Whats up with no Transfer? why?

Everywhere I go I am looking for christmas gifts for friends but it seems like 90% of designers are putting no transfer on their items right along with no copy or modify. I am just wondering why, I am a designer myself and there is no reason that I know of why you have to have no mod/no copy/no trans. I could understand if you give mod or copy but not when you dont have either of those options. I am starting to think I am going to have to make all my gifts because no one seems to want to give the option to give gifts.

I have no idea why designers do that, last year I bought up a bunch of christmas gifts and come to find ALL of them were no transfer, I was so mad, stuff I had no use for either, mens etc...
I dont use no transfer on anything unless I am giving something as a freebie...

One of the reasons, among others, has to do with things getting lost. Like a vehicle, for example—if you can make an infinite amount of personal copies, then you don't have to worry if you get bumped out over a sim crossing or because of someone's home security orb.

Similarly with clothing, you can make copies and put them in different folders for different outfit combos.

Some makers do have gift programs which you can pay them and they'll deliver to a friend. And you can always ask each designer why they made this choice.

I use No Transfer because I kept finding little parasites reselling my stuff for marked up prices. Once better permissions are available, I'll gladly use Transfer, but not until then.

But Torley wouldnt that require having copy? rather than no copy. And I am talkign clothes, jewelry, poofs, stuff like that, like I said I can understand IF they give copy or mod options but a lot of these arent giving anything.

Is there a way, when they give the item to your friend, that it can show up as a gift from you? With all the weird stuff being passed around that can cause MAJOR grid problems how likely are they to accept items from strangers?? I know I wouldn't unless it said "your christmas gift from (insert friends name)"

Yes, that'd be COPY+NOTRANS, as opposed to NOCOPY+TRANS.

I am all for more flexibility with the permissions system.

Torley , I think you are missing what she is saying, she has items that are NO copy NO mod AND NO transfer, and this usually happens when you combine two things with different permissions, for example, if I make a copy/no trans outfit and put it in a NO copy/No Mod Box, it appears in the inventory it is no copy until it is removed from the box, its silly really and another bug I presume...

No, I saw that.

I'm pointing to something additional which has been a corresponding pain for awhile. They really go hand-in-hand.

About your specific problem here, have you used DEBUG PERMISSIONS? That can help.

Regarding gifts, I'd say the vast majority of folks will be happy to arrange gift payment and delivery to the appropriate recipients. Just IM.

Many original content creators do not want their beautiful works stolen. You will even start to possibly see freebies take this same locked down approach, due to the recent problems with them being resold for outrages amounts. This essentially rips unknowledgable people off & serves to financially fund these parasitic people.

Yes, this does make things harder to give gifts, but with things like "Prim Mirroring" out in the wild, peoples hard efforts are being then side stepped for profit. Just search this forum & you will see countless threads about such recently exposed acts & the parties involved.

I will personally be coming out with a product in the semi-near future that will be a workaround for gift buying & lack of secure permissions. It is something very simple, yet I have not seen anyone implement it.

This is why I made my little holiday gift item for the year no copy/no mod but transfer. I'm also selling it at a very reasonable price, in the holiday spirit. I figure, yeah, somebody could go to the trouble of selling it for more, but if they do, well then, that's my little holiday gift to them, too, lol.

coco

you can set things no copy no transfer? wasnt aware.. it makes no sence..

Yes, I was under the impression that that was not possible. An object has to have at least ONE of the permissions set.

I know that sometimes objects show with different perms than what they really have (while in the box or while looking at them before buying them or something). Otherwise, I'd suspect a bug.

See here



The wiki says:

What happens is that a copy/no-trans object has no-copy assets inside it, resulting in a parent object that has both no copy and no trans attributes.

Whenever I make something I try and weigh up what is best for the end user to have.

I will *never* give something with full perms ever again (yes one of my creation funds the 'parasites'), I try and work out permissions depending on the item and what would be most beneficial to the end user:

If I give you copy - you won't be getting transfer. (for some things its useful to have more than one copy - something that is an av accessory, for example - but you can't keep one for now and give another to someone else - or something that rezzes another item - that item will need copy or only ever rez once)

If I give you transfer - you won't be getting copy. (most the time if its not useful to have multiple copies - you can give it away - but only once - nuff said).

Modify I'll put on if I think its usefull for the end user - but never on a script.

IM the creator, ask for a gift version, any and everyone will give you one. I have had people want to give it to the person, so I have changed perms to trans, no copy-no mod, then given the giftee a copy mod no trans version. It doesn't take much time.



Don't like permissions? Complain to LL.

The trick is there is a bug. If you res a no-copy object in world(and not by attaching) while it has no-transfer objects inside, the entire thing will be set no-copy no-trans if you pick it back up. Even if you remove the no-trans item form inside at a later date the no-trans will stick on the parent object. Same situation also works in reverse i think(haven't run into that situation personally, just the first) and this will also happen with no-modify inside a modify object.

I realized this problem with people wanting to buy stuff as gifts, and my Drider Avatars are set to mod/copy/ no transfer, and they come in a self distributing pod that is set to mod/No Copy/ Transfer, so in shot ppl in world can't give the item away nor sell it BUT it can be bought as a gift at SL Exchange.com

I even went as far as making a sign placed right under the vendor with flashing lights that gives the customer a notecard about this issue and also they get a blue box asking if they want to goto my current SL Exchange merchant page for a gift purchase of the item(s).

Btw, I am going to preface the following by saying that many of my favourite designers make items that are no transfer, (love your stuff Jonquille and send folks your way often) however I also want to give feedback by saying that I appreciate the ability to be able to transfer items on to friends or new players when I am no longer using those items very often. It feels like wastefulness to throw items away, so my inventory remains stuffed with no transfer items I never use. Also, especially at Christmas, I am on the lookout for stuff I can easily give without the inconvenience of contacting the creator to ask for a purchased item to be sent to someone. Most designers are in world on a relatively frequent basis, but from time to time, replies have come 2 weeks later, 1 month later or never.

I think folks reselling items are far rarer than folks like me who prefer to pass things along. There is only one instance in which I resell: when items are available at the spa plaza, but I have made them available (for a slight markup) to visitors who enjoy using them. This slight markup reimburses me for the time it will take to buy and replace the item in the love hostels. Consumers may find it worthwhile, however, to have the item immediately at their fingertips (for example, if they have just finished giving a fabulous massage in the Eden room and want to take the massage table home). I do this, by the way, with the permission of the builder/animator (you rawk Tang and Waves. muah).

Imagine if irl we didn't allow for items to be resold for any prices higher than the original value. I'd be goin' shopping for a Stradavarius (hope I spelled that right. I'm too tired to google it to check).

PS. Siggy, I hear you about the full perms on your item, but may I just say that that free hottub made my first month about seven billion times happier than it would have been. i had only 3 items on my first 512: a tower that a neighbour had built and gave me a copy of, a BMW motorcycle (also free) and your hottub sitting outside. Thank you thank you thank you. I'm sorry that folks have used it parasitically, but I can tell you that it made me feel rich when I had no $L at all and no clue how to get any. It even inspired my first attempt at clothing: a primitive swimsuit made inworld with sliders. Probably many folks had similar experiences, and if they have, maybe it would be a good idea for them to convey to you how great that freebie was in their worlds. (Awhile back I rated you for that too, after rates went up to $25, just to show you how special that contribution was to me. Well, me or one of my alts. lol)

Exactly.

Persephone, in a perfect virtual world, (which will never be as it is infested with imperfect humans,) there isn't a designer, developer out there that wouldn't want to give you what you ask for right now.

The problem is, Linden Labs has washed their hands of protecting us from the folks that don't have your morals and standards. We have been told, that any item that permits copy/mod and transfer is implied consent that anyone can copy/mod or transfer/resell for any price and any quantity of that item.

To quote my mother, "You are paying for the sins of others."

Untill LL matures the permission system to allow for more flexibilty to the consumer and allows content creators to protect their intellectual property from being redistributed in an unauthorized manner, it has been put into the hands of the developers to find the happy middle ground and sadly that means someone isn't going to be happy.

I am glad the real world dosn't work like SL. Everyone would have to own a warehouse to store the stuff they don't want. Your made your money so what if somone wants to sell it.

Talk about greed.

Rox

Just about everthing in my shop is No Mod/.No Copy but I do allow transfer. The only things I set to COPY/NO TRANSFER are big ticket item ($L1000 +) because I know the pain of losing your only copy of an expensive item.

I think just about all points have been made... to sum up:

- Designers set no transfer on items they want you to be able to make copies of or avoid losing.

- Designers also use no transfer because they don't like other people exploiting their work.

- If something is set to no mod, no copy, no transfer, then some item in the contents is one of those perms, because you can't set one object to all three.

- We desperately need better permissions.

- Most designers post their permissions on their product (we do), and are happy to pass on gifts for no transfer items.

- I believe both SLBoutique and SLExchange are set up to do gift transfers on no transfer items.

Did I miss anything?

I understand your frustration at having others sell your items marked up, and if they can, then why not? I'm sure the ratio of those reselling your items at a "used" price would way outweigh any of those selling them at a higher price. I frequent yardsales and I haven't yet seen something sold for more than the retail price, always a bit lower.

I don't buy your stuff anymore, I like it, but I don't buy no transfer. Why? Because, sometimes I resell it used and sometimes I drop a nice outfit on a newbie. Can't do that with no trans, so I don't buy it. For clothing, I prefer no copy/trans.

Just my .02