A Modest Proposal for SL: Security Firms

Okay. Let's start off by explaining the problem we're all facing.

1. On 6/6/06, in a bid to inflate the population with a now-feasible goal of One Million Users by year's end. LL opened free, no-verification-needed registration for SecondLife. It's is now possible to create alt after alt after alt. With not noticable restrictions. It's now even possible to register for the Teen Grid.
   
2. Few of these alts become upstanding premium residents, as was hoped. But are instead a majority are potential greifers, scammers, tree pickers, and general nuisances.
   
3. A noticable upsurge in greifing and scamming attacks has occured, it's spilled over into the main forums.
   

What I'm Thinking (views subject to change)::

It's not reasonable to create another 'police department' with no power, few members, and no reward. That system does not work in a world like this.

What might work, however, is a paid security firm (or firms, cooperating with eachother) patrolling areas like shops, providing security at events, and acting as personal bodyguards. Land owners and people in need of protection would pay a weekly fee, which would go mainly toward paying the patrolling officers.

There are a few rough spots:
- to be effective the patrolman (or shift supervisor) would need rights to delete objects from land. Or have a list of people we can contact for that parcel that can delete items.
- since banning lists will be overflowing, we'll need devices that blacklist users and eject people that rez non-authorized objects.
- guns would only be for show. We'd be using the flick of god on serious offenders.
- we'd need to get competent leaders that are patient and willing to train officers and not get all 'mad with power lolz'.

Thoughts? Ideas? Etc? I'm wanting feedback from the community before I commit anything. Especially from Lindens and potential customers.

As your proposal seems to be primarily about being paid for services rather than altruism on your part, I'm sure you won't object to my stating what I always do about groups of this kind... Please keep your roleplaying to the combat sims.

This is for Linden Labs to fix, not for residents to incur further costs over. When the headlines about Anshe are replaced by a widely held belief that SL is a scammers paradise and unsuitable environment to do business or even seek entertainment in safety, I'm sure they'll reconsider their current policy.

Good concept, not for SL though. Too many ifs\buts and restrictions. Right now with SL it's either full perms or nothing.

Just thought of something right this minute. I thought of basiclly 'hmmm SL can't hold any info or do any type of processing'. So bascily, how about a simple script with a sensor that does secure HTTP checks via a massive list. Lets face it, LL is too slow to respond to griefing or just plain, 'we'll give them a chance'. How about a massive list that your 'agency' can manage\edit\add\remove. This way, all shop owners that wish to be part of this system\agency simply needs to get one of these HTTP checker boxes and place it on their land. When people come by, it checks them via http vs the master list and ejects them (send home if on script owners land) or does nothing). It's not against the TOS and it's probably more efficient then ban\access lists. Thoughts?

Oh I can probably script this in about an hour tops, master list server side process and LSL scripts. However I don't want to 'run' the agency, I can simply maintain the code. (not the list).

Burke, thoughts?

I find the potential for abuse too great.

A security force would be VERY limited it what it could do. It could work wonders against REAL accounts (if you blacklist my main character I'd be upset I'd not be able to go to events you were at or whatever) ... but against throwaway suicide bomber accounts set up to grief/scam there is little you could do about it. They'll just delete and make another and come right back.

I also feel that giving power (like permissions to delete items) to a security force could be scary. What is to stop a scammer/griefer from infiltrating the Security team and using my permissions to rob me blind?

What is to stop the very scammers/griefers you're trying to ward off from impersonating the Security forces and griefing/scamming that way?

"Yeah I'm with Burke's Security team ... you have a griefer leaving crap on your lawn .. please give me permissions to delete this stuff for you. Thanks." ... or "Yeah I'm with the Security force ... we need your payment for this week."

Scammed. Griefed. Checkmate.


Your intentions are good, Burke, real good ... but it'd be like arming civilians and starting a mob to crack down on global terrorism. It just isn't going to work, IMHO, and could cause larger problems.

LL needs to step in and shatter this before the sky starts falling.

Thats not a bad idea Nexus... though i'm still left with the feeling that as Linden Labs are the only people with both access to the data and any accountability, they're really the only people who can fairly and effectively deal with the problems. Issues of accountability aside, it smacks of passengers plugging holes in a sinking ship with toilet paper while the captain carries on steaming, telling everyone that nothing is wrong.

Damnit, Burke, I opened this thread hoping for orphan recipes.

Burke, that's not exactly what I had in mind, but I understand what you mean about this not working if it's for free. For myself, I don't really want to be a paid security person for anyone, and I think there could be issues with the hiring mall/club not having control over the employees of the sub-contracting security service.


I don't think you understand what he proposed, which has nothing to do with people running around with guns. If the correct group/land settings can be arranged you don't need guns -- I do it all the time with one club to which I belong, and I don't carry guns. I wish we had more versatile land controls, but the ones we have are sufficient to keep griefers and scammers out (until they create a new account) without shooting people.


I agree, but if you hold your breath waiting, better grab an O2 tank now before you turn blue.


Not sure how that differs from my home's security orb. I have an access/ban list on that which I (or anyone assigned to my group and named as "enforcer" can alter with a slash command. And I don't think it has a length limit like the land access ban does.

True, however I don't like just waiting for stuff to happen. Sometimes you have no choice, sometimes you do. As for the 'system' I proposed, I think it's legit, it's your land, you can ban whoever you want off it. If I put in a simple 'if avatar is over your land and is on the ban list then TP home'. Again, whoever is regulating it, would have to be very watchful and actually investigate. I'm just up to making the 'software' I don't have time to patrol and investigate.

That's a major part of it, yes.

The big difference is that, in this case, the list is centrally maintained on a server and all shops using it always have an up to date list of offenders, since they check against the that one list. A new scammer is found out and all the shops he visit which use the system will know about him and eject him.

Wendel

Honestly, I think the real answer here is that the retail stores that are, for whatever reason, attracting scammers need to hire employees. These employees would be salespeople, out on the floor, helping customers with any questions they might have, as well as helping to deter scammers. If an employee saw someone trying to scam a customer, they could inform the customer that they are being scammed. If that didn't work, the employee could contact the owner to kick/ban the scammer, and delete any stuff he/she may have rezzed.

I think all Burke was suggesting was a Rent-A-Cop type thing that many real-life department stores currently have. I don't think that's really necessary, as long as you have a salesperson working in a store. The presence of the salesperson should be enough to deter any scammers. It might also actually increase your sales, as many new users enjoy speaking to a representative of a store before making a purchase.

Ah, it would check vs a massive 'global' list on a webserver. Bascily, you don't need to add names or edit the list yourself, the service\agency does (what burke proposed). When add someone to the list it restricts these people where ever there is one of these systems. EX person A griefs at location A. Agency enters person A into list. Person a is restricted (or banned) from location A, B, C, D, E, F... ie where ever another shop\house owner puts down a script handed out by this agency. It's kinda of like a global security orb, just scripted a little better and less individualistic.

...and he makes another alt in 30 seconds.

Really, it's a technically admirable idea, but this fact alone is why it would be ineffective and why this issue is far larger than the specifics of yesterdays scam, because there is NO solution for residents or LL themselves as long as this is possible.

Very true, I agree 100%. However, I imagine LL will throttle this signup thing in some way. Sure the one who's doing the scams can use proxies and stuff... but will someone really create a new account for every like 1000L$ ? I mean, if these guys are effective, as soon as you are on this list, you can't do anything anywhere. You have to create a new account relog, find the pos again, make a group for 100L$ etc etc. I think it can put a big ass speed bump in this but like you said, not a full stop.

I'm not saying it's perfect. I'm just saying it'd put a dent the current rate of scamming. The only way to stem the tide would be LL going back the old CC-required registrations and people being smarter about scams. LL has pretty much washed their hands of all of it, and I'm personally feeling like our rights as paying residents has been abandoned. Immediate actions are needed to prevent things like this from happening.



Yes. It's called Store Owners Getting A Clue and knowing to CONTACT ME or someone on the leader list directly. We'll be keeping group memberships tightened down for this purpose. No day-one wanks on our rosters.

there are dance pad, why not police pad ?

Ah, look what's crawled out of the woodwork - wannabe cops...

It's just a thought. Either that or store employees. But something has to be done. I'd love to hear your thoughts?

Ok, that actually makes a huge bit of sense to me, now that it's seeped into my thick skull


You're quick with the mocking, Doc, how about some more positive suggestions instead?

Because the scammers would just sit on the police pad. The idea isn't that we'd park someone at a store all day, but hop around.

The day that LL gives anyone - including many of their own employees - enforcement power is the day I make my AV female and pole dance.

One million players? Wouldn't it just be easier for LL to grep some USENET groups for e-mail addresses and sign them up?

Although my data on the likelihood of this is also anecdotal, I'm willing to assign it a low probability of occurrence.

(Caveat: I read the first post only.)
Sadly, right about now, if such a group existed, I'd use them in a heartbeat.

Question is, would we eventually get AR'd ourselves, and suspended/banned for defending ourselves against a problem we didn't create?

Right now I'm disenchanted enough. I dont want to know the answer to that question.

I would join a police force -- but only if you designed the uniforms, Neph.

Seriously though, I'm considering forming a Port Neualtenburg Guild backed "neighborhood watch" for Artisans who wish to have some friendly eyes swing by their stores.

No enforcement or such issues --just squads of friendly eyes that go on detail for merchants who wish to subscribe to such a service --plus they get to wear real cute prussian outfits with spiked helmets.

Anyone interested I'll be holding a meeting in Port Neualtenburg this week. Watch the Neualtenburg Projekt Forums for announcements.