Your SL Business Name is not Safe!!!!!

I just did a search for Gypsy Moon which says something like "Gypsy Moon by Katykiwi Moonflower (TM).

I was expecting a big business but instead went there and it just looked like someone lived there at first galnce and then had to reaaaallly look hard to notice two tattoos for sale. BIG FLIPPING DEAL. I'm dissapointed.

Katy, since you are such an avid believer in trademarks and originality, why don't you start being original?

I seriously want a refund for time wasted thinking I was going to go to some cool store

I'm going to build a store and label it Gypsy Moon and I dare you to come get me Katykiwi

tax free too! although I'm sure that you, being an officer of the court and a member of the bar somewhere, always pay your taxes and report your SL earnings every year.

What a beautiful thread to end the forums with. I've enjoyed the convoluted evolution of this thread more than any other in over two years. Thank you all involved

It's just a fewking game! Oh, wait! It's not! It's just a fewking life!

I had already researched it before I posted, thankyou - I was referring to the Caligari Corporation - which is a large 3d CGI based company which is sort of in the same game.

I also mentioned it tongue in cheek as I have no intention of trademarking anything - someone wants to use Caligari - feel free - I am not the only Caligari in SL.

Hmm..should I use the name Gypsy Moon or Gypsy Sun?

Regarding the patented item somebody mentioned:



So a patent in SL doesn't really do anything - or, rather, you can sue technically sue someone over your patent in SL, and I imagine LL could be forced by subpoena to give the necessary details, but when you come back home from the courtroom your SL account is gone.

This might seem a bit harsh but I think there are good reasons for not allowing patents in SL.

With a shop with two tattoos? Wow! What is your secret?

BIW im a urologist in rl, i get to see them in all sizes all day while all the rest of you drools over a prim one
True, i promise!

Another voice of reason. Thank you Mr. Metropolitan.

Yeah but do they flex ? Hmmm ?? How about the HUD inyourface ? hmmm ??

08-25-06 8:47pm Katykitty wrote this on the sl forums

"With all the actual copying and accusations in SL being raised over the past few months we have become a paranoid and hostile community and no one is exempt from falling victim to these very human feelings.

There is a saying that goes "there is nothing new under the sun," and I think we need to remember that in SL and try to regain the feelings of community and perspective that we once shared. I know I am working on that!"

/108/1b/132697/1.html Topic Name Content, Ripoffs and Originality. Nutshell version for those who dun wanna clicky over... What to do when someone (content creator) has the same idea as you. To this gem it translates, OH NOES!!! Someone used the same common name that I did.

I guess the attempt to regain the feeling of community was a no go huh?

By the way, love hypocricy too.

i didn't get to read all of this but from what i did there are some things that people are forgetting. Though you own the items in game, technically Linden Labs holds the right to delete or do what they want with your creations or money. All in all they own it.

As far as business names go, that name in the US needs to exists as registered in every state in order to protect it. A ficticious name (as most places call it) is only protected within the state(s) registered not the whole country. Unless your SL business is registered in RL and has a Federal EID and other documents and IDs, i don't see you ever getting anywhere with this case.

More than one business can have a similar name. Just as long as you no way mislead the consumer that you are the business that you share a name with.

I doubt any court would even hear a case that involved a FAKE BUSINESS that is in a VIDEO GAME. Even with the L to USD. The exchange is nothing more than a localized ebay for L. People trade gold and currency in other games as well not just SL.

Not true...

From: http://www.businessknowhow.com/startup/trademark.htm


So why do you think it needs to registered in every state? That would require filling out forms for each state and paying fees for each when you can just pay 1 fee for a national registration.

If you are like "some people" in SL and are bringing in thousands of US$ per month by playing this GAME I bet the court WILL hear your case. And not all buisnesses in SL are FAKE. When people start making XX amount of money, it's no longer a fake game.

So if they are making all this dough and you come along and threaten that by using their trademark or something...you don't think a court would hear the case? Please.

true.

I know of a business that purposely goes to small shops just starting out and finds some cool toys to pass off as their own. How I know that it's no coincidence is that at least three people have come out of being modest about it and spoke about how a month after they put their item up, the SAME person who owns a big store in SL came out with it. So that big owner gets the profit, gets the you are so brilliant remarks and the oh he came out with it first yadda yadda.

He could at least give credit to the person he intentionally ripped off to boost his own ego and profit while their small shop suffered.

The person makes great stuff don't get me wrong but now I question...where did that really come from and who did he step on to sell it?

yeah but can she afford to enforce it? legal fees will kill most small businesses

Has anyone even established that all of the business laws being tossed around apply to businesses that exist solely with SL? I can't imagine there is much legal precedent of businesses formed in a virtual world dealing in a virtual currency.

From a post above


I know of one person -- she sells a portrait/photography studio and she knows who she is and can identify herself here if she feels like it -- who has gone to the trouble of patenting her product. When you buy her product, you get a notecard telling you the product has been fully patented and you get the patent number. Now THAT is the way to do some biz. THAT is the way to protect yourself.


As far as I was aware - there was a big hoo-ha about it in the news some years ago - you cannot patent software ( at least not where I live - don't know about the states )

You can patent the methodologies used in the software ( eg Corel patented their tracing algorithm, Adobe patented their encryption/coding system, and microsoft patent all sorts of bits and bobs in windows )

You can patent the invention itself if nobody has ever thought and written of it before ( and I mean nobody - there was a case many years ago when a remote controlled cat-flap patent was denied because the "Beano" had run a cartoon on the same subject 10 years before )

You cannot patent the actual code as it is made of existing elements that you have no ownership of - that would be like attempting to patent a piece of text or the alphabet.

You can of course copyright it - but that is a different story with different laws.

[edit]
Also if this person has a patent number, as mentioned - I would be very interested to see it's validity and nation of origin, as they normally take a year or more to be processed - hence the reason you see lots of "patent pending" on products - which would mean this patent was applied for some considerable time ago ( years - not months )

I think you can patent software in the US, although whether or not this would be relevant isn't quite clear (although LL is in the US they aren't the ones potentially breaching the patent).

But as I mentioned above, a patent would not be relevant anyway, as under the Second Life Terms of Service, anyone who registers a patent on something in Second Life is required to offer a free license to all Second Life players to freely use all the patented IP fror any purpose.

I believe that you will find that algorithms are patented, the source, object, and distributable binary codes are all copyrighted. That's just my opinion - it's not legal advice and I am not a lawyer (I need to make a macro for that.)

Now, this is my opinion, I am not a lawyer, and this is not legal advice.

'virtual' means nada. I think that, at the least, united states law applies to everything that occurs in Second Life up to the point that the TCP traffic leaves the country. *waves hands* The least that could be considered as happening in Second Life is bartering, which is still trade, which is still subject to intra-and-interstate commerce law. No business 'exists solely within SL' because according to the law, business (commerce) occurs between two legal entities - those legal entities being humans / llc / corporations / NPO's / whatever. Those entities do not exist solely within SL - they merely use it as a means of communication and facilitation. Saying that a person or business exists solely within SL is like saying the ghost in the machine, or that a person exists entirely inside the phone system.

When an AI occurs, /then/ we have to redefine all of that conception.

*grins*

I think you're right, but the TOS still says that any patent rights you have on anything you upload to SL must be equally given to LL and to all other users as well. So although the patent is really on the algorithm rather than the code, by uploading the code to SL, you must license the patent rights on the algorithm because you exercised those rights by writing the code. I think that's how it's intended, anyway, since that's not legal advice either and I'm still not a lawyer and can I have a copy of your macro please?

There isn't. In fact this is all pretty new and that what makes it problematic, but not for the reasons you might think. In general most law, expeciallyregarding contract, is pretty transparent and applies in situations whatever the medium comminication. A contract is a legally enforceable promise whether its made over the internet, over the phone or on a golf course. What makes the promise a contract is the presence of consideration-a contract is bargained or exchange.

Now the law simply looks for the presence of consideration, not its worth (well there are exceptions but thats not relavent to my point). Thus the fact that its a linden and not a dollar, does not alter the courts persective..as long as the consideration has value to both parties, a contract is formed. So a contract to be paid in lindens is perfectly valid, and really requires no special precedent to be adjudicated by a court.

The rub is that SL is not simply a common carrier, like the telephone or the in ternet. SL is currerntly a game run by LL. LL controls access (which they are changing), LL controls the names of the users, and LL controls the currency. Thus the resident of SL are very largely hampered in conducting business, and protecting thier legal interests by the fact that in SL we do not know what legal person we are doing business with.

Thus LL, as creators of the game of SL are in the best position to administer and enforce policy issues relative to the grid. LL makes it clear they do not want to play that role. Yet they cannot provide an answer for how that role will be played. The Gaping hole in Kapors address was the concept of ordered society. Kapor confirms its necessary, and then brushes it off as something that can be worked out later.

Philip takes the position that the residents will work all this out among themselves, and that some groundswell of popular opinion will control griefing, protect intellectual property, and allow the smooth conduct of busniess. Well that simply is not going to manifest in an evironment where residents trust everything to LL and don't trust other residents.

LL likely expects redidents will form some sort of business name registry and some form of Ip protection. I am certain they would welcome some sort of virtual judicial system. But without mandatory participation, such resident efforts will be curtailed.

It is perfectly logical for SL to amdinister an in-world business registry in connection with its account record keeping. That way a person seeking to avail themselves of the courts, can determine the name and relevant jusrisdiction of the person with which they have a dispute.
It is also worth recalling that if you are doing business anywhere, under any name other than your own, you must register a ficitcious business name in your county. Typically, if an FBN is not registered, you cannot appear in court, and thus cannot sue, or cannot answer. If you cannot answer you will be defaulted.

In general Katykiwi is right, there is nothing the prevents me from setting up a store in SL and calling it CMFF, or Nomine, or whatever else. The only recourse is the courts, and unless you are prepared to spend a lot of money (like $40-100k on legal fees) it would be very very hard to to enforce. LL is in a position to do it realtively easily. In RL we have a substantial government and sophisticated legal and judicial system to help up eforce IP and contract laws, as wess as anit haraasment laws etc.. In SL we have LL, the way things are currently set up.

thus we are in limbo: no in world administration, and yet we are barred by privacy policy from availing ourselves of the RL courts.