A Modest Proposal for SL: Security Firms
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 12:08
Yep. Banned agents can still REZ STUFF on the parcel. And they can rez stuff next to it, and slide it into the parcel. In the end, you'd still need someone where with land owner authority to delete items. Since Live Help doesn't have the power, and the Live Help Lindens (we love you, we know you're suddenly overworked.) can't always be there.
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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06-20-2006 12:16
From: Burke Prefect Yep. Banned agents can still REZ STUFF on the parcel. And they can rez stuff next to it, and slide it into the parcel. In the end, you'd still need someone where with land owner authority to delete items. Since Live Help doesn't have the power, and the Live Help Lindens (we love you, we know you're suddenly overworked.) can't always be there. Some landowners designate estate managers who help them ride herd on the griefer situation. For owners of very large parcels or entire sims, keeping the peace can be a daunting task if you're trying to do it all by yourself.
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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06-20-2006 12:21
From: Burke Prefect Yep. Banned agents can still REZ STUFF on the parcel. And they can rez stuff next to it, and slide it into the parcel. In the end, you'd still need someone where with land owner authority to delete items. Since Live Help doesn't have the power, and the Live Help Lindens (we love you, we know you're suddenly overworked.) can't always be there. Some landowners designate estate managers who help them ride herd on the griefer situation. For owners of very large parcels or entire sims, keeping the peace can be a daunting task if you're trying to do it all by yourself.
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 12:27
Damn. Forum stutttter.
This world isn't perfect. And now it got alot less perfect. We need to do what we can to keep if crom becoming complete crap. Shy of just buying private, isolated islands.
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 12:51
A few people have IM'd me or mentioned here or in related threads about the idea that it's okay to start blasting back at greifers with guns.
Here's the problem. 1.) Unless you plug them in the first couple of shots you're not really helping. 2.) Innocent residents can get hurt in the process. 3) It will lag the sim further. And 4.) It's against TOS, which while there is piss-poor enforcement, there is still banning without a really good reason. Don't get banned because of their punkasses.
Eject, Ban, AR. Blacklisting will continue to eject them. You should still be ARing, asking Live Help, and if they persist, then, maybe go ahead and ice the motherpecker, but it's your ass, not ours.
LL, please do something about this before the entire grid becomes a warzone.
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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06-20-2006 12:57
One idea to prevent you from being banned for shooting the greifer back is to use a alt with another email address.  Sure the alt gets banned but pfft... Now that i said that, maybee Ll might fix the problem? nah...
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Joannah Cramer
Registered User
Join date: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 1,539
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06-20-2006 13:39
So uhmm, classic question seem to be missing...
* who watches the watchers?
i mean, once you put in place a global ban list that large group of people utilize pretty much basing on faith, it's very easy to mess up SL experience of someone you don't like simply by lying about them. Person X rubs you wrong way? Spend five mins making up stuff and lock them out of half of SL. Then have fun watching them try to prove that no, they are not a horse. It was "just" temporary ban? rinse, repeat. Get a friend or a few "join you in the just cause" for extra credibility.
How exactly would the complaints be verified in order to prevent such situations, before they're put in motion, and how possible arguments about legality of claim would be settled?
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Myrrh Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 362
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REPUTABLE Security is Key
06-20-2006 13:56
I'm actually shopping for a security presence right now, for a two-month series of high-profile events which have proven to be a conspicuous and vulnerable target to sophomoric antics. I'm having a difficult time finding a group I'm confident would be up to the task. It's not a matter of enthusiasm nor firepower, it's mostly a matter of character and experience. I want a well-organised, well-disciplined, well-practiced group with the proverbial boy scout mentality, and that's the key. I'm looking for the ultimate storybook good guy police officers - people who will react to situations as myself and my fellow organisers would, if we weren't busy actually running the event: RULE ONENever, ever, foster rancor. If action is required, it needs to be of the absolute lowest-profile nature - quick, effective, and non-provocative. RULE TWOAlways take a minimal-force approach. That means anticipating problems before they become conflicts. That means being friendly and diplomatic, catching flies with honey rather than vinegar. That means your primary recourse is abuse-reporting: push guns, prim walls, and such are secondary tools, only brought out where required to keep disruption in check. That means cultivating a trusted and reciporical relationship with the Lindens. RULE THREEThe event mustn't be disrupted. This is the primary mission of the security force, but it's the third priority, after the first two rules. Effective security personnel take the time to get to know an event, and work at all times to facilitate its success. Most of their job is not fighting griefers, it's communicating effectively. Put together a security force which operates under these principles, and you're golden. They're the same standards under which real-life security personel, ranging from military all the way down to rent-a-cops, are successful and earn the respect of the public. And if you know of an extant group which is up to the task, IM me - I want to hire them! 
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 13:56
From: Joannah Cramer So uhmm, classic question seem to be missing... * who watches the watchers? i mean, once you put in place a global ban list that large group of people utilize pretty much basing on faith, it's very easy to mess up SL experience of someone you don't like simply by lying about them. Person X rubs you wrong way? Spend five mins making up stuff and lock them out of half of SL. Then have fun watching them try to prove that no, they are not a horse. It was "just" temporary ban? rinse, repeat. Get a friend or a few "join you in the just cause" for extra credibility. How exactly would the complaints be verified in order to prevent such situations, before they're put in motion, and how possible arguments about legality of claim would be settled? *does the Linden shuffle* Well... get back to you... on that one. *cha-cha* Seriously, yes, this is a potential problem. We're working on a solution. Like how you'd have to first own the land, or be an authorized member, and a rep would have to take a look before making it permanent.
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 14:02
From: Myrrh Massiel I'm actually shopping for a security presence right now, for a two-month series of high-profile events which have proven to be a conspicuous and vulnerable target to sophomoric antics. I'm having a difficult time finding a group I'm confident would be up to the task. It's not a matter of enthusiasm nor firepower, it's mostly a matter of character and experience. I want a well-organised, well-disciplined, well-practiced group with the proverbial boy scout mentality, and that's the key. I'm looking for the ultimate storybook good guy police officers - people who will react to situations as myself and my fellow organisers would, if we weren't busy actually running the event: RULE ONE Never, ever, foster rancor. If action is required, it needs to be of the absolute lowest-profile nature - quick, effective, and non-provocative. RULE TWO Always take a minimal-force approach. That means anticipating problems before they become conflicts. That means being friendly and diplomatic, catching flies with honey rather than vinegar. That means your primary recourse is abuse-reporting: push guns, prim walls, and such are secondary tools, only brought out where required to keep disruption in check. That means cultivating a trusted and reciporical relationship with the Lindens. RULE THREE The event mustn't be disrupted. This is the primary mission of the security force, but it's the third priority, after the first two rules. Effective security personnel take the time to get to know an event, and work at all times to facilitate its success. Most of their job is not fighting griefers, it's communicating effectively. Put together a security force which operates under these principles, and you're golden. They're the same standards under which real-life security personel, ranging from military all the way down to rent-a-cops, are successful and earn the respect of the public. And if you know of an extant group which is up to the task, IM me - I want to hire them!  Also helpful would be instant TP home. With recurrant scanning for offenders. Which would be the main tool.
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Myrrh Massiel
Registered User
Join date: 7 Oct 2005
Posts: 362
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06-20-2006 15:50
From: someone Also helpful would be instant TP home. With recurrant scanning for offenders. Which would be the main tool. Defintiely that would be ideal, in the case of event-manager-owned parcels. And it's reasonably simple for the landowner to implement, especially with an automated system such as you're proposing. What I'm describing, though, is active security presence for the duration of an event in which landowner tools aren't available. It'd be much more hands-on by neccessity, paying an organisation to handle all the trenchwork which an event's organisers don't have the manpower nor practiced expertise to manage effectively. In my case, we're running sailing regattas across a dozen Linden-owned void sims. Between race managers, referees, press liasons, and event hosts, there's precious little manpower on-tap to deal with griefers who decide it might be fun to orbit half the fleet or pilot a destroyer around the finish line with reckless abandon. We don't attract enemies, but a dedicated and well-mannered security presence could go a long way toward neutralising the chaos script kiddies hope to sow, eliminating their payoff from the equation. Handled correctly, griefers will almost always choose either to enjoy the event or to move on in boredom, and a good working relationship with Linden Lab can always bring in heavy support where required. It just takes dedicated manpower.
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 15:53
From: Myrrh Massiel Defintiely that would be ideal, in the case of event-manager-owned parcels. And it's reasonably simple for the landowner to implement, especially with an automated system such as you're proposing. What I'm describing, though, is active security presence for the duration of an event in which landowner tools aren't available. It'd be much more hands-on by neccessity, paying an organisation to handle all the trenchwork which an event's organisers don't have the manpower nor practiced expertise to manage effectively. In my case, we're running sailing regattas across a dozen Linden-owned void sims. Between race managers, referees, press liasons, and event hosts, there's precious little manpower on-tap to deal with griefers who decide it might be fun to orbit half the fleet or pilot a destroyer around the finish line with reckless abandon. We don't attract enemies, but a dedicated and well-mannered security presence could go a long way toward neutralising the chaos script kiddies hope to sow, eliminating their payoff from the equation. Handled correctly, griefers will almost always choose either to enjoy the event or to move on in boredom, and a good working relationship with Linden Lab can always bring in heavy support if required. It just takes dedicated manpower. Ahh. Orbiting checked against a 'whitelist' of all persons involved. Easy-ish.
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Vares Solvang
It's all Relative
Join date: 26 Jan 2005
Posts: 2,235
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I don't see this as being very effective
06-20-2006 16:38
The only thing I could see this doing would be to draw in more griefers. They would see the "security" as a challange and launch repeated attacks just to be annoying.
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Kalel Venkman
Citizen
Join date: 10 Mar 2006
Posts: 587
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06-20-2006 17:34
And then after it becomes public knowledge that you can't get very far doing that, they'll eventually go away. These people do talk to each other, and they do stay away from well-supervised areas.
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Nexus Nash
Undercover Linden
Join date: 18 Dec 2002
Posts: 1,084
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06-20-2006 18:54
Ok I added in whilelist caching and blacklist caching.
The system itself is ready to go, I just need to add the ability to create and add users to lists on the web.
The script runs idle at like 0.01 ~ 0.00 on idle, and about 0.40 ~ 0.25 under full load in a healthy sim. I think it's pretty good for now. it's pretty much like 20% and less of processing power I see from other security systems on AzureIslands. If someone can get a team together to start picking up names, i'll probably add a very simple login and 'add names to your lists' tomorrow and release first beta to the public.
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Burke Prefect
Cafe Owner, Superhero
Join date: 29 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,785
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06-20-2006 20:10
Ok. Well. PM me for login, etc. I"m still waiting for people to IM me about joining.
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