There should be an outcry about the removal of the forums

Correct. The problem lies in management, not necessarily entirely Philip either.
It simply isn't fair to victimise the employees or volunteers!

Ok, you partialy have me here. I did not read the whole post. Mainnly because when something begins with

"Haven't youy figured it out yet? LL and a close group of players associated with them (known as the FIC) doesn't want the forums anymore, and won't listen to any of us whine about keeping the forums."

I see no point to continue reading.

It's kind of like when I get a call at home that says "Hi my name is (in sert name here) from (insert time share company here), and am calling to tell you you WON a dream vacation"

You seem to be one of those in the camp of making snarky comments about how happy you are the forums are leaving, that they're nothing but a source of whining griping etc etc etc yet said camp seems to feel it necessary to continue trolling in them and posting such replies to those genuinely upset; it's simple enough, if you don't want to be here, why ARE you?

deleted.

on edit: a masterpiece of a joke, really.

Actually you are making assumptions.

I have stated all along that I am happy the forums AS THEY ARE, will be brought down but I feel it is important they quickly replace it with something else for people to voice and share ideas.

Just because someone does not agree with you, does not make them a troll. All I said is that the forums are not very productive anymore, as the used to be. Because of this I do not blame LL for not wanting to keep the expense. It hurts them more than it helps. And then I also state the idea of FIC is absurd.

No, insinuating someone is stupid makes them a troll.

I've known Hank for a while and feel comfortable critisizing him for using the whole "FIC" theory to support a point.

Sorry I hurt your feeling by critisizing Hank.

Wow, removing the forums? I must have missed that. No way!!!!!!!! Dont get rid of them, sheesh, what are you thinking LL?

Credo quia absurdum.

I cried out.





For joy.

There are many Live Helpers (like myself) who don't want to see the forums go. So annoying us when we're just trying to help out really won't send any kind of message to LL.

When SL collapses all the Land Barons will be out the money they invested, so its no big deal. None of this exists in reality, it'll all just go 'poof'.

It's not about annoying anyone. It's civil disobedience. I understand that the volunteers will be caught up in it, but Lindens staff Livehelp too. Take away one avenue of free expression that wasn't disruptive and the only ones left to us unfortunately are; IE, the blog's comments, email, Livehelp, etc etc.

Don't think they won't cash out first though.

This whole business is depressing. Nothing we say will change Linden Lab's mind, so I propose this thread instead be about where the community shall congregate next.

When it's all said and done, where is everyone planning to head?

That's not the mentality I feel we should have. If they won't change their minds and respect the people paying them, stop paying. I know that's difficult for some people to do but ultimately would you rather pay for something you're unhappy with? If they won't treat us with respect stop supporting the product.

Thing of it is, communication is a very basic concept. This is not about the "FIC," the illuminati, or even free speech. It's about putting the dollars and numbers ahead of the customer. This time-honored tactic is proven to ruin any business, simply because those in charge are more concerned with the bottom line than the value the average customer receives.

The AOL analogy still holds true. "Come to Second Life! Hook up to the better-good internet to-dayee!" When what you receive is a locked-in account with paper-thin security and unlimited storage capacity on a system primed to blow at any moment.


In that sense, it's not SL that hasn't scaled very well. It's Linden Lab that hasn't. While I highly respect the folks on the inside that still retain business sense, that number is dwindling rapidly. One-to-one communication is nearly gone, numbers are being placed ahead of genuine concerns, and caveats like "distilled achievables" and forum closure divide the community on a daily basis.

I'm already researching the alternatives. Uni-Verse looks rather promising, seeing as it can already connect several modeling tools to a common interface. These are options the Lindens should have explored long ago.


If it's any comfort, the next virtual world will not be hosted by LL. While they have utterly failed at technical considerations and community-building, they have managed to get people to think about these things and begin investing real effort in them. Given a year, I expect we'll have all migrated to the next one and let SL lie by the wayside. I hope, for their sakes, that the current Lindens are able to find their niche in the next system.

This is all very strange deja-vu for me. You see, for nearly four years I have played one of the only other Real Economy mmorpg games on the market, Entropia Universe. What you are all experiencing right now, we in Entropia Universe, experienced approximatly three years ago. MindArk, the makers of Entropia Universe, made the decision to shut down thier forums. At that point in time, thier forum was almost EXACTLY the same as what I see here. Tons of mistrust, accusations about thier intentions, doomsday predictions.

Three years later they still do not run thier own forum. Moreso, the communication you have with Linden Labs is 100 times the amount MindArk grants its player base even without the forums. The community made thier own forums. The forums that are run by the community of Entropia Universe are a million times better than what MindArk provided. You know why? Because speach is free. Because the players have the power to build what they want out of a community site.

I guess my real point in all of this is that I almost feel as though I can see into the future of the Second Life community because of the history I have experienced in Entropia.

I know it doesn't seem like it now, but, the future looks good. My site is preparing to welcome more Second Life Residents. Without the channel open to the creators of the game we have the ability to have intelligent thoughtfu;l and respectful discussions about a various array of subjects we feel strongly about, including Second Life. Also, we have the ability to put whatever features we like into the site. It belongs to all of us.

Everything will be ok. If history has proven anything to me, it is that passionate people can make great things happen.

While I respect the intent, comparing the scope of Entropia to that of Second Life is rather misleading.

By telling us all to "just go out on the interweb and build it," LL is essentially telling us their system is not prepared for the load. Entropia is a gold-farmer's dream with a futuristic backdrop; Second Life, on the other hand, was targeted to be the "next big thing" in line with Web 2.0, the metaverse, and all that other juicy fantasy stuff.

If your expectation is a really good closed game with a make money mechanic, then yes, it's sensible to let third parties take up the charge. However, throwing away the forums with no clear indication of a proper replacement just doesn't inspire confidence. I read the forums daily; I do not expect to read the Linden blog, simply because it funnels issues through the spin machine first. And while I intend to move to another forum, I do so begrudgingly, due to the lukewarm communication of the devs.


And, once again, it simply isn't about free speech here. It's about a simple failure for the devs to communicate their intentions and execute them effectively. The way they have phrased it -- "Changes are coming to the Second Life forums!" -- highlights this fundamental problem. I do not appreciate being treated like an idiot in the face of what is so obviously an exit plan.

As long as that problem remains, Second Life will limp along until the next big thing eats it alive.

My intent was not to compare Second Life and Entropia Universe as products. They are not similar in anyway other than the Real Life Economic impact.

My intent was to compare the communities and direction each company has taken with regard to thier communications.

My only point is that everything will be ok. I have seen it before and I lived. I also firmly believe better resources and tighter communities will evolve because of this descision.

But it's the decentralization that's the issue. Tighter communities can exist outside with the current forum in place, they aren't mutually exclusive. LL is removing the CENTRAL location.

Not necessarily. If LL provides everything for us then why would we build and evolve ourselves? Maybe they are doing this to spur the community into making the level of fansites that some other games have?

I don't know. I just want to say that I think positive things will come of this. In fact, I know they will...

They aren't. This is CLEARLY PR, it's clear that they're taking away the forum because it's the easiest place to gripe.

It's really hard to say. I can actually offer a contra-example, watching Horizons viciously moderate their forums and IRC, coupled with a flatly criminal billing system. Everything is not okay there.

What I personally take from this isn't "zomg Second Life is ending." Clearly it'll continue to exist for the next few years, overshadowed by the next big thing or not.

Rather, it underscores the shattering of LL's "one world" model. How can they continue to push Second Life as a world with a straight face, when a simple forum had to be shut down for being too unmaintainable?


And again, this is due to a sheer lack of understanding by those in charge. My pitch, for years now, has been to decentralize the entire thing or just stop calling it "like the internet." It isn't, you can't have it both ways, and the "replacing the forums with a blog" is just wrong. Unless this is understood, LL is destined to "the second-class MMOG" category, as opposed to their original plan.

It's junk software that works a quarter percentage of the time it's supposed to. Coupled with the horrible Big Brother management and control issues and I'm just sick of it. It's another frustrating layer to the icing that is my resounding displeasure.