Justice by the Book

I think this is exactly why. Differing views. Many people don't want the people we see here having any say as to how this virtual world is run.

And again, it can be done within the confines of SL, so why do we need to have it applied so broadly over the whole of the land?

Or perhaps, just perhaps, they are worried they would then have to throw themselves out and the rest of us with them for being intolerant of LD.

The question aimee is really do you want a TOS that is a hundred and twenty volumes with lawyers to argue it, judges to interpret it, and courts to enforce it? If you are LL do you really want to pay for this, and if you are players, do you really want to pay enough for SL to subsidize this cost and make LL a profit?

Aim, where does it say Robin's text that you quoted? I couldn't seem to find her original post.

AHAHA My Robin quote was a joke

Which people don't want who to have a say?

How are the confines of SL different from the "whole of the land?"

I vote for selective rendering/interaction. literally, an ignore list that not only mutes the person but stops everything owned by them from being rendered, and everything owned by them from having any interaction with your avatar at all. IE, everything they own is phantom to you, invisible, not able to detect you, or push you or anything. You don't exist to them and they don't exist to you. Then I vote for perfect anarchy. No linden intervention short of sim crashing.

Yes, this was not a contructive comment . I really do like the anarchy idea, but until we can control our own sl experience more precisely, it's not feasible.

As many of you know, the official answer has been handed down by from Robin Linden regarding the “Impeach Bush” and other political signs that now dot the countryside. That answer was:



In many ways the decision is a triumph of the strictly-by-the-book-no-matter-what philosophy of community management. Unfortunately, “by-the-book” only works if the “book” is well written to begin with. If comprehensive volumes of laws and by-laws existed for Second Life that covered all potential violations and combinations of violations then I feel the Lindens would be duty-bound to govern by the numbers leave their informed interpretations and opinions at the door.

However our TOS/CS is a small, vague document. Rather than cover specifics, the TOS leaves ample room for Linden interpretation. This is fine as long as the Lindens are ready and willing to interpret! Sadly I fear the Lindens may be borrowing the worst from both possible policies. The Lindens fail to address specific issues in the TOS, and then refuse to stop bad behavior on the grounds that the behavior wasn’t specifically mentioned in the TOS!

The result is what a past poster referred to as “Marginal Griefing.” Marginal Griefing can be compared to having your little brother wave his pointed finger close to (BUT NOT TOUCHING) your face. He is technically not breaking the rules laid out by mom but is still successfully bringing grief to his sibling. Fortunately in a family setting a parent can see the behavior for what it is, and put a stop to it. Not so in Second Life.

I don’t have a passionate opinion on the “Impeach Bush” signs (which is why these comments appear on their own thread.) But I DO think there should be a discussion about how much interpretation the Lindens should be allowed when keeping the peace as it compares to the level of protection provided by our TOS. We should either have a comprehensive TOS with little Linden interpretation, or a flexible TOS with a great deal of Linden interpretation. But a vague TOS combined with Lindens who are unable to act without a TOS section specifically backing them up will simply open the door for harassment, griefing, or worse.

Well that would be one of two viable options. The other would be a light-weight TOS that provided vague guidelines for bad behavior (which is what we have) PLUS an empowered Linden who is permitted to make jusgement calls. If a comprehensive TOS would be too costly, then an empowered Linden would be a fine alternative.

What I'm saying is NOT acceptable is for the Lindens to be unspecific in their TOS and then later refuse to inforce anything that isn't specific in the TOS.

On the other hand, if what Blaze and Cory are saying is really happening, I guess in a sidestepping sort of way it's acceptable.

I vote for selective rendering/interaction. literally, an ignore list that not only mutes the person but stops everything owned by them from being rendered, and everything owned by them from having any interaction with your avatar at all. IE, everything they own is phantom to you, invisible, not able to detect you, or push you or anything. You don't exist to them and they don't exist to you. Then I vote for perfect anarchy. No linden intervention short of sim crashing.

Yes, this was not a contructive comment . I really do like the anarchy idea, but until we can control our own sl experience more precisely, it's not feasible.

There was a controvery a while back about your own For Sale signs being called ugly and a tool of extortion. Who decides aesthetics in a place where you're allowed to create almost anything (and people usually do)?




I absolutely agree with this statement. I have a strong suspicion that LL has been keeping close tabs on this guy, waiting for him to cross the line on a clear TOS enforcement. Kinda like that asshole neighbor that leaves rusted cars and broken glass in his yard, but he's finally arrested for fencing VCRs or beating his wife. The cops know he's trouble, but you have to wait for him to actually do something wrong before you arrest him.

I vote for selective rendering/interaction. literally, an ignore list that not only mutes the person but stops everything owned by them from being rendered, and everything owned by them from having any interaction with your avatar at all. IE, everything they own is phantom to you, invisible, not able to detect you, or push you or anything. You don't exist to them and they don't exist to you. Then I vote for perfect anarchy. No linden intervention short of sim crashing.

Yes, this was not a contructive comment . I really do like the anarchy idea, but until we can control our own sl experience more precisely, it's not feasible.

I think after activating my filters. My 2nd Life would probably just contain me and some large breasted girl with wings.

I think after activating my filters. My 2nd Life would probably just contain me and some large breasted girl with wings.

As many of you know, the official answer has been handed down by from Robin Linden regarding the “Impeach Bush” and other political signs that now dot the countryside. That answer was:



In many ways the decision is a triumph of the strictly-by-the-book-no-matter-what philosophy of community management. Unfortunately, “by-the-book” only works if the “book” is well written to begin with. If comprehensive volumes of laws and by-laws existed for Second Life that covered all potential violations and combinations of violations then I feel the Lindens would be duty-bound to govern by the numbers leave their informed interpretations and opinions at the door.

However our TOS/CS is a small, vague document. Rather than cover specifics, the TOS leaves ample room for Linden interpretation. This is fine as long as the Lindens are ready and willing to interpret! Sadly I fear the Lindens may be borrowing the worst from both possible policies. The Lindens fail to address specific issues in the TOS, and then refuse to stop bad behavior on the grounds that the behavior wasn’t specifically mentioned in the TOS!

The result is what a past poster referred to as “Marginal Griefing.” Marginal Griefing can be compared to having your little brother wave his pointed finger close to (BUT NOT TOUCHING) your face. He is technically not breaking the rules laid out by mom but is still successfully bringing grief to his sibling. Fortunately in a family setting a parent can see the behavior for what it is, and put a stop to it. Not so in Second Life.

I don’t have a passionate opinion on the “Impeach Bush” signs (which is why these comments appear on their own thread.) But I DO think there should be a discussion about how much interpretation the Lindens should be allowed when keeping the peace as it compares to the level of protection provided by our TOS. We should either have a comprehensive TOS with little Linden interpretation, or a flexible TOS with a great deal of Linden interpretation. But a vague TOS combined with Lindens who are unable to act without a TOS section specifically backing them up will simply open the door for harassment, griefing, or worse.

We do try to do what seems right and best, and not to hide behind policies or rules.

I vote for selective rendering/interaction. literally, an ignore list that not only mutes the person but stops everything owned by them from being rendered, and everything owned by them from having any interaction with your avatar at all. IE, everything they own is phantom to you, invisible, not able to detect you, or push you or anything. You don't exist to them and they don't exist to you. Then I vote for perfect anarchy. No linden intervention short of sim crashing.

Yes, this was not a contructive comment . I really do like the anarchy idea, but until we can control our own sl experience more precisely, it's not feasible.

I like the idea too... BUT...

Somehow, from a tech standpoint, since we render by clip, I have a feeling this would be VERY hard to do. It might also cause a lag bottleneck, because everywhere you go, everything around you has to be checked against your mute list.

I like the idea too... BUT...

Somehow, from a tech standpoint, since we render by clip, I have a feeling this would be VERY hard to do. It might also cause a lag bottleneck, because everywhere you o, everything around you has to be checked against your mute list.

I agree. I think rather than have the rendering engine constantly trying to decide on which objects to draw, it would be best to have the client just throw away any freshly streamed objects that are in the client's filter list and then just forget about them.

This would still be a little slower than what we have now. But if we flter out alot of objects near our land, then overall client performance would increase. How many people have bought land in an area because it was peaceful and quiet. Then a few weeks later found themselves surrounded by skyscapers? Well? Hands up! Yeah, exactly. That many!

The biggest puzzle is what happens with objects in the sandboxes. I could filter out Grizzly Griiefer's objects and then go into the sandbox and unknowingly build on top of his build and get my legs smacked for griefing. Maybe no filtering on public land?