You Can Do Anything vs. It's Just Too Hard!

Better yet, tell it to the concessionaires at Six Flags.

Hadn't thought about that! Let's not forget the gift shops and photography scams, either.

thanks for the post seth

i was trying to draw you out because what I do is put forth my perspective in the forums and look for compelling reasons to think differently. I hate being complacent about mindset or anything else. I WANT to hear other perspectives... compelling perspectives.

Some people don't actually want to discuss perspectives or issues, they just want to elicit a reaction.

I'm glad other folks laughed previously. Yeah, that one went over my head, but the fact is humor is necessary on these forums, and I don't expect to get every joke.

Forseti, you and Enabran are tops in my book. Along with a whole lot of other people who post here, self-righteously and sincerely, and with whom I regularly poke fun with. Seriously. If I didn't think the content-creatorati were worthy adversaries, I wouldn't waste my time, right?

What ARE you talking about?

I'm not talking about the Internet.

I'm talking about games and things ON the Internet.

SL is one of those games and things ON the Internet.

coco

That would be the virtual drinks.

coco

The internet is a portal to content.
Some of that content is free...
Some of that content, people are willing to pay for.

One of those pieces of paid for Internet content is a platform called SL

SL is a portal to content.
Some of that content is free...
Some of that content, people will be willing to pay for.

If the content here leads to a different portal, then there is a god chance that there will be a market for that portal too.
As the population of SL increases, the likelihood that such a content portal can be a viable business grows.

SL is a "drink" in Enabran's example.

Ah, well, you'd be wrong about that. But some folks just can't be reached.

Uh.

No.

No, it wouldn't.

Nolan's point is that once you pay to get into Six Flags, there's plenty of other stuff you are encouraged to buy, above and beyond admission.



Yes. Yes, the fellow gets it!

Yes, I understood that. And that works to a large extent in SL. Hence the buying of Lindens. But I think that works in SL for ITEMS (analogous to snacks and souvenirs at Six Flags), but not for ENTERTAINMENT (analogous to the rides and shows themselves at Six Flags).

Nonetheless, since the game is now free, as I pointed out in a previous post, this might change.

And yes, Enabran, you just aren't going to reach me if you are trying to convince me that SL IS the Internet or is anything approaching the Internet.

coco

You may or may not be right, Coco...
That remains to be seen...
However, one of the things that has already been expressed int his thread is that there are a number of ways that creators of transient content can still make a buck.

They can, in Enabran's words, "Get eyeballs", and then get paid for the privilege of presenting stuff to their collected eyeballs.

They can create an awareness of need for prestige in the SL community, and then fill that need with a sufficently high standard of content creation for hire.

They can Attach their events to other businesses and utilize a synergizing strategy such that the event, though not making money in and of itself, sufficiently improves it's symbiote businesses as to pay for its own way plus profit. (Rather like a Mall owner who has event space in the same building and holds interesting promotional events for his tenants and his own vending businesses in the mall. Between the event promotion creating Location awareness, eyeball time for the promoted vendors, and spillover traffic from the event, events would be able to pay for themselves, even if the tipjar was empty at the end of the night. In the event that there was anything in said jar at that point, it would be gravy for the train...appreciated, but not mission critical, since we cannot yet count on custom to delineate how much one should spend at an event.)

Duly noted.


Now --- what does it take to make you go away?

Don't get too personal.

What is most critical, Alain, is not the specific ideas posited for those creators to make a buck, but the optimism and can-do attitude that makes such thinking possible. For success to be attained, one's mind must be open to the possibility, sensible of its own potential and excited about the challenge. I am so saddened by the self-defeating attitudes that so often prevail here. Portions of this thread have been a refreshing change from that norm.

The difference is that SL is not the internet and lacks the general utility of the internet-one cannot, for example log on to SL and check movie times. SL competes for entertainment dollars and most resident I should think do not come here with the intention of investing isn and setting up a business. That being said, I don't think any one has disputed that you should have to pay for things over and above what it costs to get in.

I don't think any one is disputing the content creators right to shop thier content off on people and get paid for it, and really once you develop so some skills and figure out which sites on the net everyone else, with some very notable exceptions, is downloading their content from, even skin creation is not too hard.

The problem is that we are nbot just competing for a users money, we are competing for time, and not everyone wants to spend their precious recreational time making stuff. Most of the content creators I know do it on a more or less full time basis, even if it makes sl in effect a second job. Not everyone wants to invest that time. Yet not everyone can affford to just drop 50 bucks every week on linden, or even 15.

Now the key here is findign a balance, and understanding the dynamic of the SL economy. Noone posting in the forums, as far as I know, has done anything like a comprehensive economic analysis of the linden market, so not can even begin to postulate what the infation rate would be given any change in the stipend. Linden economic policy so far has been drastic reactionism, which is seemingly giuded by some notion of what keeps the market stable. This is in turn punctuated by opportunitistic business practices which tend to de-stablize the linden, all played out against the rythmic chant of community building.

The reason I harp on this point is the SL radically needs to have a much better understandign of the Linden market than it currently does, so that we can find a blance at what the stipend level is.

The other reason is of course that Content creation and the commerce market is very well developed and established in SL, whereas, under the current model, non-fungible business has floundered (other than clubs or gambling events).

One of the reasons that free entertainment is so popular is that it maximizes entertainment value and provides an easy way for a casual player to make money. The culmination of this is that people can now go to several places and park thier asses in a seat and do nothing and get linden. Presumably the land owner makes more in dwell than she pays in linden.

Another reason is that the casual player simply cannot afford to pay for entertainment and purchase a halfway decent basic set of clothes. Thus free entertainemnts compete for the casual players dwell. Also, really, a lot of people like playing tringo/slingo/poker/trivia. These games will always outshine in popularity the games like Unreal SL.

However ther eare people trying to develop high quality entertainment in SL, and off beat and unusual stuff. These people should be rewarded because thier creation goes beyond a mere economic one and contributes to the creation of SL community. Even Clubd actually create communities within SL, which is more than I can say for telehubs. When was the last time you joined a group based around a telehub?

My advocacy of a modest increase in stipend, is simpley calcuated as a way of allowing the casual player to get more involved in SL. The more time they spend in Sl the more acclimated they become to a 3-d environment, and the more likely they will be to use it. This will increase population growth and push SL farther along the route to becoming an alternate internet and the so called metaverse.

When we get HTML, it can be. It will certainly be another step in that direction.

Andrew has stated that they wish to see SL as a gateway to online games, and other online services.

Philip and Cory have explained at length, in their white papers, what they have in mind for SL.

That is, simplified, a 3d version of the web.

That is the goal, as realistic or unrealistic as some may think it is. I sort of see folks who speak to the contrary as standing there with their fingers in their ears saying "NO IT"S NOT AND NEVER WILL BE!" Much the same as those who said the same sorts of things about automobiles, telephones, planes, the internet, etc.

I remember my mom and step-dad complaining when I was first trying to get them on the web. They buy, sell and trade vehicles in RL. I thought that the net would be an excellent place for them to extend that.

"It's just a fad."

"It will never be what they say it will be."

"It's too hard."

"The early birds got all the worms."

Yet now, they are two of the most net savvy people I know. They have four PC's, all networked, where they once had none. They belong to many online political discussion groups. They buy and sell RVs, antique cars, golf carts, etc. online, and make a pretty penny while doing so. They also consume goods they buy online. I think a big part of the disconnect here is that people like to draw too sharp of a line between producers and consumers. The hard fact is, we are all both, and lean in varying degrees to one side or the other. Show me someone who is not a consumer, and I will show you a tropical paradise in the Arctic Circle.

9/10ths of the battle is to get moving, and I think that is the gist of what Enabran is trying to say - to those who are so inclined. That is certainly not to say that SL doesn't need or want basic consumers - they do - very much so. If those consumers don't like what is already offered, then they have a choice - go make it themselves, or complain that SL doesn't provide enough for them to do, or even complain that it's too hard to set something up such as they envision, if they envison anything in particular. The latter choices don't do much except cause controversy and more divisiveness.

I try to picture SL as an online Las Vegas. You can go there and gamble, sightsee, get any of a vast myriad of jobs, open a business, get an escort, ride a rollercoaster, attend a medieval joust, buy land and/or a home, buy and sell real estate, go to a water park, wander around on Sahara homeless by the XXX stores, or any of countless other things.

I think this idea you have of "self-defeating attitudes" is kind of a straw man.

Of course, something COULD be done. I could do it. I probably WILL do it. No problem.

Is it WORTH doing - that is the question.

Consider, if you will, this analogy: Climbing to the top of a very craggy, inhospitable mountain.

Needless to say, SOMEBODY is gonna make it to the top of that mountain. Doubtless several somebodies.

Climbing that mountain can be done. But this doesn't make it a very viable business concern, with just hoards of people clamoring to get to the top of that mountain.

Put in a ski-lift, though, and you've got getting to the top of that mountain something a lot of people can do. It becomes a going business concern and a significant part of the economy of the area.

What you are seeing as a "can't-do" attitude is often actually more of a "could do, but it's not nearly as worth it as doing other things."

Non-physical content lacks the ski-lift that physical content has built into it in this game. That is why I do physical content rather than non-physical content. Not because I COULDN'T do the non-physical, but because I can do both, I enjoy both, and the first is economically a lot more worth it than the second.

If they pumped up the second with more ski-lifts, then maybe we would get more entertainment that doesn't rely on sex as its strongest drawing card.

One can analyze what works in an environment and what is less profitable, without suffering from a "can't-do" mentality.

coco

Who is they?

LL?

LL is not in the business of providing things for you to do.

LL is in the business of selling tickets to a place where other participants provide things to do.

LL has stated time and again that they plan to hand over more and more control of SL to the customers as time goes on.

If there isn't compelling non-physical content, we only have ourselves to blame, especially those of us who lament about it.

It does not fit LL's business model to have Linden employees running Linden created game shows or what have you.

Edit: Maybe I misread your post, are you equating LL subsidies for non-physical content creators to "ski-lifts"? If so, why should they enjoy perks that physical content creators do not? Just as it is my opinion in RL, the gov't in SL should not be in the business of subsidizing any content that isn't educational, and available to all.

Christ, let's not open that bag of flaming poop again. Now we're going to have to hear a few pages worth of ill-considered nonsense about why event support should be restored.

Which is fine with me, if I get a bonus for every prim I sell.

What 'ski-lift' does creating physical content have built into it?

Non-physical content gets free Event Listings, while physical content gets to pay $250 a pop for classifieds in world.
Non-physical content earns Traffic, while physical content only takes seconds to purchase or browse...

I think you have your analogy backwards.

Yes. That is exactly what I'm saying. If you never try, you always fail.

It's gotta have some ski-lifts, even if they are largely psychological.

Unless you want to argue that it's easier - or just as easy - to profit from entertainment in SL as it is to profit from physical content.

coco

This subject reminds me a lot of my time in early high school. I'd always been comfortable with girls, but I never had the balls to make the "first move" as it is called.

Of course, without making the first move, you get no action in high school (usually). It's one of those solid rules, like gravity, that can only be altered by the most unlikely confluences of natural forces, none of which I had at my disposal at that time.

Once I changed my tactics and "grew a pair," as it were, my luck changed. By taking action, I got some action. And life was awesome.

The point? You fail to kiss 100% of the women you don't ask out. You fail to profit from 100% of the business ventures you don't attempt.