Do we need SL lawyers?

I treat life as fun, but it's also serious. One doesn't negate the other for myself.

But I think the important point here is Linden Labs goals, not mine or yours. If their goal is a 'game' then probably nothing needs to be done about a mechanism to settle contracts and disputes.

However, if LL's goal is to create a 3D Internet with a viable economy, then there has to be some form of a workable and fair judicial mechanism. You just cannot have a real growing economy otherwise.

That is neither distillable or achieveable.

I know it may be Philips dream, but maybe someone needs to let him know there's also no such thing as Santa or the Tooth Fairy before it's too late.

The only true '3D internet' will only happen when someone develops a working version of the Star Trek holodeck. Until then, whatever 3D it is appears flat on your monitor - and the only other option is those silly red and blue glasses.

Lewis

I disagree with you there. For an economy, it breaks down to both an in game economy and a real money economy. The internent is full of success stories of viable companies that make money. Of course only a fraction of companies do actually make it. But for an in game economy and completly ignoring the RL aspect, any game which has an economic aspect needs that part of it to work.

I'm no stranger to gaming economics. If you really are interested in just how detailed some game economies can work, take a look at one of my favorite games of all times, Empires in Arms, and the unoffical rewrite, Empires in Harm. www.empiresinharm.com.

Its a board game representing the entire Napoleonic era, with optional rules to cover the period from 1789 to 1815. The rule book is a good 60 pages. A lot of people think us gamers are crazy and can't begin to understand why we play. But if you're a true gamer, you thrive on this stuff. And what one aspect of a good game is having an in game economy that makes sense and when necessary, simulates a real economy. But I digress.

And with respect to the 3D aspect, true, its not really 3D. Its more of a 2D with an illusion of 3D allowing people to interact with each other unlike the current interent where you surf under the illusion of solitude.

Then I trust you won't take things so seriously when something happens that annoys you, such as securty systems that don't violate TOS.

Very wise words. LIke any uninsured investment, put your money and talents into SL knowing you have no real protection against loss or theft.

Part of the risk of doing business in SL is that you can lose it all, or have your work stolen or copied, and in reality not much can or will be done about it. Hiring a lawyer for the alleged theft of a skin, or texture, or copying of any item is not realistic.

Who would want to spend thousands of dollars to go after someone for a stolen texture worth a very small portion of that over time. In addition, the process for establishing questionable copyrights in light of recent decisions concerning derivative works of art makes it uncertain whether copyrights could even be obtained or established.

I don't think reputable lawyers would take such a de minimus case actually; We are too busy with other matters. The amounts at issue would be small claims cases and, in most US states, a lawyer cannot provide in court representation of a small claims matter unless the defending an action against a corporate defendant.

Well harassment is harassment, particularly on the playground, isn't it? The TOS/CS addresses harassment and griefing, and these are not legal matters. There is a distinction between harassment and allegations of theft.

If something is negatively affecting my gameplay, then it is a ToS violation - such as a security system. If someone can't use a push weapon to fire you half way across a sim, why should they be able to use the same thing in a security script? At least with a gun it's the user choosing, with a security script it's indiscriminate, which is even worse in my opinion.

Every time I'm out exploring and something with insufficient or no warning, or indication of no access, throws me out of my planned route, then it will be reported. Period. Repeatedly, until it is dealt with. You do realise, of course, that whereas most people would ignore the land they are flying past, when they are griefed by a security system, will go back and try to figure out what the cause was, and either report or take revenge? The whole concept is self-defeating.

I have no problem with people banning griefers from their land when they have a legitimate reason - innocent until proven guilty.

What security systems are is "shoot first, ask questions later", which is not the premise of a civilised society.

Lewis

I wasn't talking about using RL lawyers to resolve SL disputes. What I was saying is there is currently now way _in game_ to resolve disputes. I'm also not saying there should be, as there will be a cost of implementing one in terms of money, time and the elusive "fun factor."

The risk of loss here is part of doing business in SL, and for the most part it would be absurd to involve real lawsuits over the petty claims people have here. But some SL residents do make signifcant money, and if someone is out thousands of USD or more, its only a matter of time before somebody is sued.

But thats not what I was talking about in this thread.

I'm really not disagreeing with you here. Im just pointing out that your solution to other people's problems that affect their game play in a negative manner seemed to be very different than your solution to what should be done when your game play is affected in a negative manner. If I misunderstood, then I apologize.

It is a dilemma, isn't it. Many options have been proposed for consideration to address the resolution of in world disputes, but without Linden support and enforcement the proposals lack teeth. There is no way to enforce any agreement between disputing parties or to have an objective third party intervention.

Even if the disputing members agree to mediation of their dispute, if one chose to disregard the ultimate resolution agreement then there is nothing that can be done in the current system.

I need a lawyer because of this:

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/story/442103p-372372c.html

Piggytails, wings, long eyelashes, tutu ... I am SO suing Sesame Street.

No we dont as we have enuff Sharks in the pond already we dont need anymore

The judicial process is like a cow. The public is impaled on its horns, the government has it by the tail, and all the while the lawyers are milking it