Get Rid Of The Bush Guy

We couldn't survive the forums without you! And Torley of course!

You're in the lead!

Oh right the Bush guy.. Why don't we just put up a lot of signs?!?! And to fund the project we can put the bits of land the signs are on up for huge amounts of cash!

first of all i made the sign a simple black and white sign to make it easy to read. I am not asking folks to buy additional land to put these signs on. all i am asking is to place a single sign on land you already own in a spot that you feel is a good spot for the sign.

and if you have the room you can come and take a copy of the 40 x 40 meter sign and place it 400 meters in the sky above your own land and it will show on the map and not be ab eye sore to any one.

this is a statement to LL that we are serious that many many of us are fed up of the bush signs and want them to do something about it.

i am very serious about this the 15 k i spent on the classified should say that.
you may say that it was a waste of money but i see it as an investment to try and make second life a better place for everyone.

also i may add this is a peaceful demonstration of our outrage unlike the bush sign that some one placed on my land in Gama yesterday that was outright greafing that i am very sorry i deleted and did not report to abuse.

here is a texture for those who think get rid of the bush guy is to strong a message

Hmmmm...wouldn't posting signs to combat signs be somewhat hypocritical? If the signs are such a nuisance, why litter the world with more signs?

i have thought about this my self and you are correct but my hope is LL will get the idea that maybe they need to rethink their position on the bush signs and if they do decided to remove the bush signs then i think that my signs should also be removed in the same manner as his.

The potential problem here is if LL ignore the whole darn lot of you, having made their decision about Lazarus' signs and figuring they can't very well do a U turn. You may spark the birth of a whole new era of mass signs and billboard usage way beyond what we've previously seen in SL once people realise, through the creative actions of protestors like yourself fighting fire with fire, what they can and will get away with.

Same with all these suggestions of how to block the signs from view and such; if people get away with it, I foresee a whole new raft of ways for people to grief their neighbors and their 'ugly builds' becoming commonplace.

I know it's all well intentioned stuff, I just have this horrible feeling it could all backfire badly.

seconded

Kris i hear what your saying and agree with all of it but are we as citizens of this great world just supposed to sit back and do nothing and let the bush guy ruin the experience of many residents just so he can make a buck?

this is what it all boils down to this guy is placing these signs on land to make a profit off of someones grief through the sale of the land at very inflated prices.
we are not talking about a single ugly build we are talking about 100's if not 1000's of plots of land that have these signs on them for the sole purpose to mess up someones view with the hope that they will buy the land at a very inflated price.

and the argument don't buy his land to let this guy choke on his tier may not work. There are 4096 16 sq meter plots in one sim so if he is at the full sim level he can have that may parcels. even if he is only at the 4096 sq meter tire level $25 a month he can still have 256 plots in world plenty enough to make things bad for people and still get people to buy his land who don't know that they should not buy his land. and still be able to pay his tier and make a profit off of greafing others.

Yes it would be hypocritical. But thats the beauty of it, the old "I hate signs" sign. The more noise raised about this issue, the better chance LL decides to find a solution (hopefully a technical one).

Well, like i have said in other threads and have told SL on the phone. They needed to look up a few laws, which they have failed to do so. I have been sick and havent been around very much, but im kind of back a bit and i will be pushing a few issues might i suggest tho if your going to make the sign, dont have it say get rid of the bush guy... it does sound like you want SL to get rid of President Bush ... say somthing more along the Lines of SL Burn the Bush Signs.. or Clean up the Land, Make us Bush Sign Free...

Yeah, but it kinda goes with "building ugly builds to protest ugly builds". It is silly, I admit to putting up signs of my own, but all those extra signs do is upset the neighbors who *live* or work on the sim and have to see them every day. I'm hoping for less pollution myself, why do I want to add to it?

Its a little different with signs that are made specifically to bring attention to the subject. Plus if they are next to the Bush ones, what added ugliness is there? But yes I see your point. However I would hope that the few that tried to raise attention to this would cease the activity once they felt action or no action was truely coming from LL.

I understand completely. I was on the bandwagon for a very long time... I've since decided to ignore it. I actually have not noticed his signs since I started not paying any attention to them.

He's getting all kinds of attention over these signs. Look how many threads there are about it. You'll find many responses from me on the subject, I'm sure. Does Lazarus read the message boards? Doubtful. I don't think he's even posted here.

We're falling all over ourselves demanding LL's do something about "those signs." I understand now why they don't. Regardless of what anyone thinks, it would set a bad precedence for LL to just remove the signs, or to permaban the guy over some signs that just say "impeach bush." It's not like he's trying to crash the grid. He is polluting, but until they put something in the TOS against having 50 signs stacked on top of each other on a 16 sq m plot... he is within his rights to do so.

He is spamming the land sales though, for someone who does *not* want to sell any land, he sure has a lot in there. That could be the loophole, I don't know.

I've only seen a few solutions from residents that could be viable and not break any laws. And we all know what LL's official response is....

What laws, Joy? The law is what LL says it is. Was there a law that said LL will pay landowners if they lost value in their telehub property? Every action done by LL is a judgement call - they could take care of the sign problem if they wanted to.

I was talking in terms of RL laws. Just bein a little silly at the end. Seriously, I do understand how the signs affect people. I think they're ugly, etc. BUT if LL's went through and took them all down or banned the guy because of signs, it would set a very bad precedence. Then they'd have to hire someone to be the "good taste cop" to battle ugly builds.... or a "sign cop" to inspect every sign... you see where this is heading?

I think they should tell him to remove at least some of the signs... but, again, it is his land and he can have whatever he wants on it (no I don't entirely agree with this sentiment, but I'm sure I've made things that other people didn't want to look at either)

And every action like sets a new precedent residents expect LL to adhere to and opens the floodgates. I'm not saying this guy's issue is the same thing - from his description I'd be pretty mad too, but would his first reaction have been to request a buy back from LL if the telehub land buyback offer hadn't been made? He mentions it in justifying his case. And that's the problem. You do it for one and everyone else twists their own situation to fit and kicks up merry hell when LL 'don't apply the rules fairly'. I'm afraid I really can see why they're sitting on their hands on the signs issue. I wouldnt like to be in their shoes for sure

my rules if I was Queen of SL: NO ONE owns more than one parcel of land period. Mall owners could rent linden created small vendors only to anyone selling created items for sale. Then only one sign would exist somewhere no one would notice but his neighbors ..there you happy now? ..heh frankly, im sick of malls of huge pics signs everything crashing my ram out.. use LUNA for godsakes and build a house and a pool and real community on your land..be for real ..oh if I was queen......heh *dreams on*

My first reaction would have been to write the same letter, without the mention of the telehub scandal, in case anyone is wondering. I'm sure I'm not the only one who finds the sale of "protected" land extremely, extremely disturbing and detrimental to the economy. It also makes it appear that LL is "setting a stage" to sell land that wouldn't have been so desirable otherwise (same as the telehub issue with no "twisting" at all), which could be interpreted in the future as RL fraud. That, my friends, is what the buy-back is really about.

About the Bush sign guy, it's wrong, but I can understand why LL is having a bit of trouble finding a solution that would be fair for everyone and not turn SL into a police state.

Joy, they'd have to hire no one. All they need to be is re-active. Does LL have the wherewithal to follow up every single AR? I'm not sure, but probably not. But how about when dozens, hundreds, of users complain about the same issue?

This is not an ugly build issue. This is not a freedom of speech issue. The combination of factors:

100's possibly 1000's of plots
minuscule plot sizes
usurious amounts being charged for his property
the controversial high exposure of his content
spamming the for sale listings

used in his scheme point to a clear pattern of what is going on. It doesn't take an army of LL employees to deal with it.

There's a better way to vote with your money, start buying up all the 16m spots and copy him, plaster the entire SL world with political rhetoric signs on 16m plots and sell them for 10k.

If even half a dozen folks did this it would get attention and be taken care of.

Exactly.

The best solution is a technical one. Give us a tool like the land editor. We open it up, drag the mouse across an area on a sim and then click filter. The area(s) filtered are stored locally on our client and the client simply doesnt render objects/sounds/etc. within that area. Requires no additional server load or data traffic, can be used even if you dont own land and does not trample on anyones freedoms/rights.

Hi Smith. I wasn't getting at you with the twisting thing, you were just a timely example using a buy back request - which really isn't something I've seen up until now, hence my point. But it is what will happen, in my view. And as you say, why I imagine LL are pretty torn on what to do here.

And yes, from your description in your post I'd be just as mad as you are about your situation. That's out of order.

But - it doesn't really matter at this point if well-intentioned people do it, or griefers and extortionists do it, does it?

Because I can just about guarantee you we won't be so lucky as to have only Lazarus pursue this route to fast riches.

coco

I can tell you that I've only been in SL for about 3 months now. And that I have been reading these forums for on and off about that same amount of time. And the one thing I see talked about more then any... ANY other issue is these blasted BIG BLUE Anti-Bush signs.
Granted, many people here have had some great ideas. Not all of them may be nice. Not all of them may seem fair. And certainly not all of them will appeal to all of us as fellow citizens of SL.
So now I too will give my 2 cents. And why not? Opinions are like rear ends so I've been told. Everybody has one. And I have to say I agree that we are all entitled to ours. So here it goes.
Why do we have a BAN option on our plots of land? When if we ban anyone that same person can just come in if we choose to change our locations of living, and BUY our property? We obviously didnt want them to visit our property when we were living there? What makes anyone think we want them to OWN it because we have choosen to move?
Most of you may know that banning someone from you property doesn't stop them from buying it. Which in my opinon is DEAD WRONG! But ok why then even ban them? Makes no since to me to just keep them out if there are other ways for them to grief me besides just being on my property in the first place.
If the real world if someone has a bad reference or bad credit in the case of buying land and other major purchases. That person most likely WILL NOT be able to buy it? So why if we BAN someone that is known or even just to us. Is a bad sort. Why if we choose to move should said person(s) be allowed to buy my property?
I for one dont think they should? If you are going to give us the right to BAN someone please by all means make it include the right to BAN them from the furture purchase of my property as well.
Otherwise there is no real way to stop BAD things from becoming even WORSE!?
Am I the only one who feels this way? If so I'm sorry to bother you all with this rant. But, please if you feel this same way. Do let me know. And if you disagree. Please feel free to give your opinions also.
I really try not to make it a point to be so negative. So if you ever see me in SL. And I'm often there. Please do feel free to just IM me and say HEY! Or even HELLO! I'd love to chat and show you I'm really a friendly sort.

Oh and just so you all know I'm not trying to be mean. Yes, I do realize that by allowing the bans we place on our lots to cover purchases. It could be a bad thing for at least 1 reason. Those that have an interest in HIGH end land dealings may lose the chance to buy some properties too. And, well to that I have to say sometimes you have to take the bad with the good. Not all of us well ever agree on everything.

And, in closing. Yes, I know you are so happy that I'm should have be done long ago. If certain people were banned from a plot of land for sale and they were in the business of buying and selling land. Well in major quantities. I'm sure they could always IM the owner and ask why? And, I'd hope that the owner may have a good reason to give them. I mean its one thing to be KNOWN by everyone for garbage you put on land you own EVERYWHERE? And another to be known for other things that could be to most not that annoying or what looks like you are trying to rip someone off?!

Ok thats enough you all get the idea. Hope you all have a great second life. I'm trying to and so far its been much more good then bad. I just wish this issue would get solved SOON!