Is Second Life a game?

Actually that's not true at all. It's really very easy to see one or more trees when you are in a forest. I have been in forests many times, and each time I was in a forest, I was able to to see trees. In fact, seeing a lot of trees is of the tip-offs that you are in a forest. If you look around and see trees everywhere in all directions you are probably in a forest, although you might be in the tree department of a really big plant nursery, maybe one with mirrors on the the walls to make you think you are in a place much bigger than what you are really in, a place as big, perhaps, as a forest.

Who the heck are you quoting? That's not in this thread.

Who the heck are you quoting? That's not in this thread.

I am six giant clams, and only one of us has feet.

The best part of SL (just like the Web) is that it is what you want it to be. If you want to look at SL "as a game", that's fine. If you wish to look at it as a 3D chat environment where you can get lots of socializing and entertainment, that's fine as well. If you're using SL as a platform for educational purposes and training opportunities for RL companies/entities, you can do that as well. And if you see it as a new form of e-Business, you can also thrive and have success that way.

This is where I have a problem. Playing games within SL IS fine and fun. But looking at SL itself as a game implies a removal of all responsibility on the part of the 'player' to take anything seriously at all, including other peoples feelings.. after all, it's "only a game".

If you argue that you know full well that each av is controled by another human being and you do care about their feelings, then you are conceeding that SL is more than a game and not simply a place to shoot up NPC monsters and when you're bored you just turn it off and go to bed with no harm done.

chill, Pen. it's just a game

Counterstrike has avatars controlled by other players. I care about their feelings. Right after I blow chunks of their flesh across the walls.

Gwyneth is talking about the World Wide Web, not the internet. BIG difference.

Internet, collection of hardware connected together with cables (or today wireless links)

World Wide Web, Collection of servers interconected together by the internet (see above) for the purpose of sharing documents which relate to each other via HTML.

The starting concept for the internet being to link together the mainframe computers of a handfull of US Universities in a 'stable' manner that defeated the problems of an un-stable telephone network.
The starting concept of the WWW being to link together text documents via 'magic links' between documents that could be both on the same hard drive or several computers on opposite sides of the world.
SecondLife, just as WWW and FTP and SMTP (email) and NNTP (newsfeeds) and VoIP (telephoney) and all the other protocols uses the internet as an information transportation system. Does this make the internet a game? I don't think so.



This is where I have a problem. Playing games within SL IS fine and fun. But looking at SL itself as a game implies a removal of all responsibility on the part of the 'player' to take anything seriously at all, including other peoples feelings.. after all, it's "only a game".

If you argue that you know full well that each av is controled by another human being and you do care about their feelings, then you are conceeding that SL is more than a game and not simply a place to shoot up NPC monsters and when you're bored you just turn it off and go to bed with no harm done.

The point most people miss is that how something is categorized is not dependant upon, nor does it require the agreement of Linden Labs or even you, you poster, you!

When comparing item X to the world in order to determine how to classify it, one looks for the closest 'match' between item X and something else in the world. This is known by a technical name, 'Pattern Matching'.

It does not matter how many differences between Item X and the world exist UNLESS any one of those differences mean it is a closer match to one thing than another.

So all the distinctions about what SL does or has that 'a game' doesn't or haven't are, frankly, moot.

SL has more things in common with MMO games than not, therefore by industry standard (i.e., online entertainment, marketing, business sector, etc.) as well as by basic reasoning (which I fully understand is neither basic nor reasonable for most), SL is consistantly determined to be.... a game.

The things that Linden Labs consider 'different enough' to warrant SL being categorized as something else do not fall far enough outside the boundaries of 'a game' for anyone in any of the abovementioned areas to change their thinking about 'what SL is', and this alone is why SL is still considered 'a game' in these areas.

In general, people tend to label things based upon whatever previous experience with things *of that type* they have.... which is another reason why SL is considered a game, it is not different enough to stand out from that typecasting -- OR -- that which makes it difference is not communicated well enough or consistently enough for others to reach the same conclusion.

Differences do not have a meaning in the minds of consumers or the industry or business world in general to afford distinction in meaning (and acceptance of it as 'being different) unless they are obvious and more than 'potential' or 'ideology'.

So we can argue whether it is or is not 'a game' all we like, but the simple fact that we are here means we are the very least likely to be in a position to affect/change how it is considered... especially amongst one another.

And oh yeah -- Happy Friday.

Playing games within SL IS fine and fun. But looking at SL itself as a game implies a removal of all responsibility on the part of the 'player' to take anything seriously at all, including other peoples feelings.. after all, it's "only a game".

If you argue that you know full well that each av is controled by another human being and you do care about their feelings, then you are conceeding that SL is more than a game and not simply a place to shoot up NPC monsters and when you're bored you just turn it off and go to bed with no harm done.

Maybe it would be fun to display some different packaging and marketing schemes for "the Second Life game".

A set of Second Life playing cards, maybe some Second Life tarot cards - a Second Life board game - "go directly to Jail - do not collect your stipend" - some photoshop work should be capable of producing some Second Life inspired professional sports teams.

People can browse night and day on the Web and never come across things like Amazon, eBay, or even the Wikipedia

I see a couple problems with the above statement. One is that all the online games I've seen so far have some behavior rules that do, in fact, take in account that the other players are real human beings, and that even though it is a game, you have to be careful about your behavior. Asking that people remember that the other players are real people doesn't stop the experience from being a game, and doesn't make SL any different than other online games.

Second, I think it would have a chilling effect to emphasize the notion that players shouldn't treat SL as a game, but instead should treat it seriously. SL seems to me to be a play environment that invites the new user to assume an alternate identity, change appearance to something completely different at a whim, go teleporting and flying around a world of whimsical, bizzare, buzzing confusion, and generally have a good time. For some, the fun includes assuming a completely different personality, as in roleplaying.

Second Life is OH MY GOD THE TOILET'S STOPPED UP!!!!1

Oh, wait, the toilet stopping up is not Second Life, the toilet stopping up is just the Welcome Area.

I never knew anybody who would ever think of the WWW as a game, either, or ever heard anybody claim that.

Very well stated!

Also, when people try to affect changes in SL based on the fact that they believe SL is a game I view that as a serious issue. I do not think that when it comes to important aspects of SL, that anyone should approach it as if it were a game. The consequences of that can be horrid in mind. And when I see someone of this mindset trying to offer input because it is better for the "game", I will take that opportunity to explain why SL is *not* just a game.

Enabran's Favorite Games:

- Walking dogs at the beach
- Looking at turtles
- Reading Cats in Sinks