Is LL protecting Impeach Bush because they're thinking of bringing in billboards?

It's only infringement if the protesters are put in a cage 2blocks away from the place where the event they are protesting goes on like what happened with the DNC.

I think Nolan is right on the money. This isn't about protecting billboards, it's about protecting all of our rights to do as we please on our own land. Some people are just going to be asshats. As others have already noted, that's the price we pay for our own freedom of expression. They may very well be intended as extortion, but if you can be extorted by a simple sign, or can't stand to have one near you to such a degree that you feel compelled to campaign for its removal, doesn't that say far more about you than about him? It's a prim with a texture on it with a rather benign political statement. It's not yelling rude things about your mother. It isn't pushing you down, kicking sand in your face, and then stealing your lunch money. If the guy wasn't getting such a rise out of people he'd probably have gotten bored with it already.

This analogy doesn't quite hold for a number of reasons:

1. signs of corresponding scale likely would violate zoning code
   
2. even if they didn't violate zoning code, if they were annoying enough, neighbors would likely be able to cause the zoning board to hold a hearing (i.e. annoy you back)
   
3. local zoning boards have pretty wide de facto license to declare your sign a violation (yes, you could appeal, and maybe win, is the cost and annoyance worth more to you than having a magistrate overturn the board which costs them almost nothing)
   

My intuitive proof is that there are many passionate people in RL but a corresponding lack of 10m plywood signs.

My anecdotal evidence is having been asked to a couple of zoning hearing by some concerned neighbors where the code was stretched like taffy to stop an undesired build. Had the board not ruled against the build, the very decent opponents would likely have exerted strong social pressure on the requestor.

None of these factors obtain in SL.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

Gabe let me begin by stating no offense was intentded in any way. We simply have opposite viewpoints since I absolutely refuse to as I see it allow myself to cave in to the pressure of a land exortionist. I personally feel this simply encourages them to buy more small plots and continue a practice I find abhorent.

I suspect in the beginning before all the publicity he did sell many of these plots as people quiety got rid of a problem. Now with publicity sales have likely slowed down. But in exchange he gets attention and a sense that he has affected his world. He is not going to stop as long as he gets this attention and the occasional paycheck.

My personal approach to these is 2 part
1. Don't buy the land
2. AR if the sign pokes one splinter onto your property (who knows maybe enough ARs will pile up the Lindens will give him a permanent vacation)

That's right Chip. Anyone who buy one of these plots, is more obsessed by their own vanity more than respect for other's rights to do what they wish on their own land.

I don't like the signs anymore than the next person, but I will NEVER be compelled to buy one at an inflated price. Gouging yes, extortion no. I would rather have a hundred signs around me, than to have no freedom of expression. I can always move.

I see some validity in Nolan's post about land value on the grid vs islands.

BTW, FYI, I had some prim lots I was holding back because I didnt want them on the market for him to buy. I have been offering them to the neighbors for free. My tier was becoming strained, so I marketed them and he has not bought a single one in the past few weeks. Either he has packed his tier, or is letting up on his cruel game. It remains to be seen.

That's been around much longer than 2001. It's why, when the Klan comes to town, they are restricted to one place, say, the courthouse steps, and only Sunday from 2-3 p.m., rather than being allowed to parade down the streets at noontime Wednesday. It's been around for ages and has nothing to do with the Patriot Act.

Yes, Lordfly, I had the class in college. I know a good deal about it. The fact remains: government can place restrictions on some form of political speech. Even more on commercial speech. That's just the way it is *shrug*

That's a horrible attitude.

Hear those goose-stepping morality soldiers outside? That's just the way it is. *shrug*

No, actually I don't hear the sound of goose-stepping. And I don't always fear there's a bogeyman under the bed, either.

I think what's really going on here is that a political statement is being made to illustrate to all of us what zoning will be like once P2P is implemented.

<ducks>

And the Godwin Prize for this thread goes to...

Overliteral interpretation of the Constitution whilst ignoring a few hundred years of judicial interpretation is a good way to be wildly wrong - adding the goose-stepping was a wee bit over the top.

You may find this introduction to the complexity of the topic useful. And do remember, Second Life is a game and Linden Lab is not sworn to uphold the US Constitution.

No, I do not see it this way Blaze because LL can tell us not to do something, and it does not mean they can not. If they want to generate revenue by puting advertisments up, they can do so no matter what they told us. We are all just paying memebers, not on the board of directors.

We're not?

OMG!

I mean come on Beau! I always get into my local dept. store's business practices!

I don't like several of the things they do businesswise - in fact, I stand in the middle of the store and complain rather loudly all the time.

I am and was outraged, but I keep going to that store.

This isnt an issue of free speach, your all forgetting one thing. The land that all this is being posted on is NOT his home. It is land that he is offering up for the public to purchase. If all this nonsense was built on his home plot I would say sure, knock your self out. But, this is quite different. All these plots may be under his name, but they are not his home, they are, for a lack of beter terms, end comsumer products. I would go as far as to say its like a non flexible comodity like gasoline stattions forceing you to put a pro-nazi sticker on your car when ever you want to buy gasoline.

Mr Impeach Bush is *not* giving up, nor is he reducing his activity. I've been watching his signs on the march towards a sim I have land in. They have this week crossed the border, and are now right next to my property, including the bizarrely high land prices.

Someone told me that you don't have to pay tier on land that is for sale. Is that true? If so he will have almost 0 tier to pay.

Whether you agree with the politics or not, and whether you are hard line for free speech or not, the fact is that a large number of people find the *disproportionate* amount of these signs, their size and height, detracts from the overall SL experience. Of course political signs exist in RL but I've never seen suburb after suburb, town after town, entirely carpeted with them, towering over residential blocks.

This is the part of SL that *isn't* proudly touted in LL's advertising. Several newbies I knew bought land, but sold and quit SL because of them, saying LL are defending the practice of 'mass visual spamming'. That may not be their intent, but it's how the spread of 'impeach bush' all over the grid is seen by many.

As for my views on it - I agree with free speech, while I also see why people want to address what is widely regarded as an abuse of the spirit of LL's hand's off approach.

I agree with the suggestion that for our land we have an option to turn off rendering of prims from a certain block, or certain coordinates. After all, we can already restrict sounds to local. This way he can still have his free speech, and neighbors can have their view back.

cheers

That is NOT TRUE. All land that is owned by regular residents (i.e. land that isn't owned by Governor Linden, another Linden, or public land) is paid for by someone, somewhere via USD$ fees paid to Linden Lab.

Even if we could turn them off from our view, it would only save us - not the hordes of new players.

Plus the thought that you are living in two worlds concurrently - one that is actually hideous, and a dream, fake one where you flipped a switch so you don't have to SEE what is hideous - is a thought I don't care to entertain, and a world I wouldn't want to live in..

If LL wants to overlook the fact that this is griefing and LAND EXTORTION which goes against their VERY TOS, then they will reap the rewards of overlooking it. Which could be disasterous.

If they overlook this case of abusive, widespread, and horrid-for-PR land extortion, what will someone come up with next?

If they want to turn aside from this, they deserve what they get, which is a worse SL. If they will just face this, and deal with it, we can go back to having a pleasant place to live in. If they don't, this sort of thing is only going to get worse.

coco

The person no longer appears in find--people, for what it's worth.

Yeah, I can't find him either. Hopefully a good sign (no pun intended)

Thanks very much for clearing that up Hank.
cheers

I believe . . . that would be . . . probably . . . EXCELLENT NEWS!

I just saw him at a Linden meeting, on Tuesday, I believe it was.

Now, if the signs start disappearing, we can celebrate!

coco

My land in Grignano is an art museum. It's not my "home", whatever nebulous concept that may consist of. Should I not be able to put whatever I want there?

If he pays tier on it, he could put Goatse pics on there for all I care. Tier is expensive; it's a very expensive joke to pay 200 bucks a month for a sim's worth of goatse or tubgirl.

LF

I don't really understand why people have such a huge problem with this guy and his signs. As Lordfly said, its his land, he can do whatever he wants with it as long as it conforms to the "rules" and I don't remember seeing a rule that says we aren't allowed to express our political beliefs.