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Teen Grid land sales prove that the FIC exists

Osgeld Barmy
Registered User
Join date: 22 Mar 2005
Posts: 3,336
12-09-2005 15:18
yes lets teach the kiddies that the world is infact a fair and just place.

Then in a few years when they are out in the middle of nowhere with a flat tire and the only option is a hick garage thats gonna gouge them they will freak out and cry like little babies.

Shit Happens
Life Isnt fair
Sux for you
:)
Cocoanut Koala
Coco's Cottages
Join date: 7 Feb 2005
Posts: 7,903
12-09-2005 16:39
From: Osgeld Barmy
yes lets teach the kiddies that the world is infact a fair and just place.

Then in a few years when they are out in the middle of nowhere with a flat tire and the only option is a hick garage thats gonna gouge them they will freak out and cry like little babies.

Shit Happens
Life Isnt fair
Sux for you
:)

Yeah, you teach YOURS that, Osgeld, and see what fine citizens and upstanding people you raise.

I certainly wouldn't pay a company to teach my child your world view.

coco
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
12-09-2005 16:58
Thank you for answering Coco - I appreciate the time you took to explain your feelings on the matter, even if the original thread starter has ignored my question time and time again.

Also, I really don't think we should be getting up in a tizzy over information that is, at this point, 2nd hand at best.
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Picabo Hedges
Second Life Resident
Join date: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 262
12-10-2005 05:36
From: Juro Kothari
...if the original thread starter has ignored my question time and time again...
...then there is a good chance that I consider your responses and questions irrelevant and personal attacks as opposed to posts that seek actual discussion of the points raised. As such, it's simply more polite of me to not respond to your "blame the messenger" posts.

If you want to deal with the issue of favoritism by corporate entities as opposed to myself and my child, I will be happy to engage you in discussion.

There's no point in continuing to try to bait me into justifying my initial post. The facts are there. A Linden publicly confirmed his own actions. Deal with THAT.

If you don't believe what I reported as facutal, IM him. Then come back and make a post based on non-"secondhand" sources. You obviously don't accept my word. Go to the only adult source that it seems you might accept - the Linden himself. Then deal with the issue --------- not with my reaction to it.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
12-10-2005 11:13
That's rich! Really.

You post something about the Lindens where they supposedly showed favoratism to members on the TG, you complain that it is (somehow, and yes you avoided the question again) threatening the well being of your child, then when others ask you to clarify *how* those actions pose any threat to your child you put a hard stop to your crusade.

Your willingness to dismiss anyone who questions you on this topic or anyone has an opposing viewpoint is very telling of you and your motives.


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Blue Linden
There For You
Join date: 11 Jul 2005
Posts: 3,311
12-11-2005 15:23
Hi guys, sorry I'm late...Just so ya know, NOBODY was prevented from buying a plot in the snow regions on Teen Grid. There are a number of them still available at this very moment that haven't been bought yet. No teens were harmed in the making of this decision.

I would ask that 2nd hand information be verified before being posted, otherwise misinformation and confusion can result. Specifically...

From: Picabo Hedges
For instance, one of the "TG FIC/select" got over 5k of land right in front of the Linden ski chalet.

Untrue. I believe you are referring to Land in an adjacent region, near the vehicle rezzing area near the chalet. There is however, as yet unsold land, available to anyone, directly adjacent to the Chalet.

From: Picabo Hedges
Unlike the land rush to the MG snow sims, many teens just released their current holdings and moved --- literally glutting the land market

Many teens purchaced land in the snow regions in addition to their parcels in the warmer regions.

From: Picabo Hedges
Also, there are apparently a couple of sweetheart deals where certain residents hold land that does not count against their tier.

You are referring to one of 2 things: 1)Regions held by the original 5 teen grid residents who spent several lonely months testing the grid. They were given land so that they would be able to build. 2) An error to the settings in one of the TG Snow regions where the tier was set to 0 and the prims were set to 13 times normal usage. This is because it was originally a protected region used for winter festival on the main grid and has been corrected.

From: Picabo Hedges
It seems that the TG economy/subscription rate has massive problems and the Lindens have no clue.

Untrue. "Massive problems" with the economy or subscription rate have not been documented. In fact, the Teen Grid is growing faster than the main grid had at this stage in its development.

From: Picabo Hedges
Pinkwater Market Stalls are open to Basic account holders only...Premium residents have been told that they should ...get a stall in Oasis

True! In order to help along the burgeoning economy, those without the money to pay for land are able to use free stall space in order to sell their goods. If you have land, you are entitled to a similarly free "Luna" equivalent stall to sell your goods.

From: Picabo Hedges
It shouldn't be too surprising that direct copies of certain clothing and skin products from the MG have surfaced on the TG. Afterall, all it takes is for a transferee to get to the TG with his/her inventory intact, save a few snapshots to his or her hard disk, do minimal photoshopping to fix any anomlies, upload the new skin/texture and a new creator is assigned to the item with barely a trace of what's occured. A young friend of mine has sent me three snaps of $1500Lplus skins that are selling on the TG which look quite familiar.


I believe this is a reposting of a concern that had been addressed. What you are describing is certainly possible by either main grid or teen grid residents, as well as residents of other applications allowing for the upload of content, such as There. If you have information regarding copyright violations please be aware that Linden Lab subscribes to the DMCA, a link to which is posted at the bottom of each page of the web site.

I honestly don't think it's fair that Teen Second Life residents be accused of being MORE likely to engage in piracy than residents of the Adult Second Life. Let's give them a bit of credit please...it should be clear that age does not always denote integrity or the lack thereof.
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Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
12-11-2005 16:35
Thank you for the clarification, Blue.
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
12-12-2005 03:46
From: Osgeld Barmy
yes lets teach the kiddies that the world is infact a fair and just place.

Then in a few years when they are out in the middle of nowhere with a flat tire and the only option is a hick garage thats gonna gouge them they will freak out and cry like little babies.

Shit Happens
Life Isnt fair
Sux for you
:)


For God's sake! Do some people post merely to take a contrary view?
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Selador Cellardoor
Registered User
Join date: 16 Nov 2003
Posts: 3,082
12-12-2005 03:49
Thanks for your reply, Blue (late as it was *cough*), and I am glad the serious allegations are unfounded.
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Picabo Hedges
Second Life Resident
Join date: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 262
12-12-2005 06:38
Concerning Blue's response. First, I appreciate the fact that he reponded.

This is nothing against Blue. I have no reason to believe he is being deliberately misleading in his responses - just as I have no reason to make "baseless accusations". I simply take a different perspective of the things my kid has shown me and the fact that I have no reason to take the most LL-supportive perspective when interpreting these things.

1. Never said there was direct harm to any teen - IRT the tongue in cheek first line comment he made. Down the line impact related to this favoritism is what I am concerned about. (No one is directly harmed by Brown and Root for instance and many get rich from their actions -- still, there is huge resentment about their favored status with the current US Administration.) I think "the well" has been poisoned by this snow sim land favoritism.

2. Info gleaned from directly watching over my kid's shoulder and looking at things like the Map myself cannot be considered 2nd hand info. BTW, About Land doesn't lie, does it? If not, then what I said about the land across the parking lot from the chalet stands. Since I am not on the Teen Grid myself and can't check it, Blue might be correct about sim borders and exact distance/location down to the meter --- however, whether or not a sim line/border is involved, well, I don't think that actually matters since the mall in question is where it is in relation to the chalet. The response was not directly on point.

3. Some teens buying land in addition to what they had does not invalidate my point that a number of teens simply released their previously owned land and moved. Only LL has the exact numbers and I am certain they don't care to release them, nor do I expect them to. Still, a cursory glance at the main map while my kids was preparing to teleport was the impetus for the comment about the amount of public land up for sale when I began this thread. Even she commented that she hadn't seen such a large amount of unclaimed/unsold PUBLIC LAND before. And unless LL is monitoring private or Group IMs, Blue obviously would not know of the number of IM's with "please come buy my land for $1/m before I just release it so I can move to the snow sims" that flew around that day. Heck, I don't know either. I do know that it was significant enough for my child to mention it to me. Put the above together yourself and coome up with your own conclusions.

4. Sweetheart land tier deals - sorry. I was not referring to those you mention, Blue. My kid was directly shown what I descibed, land which does not count against tier using snaps of another resident's My Land/About Land - and I am fairly certain it was not the 5 teens you refer to nor was it in the snow sims AFAIK. It's possible it was an alt of one of those 5, but I do not know that.

5. Economy problems - lol. Great, then you personally are sending mixed messages to some of the teens based on chat logs I was shown by my kid. The general reason you gave in at least four conversations about this favored treatment/snow sim land reservation was to stimulate growth ---- something that would not have to be done if all was well. Other times you have also old one or more TG residents that the LL is losing money running the TG. That is directly related to economics on/of the grid. Your words, not mine or my kid's.

Directly related to how I know Blue said that is that the guidance that I have given my kid on keeping/showing me chat logs includes "WHENEVER a Linden Liason/employee is around, copy and save the chat history to a text file every 5 minutes". This way we can both discuss what she is directly told or personally overhears coming from the Liasons in order that we can compare it to the PR/advertising and the TOS. So, that's that as far as I am concerned. Of course, you can present some other statement here and explain the difference if you want. I don't expect it to happen.

Still, what I originally posted about is of concern - admitted favoritism by a specific Linden months after the TG went from Beta to production. Whatever the reason, it occured and that suggests that it probably will occur again in the future. Favoritism breeds distrust which in turn affects positive interpretations of player experiences by those who see it happening "from the outside" --- which is the case for most of the residents in that they are not part of the "inner core/favored". They dont even have to desire the specifics of the "favored treatment" for their experiences to be tainted when observing such treatment. For instance, they may not be ABLE to increase their tiers for whatever reason. Still, knowing that certain residents have received favored treatment from LL/specific Liasons can easily affect the kid's outlook and attitude.

Take this entire thread for what it's worth. I guarantee that your mileage will certainly vary from mine based on your personal investments in SL, your family, your wallet, etc. Some will come to LL's defense. Others may sit back and actually think about what I wrote and reach conclusions that are neither mine nor in total agreement with LL/Blue's response. I am comfortable with what I have said and my motivation for bringing it to these forums.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
12-12-2005 12:00
From: Picabo Hedges

1. Never said there was direct harm to any teen

From: Picabo Hedges
I have no clue about whether or not you have a protective bone in your body - and couldn't care less. However, when something threatens the well-being of my kid, I get concerned. What happened on the TG, as a direct and deliberate decision of a Linden, did that.

From: Picabo Hedges
...I'll take that garbage from a 20-something without kids and put it exactly where it belongs.. in the trash. Grow up and live a bit before you tell anyone what is or is not going to affect their kids.

When its your kid, then you can be concerned or not. I'll choose what to be concerned about when it comes to mine.


From: Picabo Hedges
Take this entire thread for what it's worth.

A steaming pile of poo, but that's just my opinion.

From: Picabo Hedges
I am comfortable with what I have said and my motivation for bringing it to these forums.

Ahh, yes, motivation - what was it again?
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Picabo Hedges
Second Life Resident
Join date: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 262
12-12-2005 12:24
From: Juro Kothari
Ahh, yes, motivation - what was it again?
Obviously yours is simply to troll. Here's hoping you enjoy the sun when you finally pulling your head out into the light.
Juro Kothari
Like a dog on a bone
Join date: 4 Sep 2003
Posts: 4,418
12-12-2005 13:52
From: Picabo Hedges
Obviously yours is simply to troll. Here's hoping you enjoy the sun when you finally pulling your head out into the light.

No trolling, Picabo - but seriously interested in a couple of things:

- what is your motivation?
- how this would negatively affect your child?
- are any of these accusations true?
- was there miscommunication in what actually transpired?

Of course, some of these you can answer and others you can only speculate on - I'm hoping that you can answer what you can. The Lindens should be (hopefully) very aware of the negative light cast by any acts of favoratism and while I personally don't think they would have taken actions in such a manner, stranger things have happened.
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Picabo Hedges
Second Life Resident
Join date: 12 Nov 2004
Posts: 262
12-12-2005 15:49
From: Juro Kothari
No trolling, Picabo - but seriously interested in a couple of things:
- what is your motivation?
- how this would negatively affect your child?
- are any of these accusations true?
- was there miscommunication in what actually transpired?
I've already answered every one of these questions earlier in this thread. Apparently trolling doesn't require close reading skills.

Edited to add this found on the Second Life Herald site....apparently quoting Blue's forum post in the TG forums.
--at 10:25 p.m., Blue Linden appeared on SL’s teen forum with a surprising admission.--
From: someone
As you probably realize, the Teen Grid is not profitable…it would be nice if Linden Lab was a charity, but it’s a business. Because Second Life is free, the only way we make a profit is to sell land. As it happens, land sales on the teen grid are very low. So whenever there is a board meeting and the investors are in the building I get nervous and wonder what we could possibly do to encourage people to buy more land. This is not the fun part of the job, obviously.

We try to make it as easy as possible for residents to own a whole sim, but realize that it’s prohibitively expensive for teens to do so. I thought I should at least attempt to make it easier for teens to buy large plots of land, and in doing so receive the same concierge support that private estate owners receive. I looked up the top land owners and offered some of them the opportunity to reserve some land while we were setting up new regions. If we were able to sell enough land it would make sense to add new regions specifically for large landholders. People could get as much land as they wanted, receive the same treatment, in a scaled way, that MG estate owners receive, and the TG would grow faster. Everyone gets more right? Good idea?

Bottom line? It wasn’t a good idea.

It didn’t result in the sale of one entire sim, and people have been more upset than I’m willing to accept as ‘growing pains’. We won’t be doing that again. I’m sorry if it came across as favoritism and not a hard look at the numbers of the teen grid. I’m VERY sorry if anyone felt personally neglected in the way the choices were made. I’m MORE than happy to talk to anyone 1 on 1 about it or have a community meeting regarding the way we add regions to the teen grid. We’d like the grid to be something that every resident, parent, Lindens and investor agrees is worth every penny.
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