since before my time), but I really don't think the difference between paying $10 to be basic then and paying nothing to be basic now is a very big factor in all of this. I think the biggest factor in all of this is people will do what people want to do. Always and everywhere, $10 or no. Some of us may not like some of what people like to do, but there's no way any of us can stop that. Besides, we shouldn't want to. The more people who are happy in SL, the better off we'll all be. Happy basics become happy premiums. Unhappy basics leave. You know, Tringo and naked contests aren't being forced on any of us. The worst thing we have to do is scan over them in the now helpfully categorized events list. I'm a pretty good and fast reader, admittedly, but I have no difficulty at all scanning through these lists for something I would like. So it all really kind of comes down to, "Well, we don't like to SEE those events on the events list." Well, you know, too bad, cause lots of people not only want to see them, they want to attend them. And all of our own lives here, regardless of how cultured they are or what we do with them, depend on having a lot of players to keep this game a going concern. (Plus all those people buy our stuff.) coco |
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Killian Klein
Chicken Musher Pro
Join date: 3 Nov 2004
Posts: 23
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Roll with the punches
12-03-2005 21:55
I think the main reason you dont see a diveristy in events is that the event support was cut. People want to bring in dwell and sure dwell bringers are lately for some reason tringo/slingo/bingo and all the other ingos I forgot. Sex and money is also a big draw for most residents in to an event. So the same lame events are used over and over if you have some sucess with that. I too as a fellow event goer would love to see some new ideas up on the events board.
Zuzu if you are interested in good events please im me in game so we can discuss it more.
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KittyKatt Kerensky
Registered User
Join date: 6 Sep 2004
Posts: 212
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12-03-2005 22:31
From: Zuzu Fassbinder hmmm, what kind of events did I find fun in the past...
Lets see...
Axie Bauhaus used to have great events. no theme, no money, just her zen garden, new age/trance type music and a string of interesting people drifting in and out having conversations on all kinds of strange subjects.
Axie's parties/events were so much fun. She would set an event nearly every day with no particular theme, and ppl would just show up. It was great. and so much fun. They stopped because she left SL, not because of the change in the event structure, but for other reasons. I agree with Zuzu (Hi Zuzu). I miss Axie and her off beat events.  |
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Argent Stonecutter
Emergency Mustelid
Join date: 20 Sep 2005
Posts: 20,263
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12-04-2005 01:33
From: Zuzu Fassbinder Quark's bar
Come by and hang out with other star trek fans in a replica of the DS9 bar. Sounds reasonable. I'll hang out in Callahan's or Munden's instead. But yeh, I definitely think the concentration on "events" was a little looney tunes. |
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Josie McGann
Professional Cat-Herder
Join date: 10 Nov 2005
Posts: 34
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So True....
12-04-2005 23:13
I can really relate to this post. I came over along with several other friends, from another virtual world/game. Of all of us from that group, I'm kind of the "odd duck" as I value most highly in Sl the things that don't relate to the shameless accumulation of Linden $$. I'm at my best in SL when I happen across something that another resident has created merely for the love of it, or when a chance to discuss an intriguing idea or philosophical point comes along.
Now..I can well understand the need for money in SL, but I fear that something priceless may well be dwindling at the expense of a "virtual economy". I see a need for more then just dance-clubs, money-balls and the like.. but to each his or her own.
So, to all of you out there who are still perputrating "random acts of art and beauty"... TYVM & *HUGGS*
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~Josie McGann
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