Do we need Push?

This seems to be a problem with grid crashes, but in normal everday second life, do we need push?

It can be fun, kinda. It's moslty used for weapons, but than any real sense of combat is gone when you send someone up past pluto.

So, could LL just get rid of push somehow without wrecking anyone's fun? Assuming that these evil self replicating scripts pushing is really part of the problem.

You're pretty much off track here, the self replicating objects actual effect and purpose is to overload resource resquests in a sim and replicate itself throughout the grid doing the same thing in a very quick period of time.

It has nothing to do with push or anything of the type...its simply designed to overload the resource servers and cause sims to crash.

During this attack I started noticing the objects on my land after I noticed time dialation for my sim was going insane.

I flew up to 400m and there they were, flying around in little circles and spawning.

Not a single one of them pushed me at all.

Some people use push to make silly toys like bouncy springs and trampolines. :/ but i dont use these things so i would like to disable it on land i own.

Oh, I thought J Steins' pushed and that had something to do with it. But like I said, would lack of push hurt anyone, in general.

Like, is it used for anything but griefing? Some weapons have a small, realistic push, but thats not what most people seem to want.

Pushes are a double edged Wepon~

Enough said 美奈子石川

As with anythign in SL, it's use is only defined by your imagination.

Push is used in weapons; true.

Push is used in silly springs and trampolines; true.

How about a realistic hovercraft? Not one using flight but that pushes itself off the ground? Possible? I'unno. Never tried, but jsut thought of it reading here. Might be fun ^.^

Some particle effects also use push to give the desired effect. Push can be used to move phys enambled objects along a track. Uses? Conveyor belts for moving things around, or a slip-n-slide. WEEEEEEE!!!!

SL is as it states "Your world. You imagination." ^.^

~Jessy

Depending on the variant of the script a griefer may add a push or particle lagger or any number of things to the object from what I can tell.

Griefing is the name of the name of the game after all...but the truely dangerous part of these kinds of attacks are in their ability to disrupt service to the entire grid due to overloading resource servers and crashing sims.

Far as push being used for anything but griefing...I can't really say, I don't spend my time in sandboxes I don't even use a push object for my security script I wrote. I just used llEjectFromLand.

Regardless, I'm sure it has some level of benign function, and it does give weapon makers a legitimate product to sell, its not always about grief.

Wouldn't help, and no, they can't get rid of push.

Not sure why people get so up in arms over Push. It's easy enough to get around (sit on something), and the worst it can do to you is to toss you up high in the sky, or over into another sim. It's easy enough to teleport back, or wherever you want to go.

For those constant-push griefer attacks, you can make a little non-physical vehicle, sit on it, and drive around completely unfazed by them.

Land owners already have a measure of control over it via setting their land to "no foreign scripts". It kinda sucks for other scripts, but it is a solution.

Considering that I'm part of a group building a sky city, with the idea of push scripted rings as a way to get up to the city itself...

...Yeah.

There are some legitimate uses of push, and eliminating it wouldn't stop the grid crashes, but...

Push is also a favorite tool fror griefers, and something that I'd gladly do without in order to stop other people from being able to blow me out of the sim against my will.

There are two methods that have been suggested to put a stop to the use of it for griefing. One would allow land owners to shut off push on their land the way that they can turn off damage. The second would give residents a checkbox that they could check that would render them immune to push.

I'm in favor of both of these. Implementing either one would still allow people who still want to play with push to do so, but it would mean that when I'm out shopping, or at home with my partner, I'm not going to have some twerp with a gun come along and blow me into orbit.

If I wanted a combat game, I'd go and play a combat game. I don't though, that's why I'm on SL.

The thing is, that whenever these reasonable suggestions for reducing griefing come up, a vocal minority of people who have some gadget or other that uses push start screaming bloody murder, and drown out the thread.

Neither of these proposals would stop them from making their push using gadgets, and individuals would be able to make their own choice as to wether it's more important to them to be able to use these gadgets, or to be imune from being shot by the ocasional griefer.

These proposals would put the choice with the individual, where it belongs. I see the objections to them as being against allowing individuals to decide what's more important to them, taking away choice, and I'm always going to be against that.

Both of those suggestions would be great.

Aye, they would be fine, as long as the person checking the "NO PUSH ME" checkbox ALSO could not use pushes while checked (and couldn't change the setting without leaving the sim and coming back, for example, to prevent "snapshot" pushes). In addition, land owners can override the settings on their land, if they want a combat zone.

Still, since it is relatively easy to avoid as it is now, I wouldn't see it as a high-priority item.

I'd have to disagree with some of this. I don't want to be zapped by push for making the mistake of flying across a push enabled piece of land.

As for the other thing, I can see how it would be a problem if you're playing some sort of combat game for people to come in with push turned off and zapping people who do have it turned on. But the truth is, that I want to be able to turn off push on myself and on my land because I want to totally opt out of any kind of combat. If someone tries to game the system in the way you mentioned, it's easy enough to put them on a ban list with a security script that auto-teleports them home everytime they show up.

In my opinion, the LL based combat is flat out broken anyway. To have any kind of efective combat, you're going to need to introduce a new form of combat that works through scripted attachments and shuts out anyone who isn't playing using one. This would have the advantage of being able to shut people out of your combat sesions who aren't willing to play by the rules.

As to it not being important, it may not be to *you*, but the fact is that their are a lot of people out there, particularly newbies, who get very upset at being assaulted with scripted objects. I myelf when coming on with a new alt was mistaken for a newbie and attacked by some idiot with a cager when I went to Yadini's to buy the basics. This is the sort of thing that would likely have caused a genuine newbie to leave LL.

Also, people who come in for fashion and socilization and who spend all of the money on hair and clothes, etc. did *not* come in to play a combat game, and *aren't* ging to take being griefed in stride. Even being shot less than once a month is *far* too often, and has a disproportionate effect on how people feel about SL.

Shooting people with "push" is the #1 way of griefing. I just ask to be able to shut it off for myself.

I use push in my pool tables among other things.

I do find it strange that you need to request permission to animate an av, but not to orbit.

How would it work if we allowed avs to not be pushed? Then we may have new griefing. Avs blocking doorways. Avs standing in the middle of the race track where i test bikes.

You can get AR'ed for using push to move someone elses avatar for that anyway. And it's possible to do this sort of blocking *now*. Just rez a prim, sit on it, use the edit controls to change the prims location.

Anyway, if someone pulls something like that, eject them or TP them home. If you don't have land controls to do this, there are security scripts that the land owner can use to allow a trusted list of people to do the same thing.

Do we need push? Do we need particles? Do we need sound? Do we need movement and collisions? Do we need physics at all - what good is physics when you're trying to buy shoes?

How I use push for fun and profit (although I havent made a penny from it yet)...


NOTE: I always get user permission before using any push script on them, or anything attached to them.

1. Build largish box with randomly placed prims at strange angles.

2. Put small .5(3)m cube in box. Make Cube Physical.

3. Have user sit on cube.

4. Shoot Cube with pushgun. Eat popcorn and enjoy ensuing hilarity.


Ok, I know its a little immature, but even those who participate say it's hilariously fun. =)

Good Idea!
Dialog: An Object named "Bullet" Owned by Griefer Dude has requested to push you. Do you accept?

Now I must set this record straight. Particles do not use llPushObject to run. The kindof PUSH they use is a totally different thing. Its totally phantom and does not rely on llPushObject. So even if we could disable push, we would not effect particles at all.

OMG! Another "Impeach Push" thread!!!

*runs and hides*

Interesting suggestion

Hell yes. I use it in a couple of places (including a product I sell) and I've seen people usingit for gravity lifts and the like... it's really cool what you can do with it.

There's a feature vote in progress on this right now, and it would stop just about every abusive use of push, without hurting the useful ones.
This wouldn't help against the people who push physical animals and birds off the grid just for yucks, and would wreck the continuity for people using push in builds.
Speaking as part of the vocal minority, I'd like to point out that not only am I 100% behind the "no outside push" proposal, I'm the guy who originally suggested it.
Unless the landowner can override it, the second proposal would make legitimate uses of push pointless and turn it into nothing but the griefing tool you're making it out to be. You're not giving people a choice", you're limiting them to the choice you think's best for them. "no outside push" lets you vote with your feet, just like you can with damage-enabled land, no script land, no build land, no fly land, and so on...

Bad idea, for reasons stated in another thread.