Linden Words on The Forest Incident

/139/c5/110357/1.html#post1064849

Just so everyone notice and so they can start firing all the Abuse Reports they could

Er...this post isn't against TOS is it? o.O I haven't name anyone name's in here

Does this meen they can't do it? o.o
*takes out the tenticle whips* I gues it's up to us.
*bends people over* Confess Repent! YAA!! XD

Interesting...

Read the "Community Standards" link that Torley referenced.

They will ban someone for things like racial or sexual intolerance, shooting someone, or griefing by creating self-spawning garbage...

But there is not ONE WORD in the "Community Standards" that protects an individual against the complete deletion of their content in a sim. Nothing at all about other people deleting what you own.

I can't push someone without risking abuse reports and getting banned.

But apparently it's just fine to turn their home sim into a barren sand bar.

*sigh*

{EDIT}

After further reading and research, while the "Big Six" rules don't touch on what happened, it looks like the following policy section does...


I should hope that LL would agree that deleting the entire content of a sim is an action that broadly interferes with or disrupts the Second Life community.

{/ END EDIT}

A land owner is someone who owns / rents server space from Linden Lab. They should be able to do what they want.

If renters demand more rights than this, they can't simply expect it to come out of thin air.

Why don't you, in your fury, write up a "renters' rights" document, like 10 things all renters should expect, and then go on a crusade to talk to lots of renters and that they should only rent from land renters who support those rights?

Here, I'll get you started:


Land Renters' Rights in Second Life:
- 3 days' notice before any deletion of objects by the land's owner, except for emergencies
- any land whose rent is paid upfront in an agreement for a certain time period must be honored til the end of the time period.
- Should a land owner wish to end a rental agreement it early and refund the money, it is the renters' choice whether to accept a refund or to stay til the end of the agreement.
- Renters should not be forced to put advertising on their land.

... go on, take it from here.

I love grassroots movements, people should fight for their rights. First they came for The Forest, and I didn't care because I wasn't a furry... then they finally came for me, and there wasn't anyone left to care

I have kinda been watching this, and as I understand it, the sim (as all private sims) has one single owner. The land was deeded to a group. The group, nor the members paid rent.

The last point doens't matter for this argument.

Any officer of a group (and in this case the sim owner is always an officer of the group that holds land on a private sim) can do anything they please with the items on group land. If you are an estate manager you have even wider sweeping powers. The problem here lies with the fad of renting land instead of owning. You take your chances. There are no enforcable contracts within SL to help you out. The owner of a sim can not be held for violation of the TOS for deleting items (even all of them) on a sim that they own. This is a risk (and one that no one seems to think about or understand) that you take when you rent land. The only sure fire way to protect yourself is to own it yourself.

Sure it sucks that this happens and I would be pissed off too. I have had malls that I rented at close unexpectedly and return my objects, and in one case delete them. Same thing different scale. I was pissed, but there was nothing I could do about it.

You want control over your land? Tier up, buy land and keep it as your own or as the only officer in a group. Any other way and you are taking your chances.

Sorry for your loss my furry friends, it totally sucks, but as SL is now I don't see that you have any recouse against the person or persons who did this, they were well within thier rights and ability within the current structure of SL to do what they did

if your name is not on the charter of the island, you have *ZERO* rights as far as the SL world is concerned.

thats the nature fo the beast, you do not have any rights to 'rented' island land, its why i was so adamantly opposed to begin with, the very idea of 'selling' the land on an island is *BEGGING* to be abused, and be abused it has.

If it was free to acquire, like mainland group leasing basically is, that would be another story, but it is being *LISTED* as land for sale, and thats just plain out lying to people who don't know any better.

Thats exactly why i hope LL will research this mess and publish a logg who did what when.

And i know a lot of "LandBarons" <in a way i am self a baroness> wich try very hard to be fair and honest to the ones wich rent off them.

And no matter if the person in question did it or not, EVERYONE who invest a lot of money into a isle and rents out gets hurt by the rumors.

There are a lot of people able to afford a quarter isle but not pay upfront to get one, consider how much less areas fun to explore there would be without someone coughing up the fees to start a isle.

I agree too, that there are plenty of good people who try hard to make it work, but the system is *NOT* 'buying' land, its renting it, or leasing it, and any 'purchase' confusion generally stems *DIRECTLY* from the misleading way the system is represented in game.

If you want the security of ownership, at some point, you gotta take that plunge, mebbe do it as a group, with friends whom you trust and respect, and mebbe you'll really have something, a single 'unknown' owner tho, whom you are beholden to at their whim, is just a recipe for problems, for any 'theme'/'group' kind of ambitious sim wide deal, like the forest

Y'all are forgetting one MAJOR POINT: WHO OWNED THE SIM?

Apparently, Anshe Chung owned it. If others were using it and creating problems on HER PROPERTY, she is entitled to do whatever she d*mn well pleases in order to deal with the situation.

If your property was on HER PROPERTY, it was at risk from the get-go. Buy your own land to play your games.

From the fine styled:

http://www.anshechung.com/index.php?fct=DREAMLAND_FURRIES

RENTING
Land in this sim is available for rent for 2400 L$ monthly (30 days) per 1024 sqm. There is no upfront investment necessary nor do you have to pay land tier fees.

BUYING
There is also the option of "owning" land. You pay a one time purchase price and you don't pay rent. This ownership is transferable if you decide to sell it to another SL resident. It is permanent as long as you don't violate the sim's zoning rules and terms of service. You have to pay tier fees.

There are some differences compared to land ownership on the mainland that you should be aware of:

o As long as the sim exists it will be administered by ANSHECHUNG.COM. To receive the land you will have to setup your own land ownership group with at least 3 accounts as members. You then invite Anshe Chung or Guni Greenstein temporarily as officer to this group and we deed you the land.

o You pay your tier fees to ANSHECHUNG.COM via PayPal. You do not pay Linden Lab. Rates are comparable to those charged by Linden Lab. For the same money, smaller land owners often get more land from us than they would be able to get elsewhere

TERMINATION
In case of termination of the project a notice will be sent at least two weeks in advance. Proceeds from possible liquidation of the sim will be split among land owners proportional to their ownership share and prepayments for rent or tier will of course be refunded.


/Tina

I have stated in other threads that Anche Chung, as sim owner, was technically within her rights to reformat the quarter of the Forest that she admits to evicting tenants from and deleting. I think she handled it very badly, in that no advance warning was given. This violates her own Dreamland policies for pre-paid tenants, as quoted by another poster in the posts above this one. I also think she violated the Forest Rules, rules for the sim which explicitly state the sim is to remain group-owned lands, and in so doing she betrayed the expectations of her tenants, who built that sim and community long before she purchased it. There was no "problem" in that area before she deleted that quarter without warning. Yes, she received major griefing after she did that. But that wouldn't have happened if she had tried to communicate with people first. There was no reason that I can see for her to have violated her own policies and evicted those people without warning.

The person I have an issue with, the one I want punished severely, is whoever deleted THE REST OF THE SIM, some time between 3 AM and 7 AM US Central time that night. That may or may not be Anshe, or one of her alts. She says it wasn't her, and I am not accusing her or her alts. I'll want to see what an official Linden investigation says, and I will abide by that. The Forest could have survived what Anshe did to that one quarter. The destruction of everything else shattered the community, and the majority of them are now leaving that sim, seeking safer places to live and play. Whoever did that, and there's a very limited number of individuals with that capability, should be punished as severely as possible.

I went to The Forest today, to update my store there. I was almost in tears. While there has been some effort to rebuild it, the sim remains devistated and largely empty. I seriously doubt that my sales at the Forest Store will continue to be anything worth reporting, since I see little there now to attract customers, other than the store itself. But I have months of time pre-paid on my vending space there. I don't expect any possibility of getting any sort of 'refund' on my pre-paid time, so I'll keep my store there open, and see if Anshe and those willing to remain in that sim can rebuild anything there that is worth visiting. If she can, and if she can regain the trust of the furries, or of other tenants, more power to her. I would like to see something beautiful rise from the ashes there.

Oh, and for the record, the people renting apartments in The Forest were not under the Dreamland rental agreement. That was a Forest Friends and Fans group-run cooperative effort, with funds raised going into the coffers of the group for the sim. Funds which, like the store, could have been and were used to pay Anshe's tier payments for the sim. Before Anshe reformatted that one quarter, it was impossible for anyone in The Forest to purchase land there. It was, as it had been from the beginning, a group-owned project.

For myself, I've purchased land elsewhere, from a sim owner who I trust. I'll be working in several sims to build safe and pleasant places for furries and others to live and play. But for now, I won't put a single prim in The Forest other than my store. And I'm very leery of doing anything on land that Dreamland controls.

i have heard from the people running the groups that they are trying to come back with something new, and that those who had time will have their time honored if/when they can pull that through together again.

Here's hoping they do manage to get things going for themselves, it really sucks to see any community torn apart because someone didn't find them 'profitable' enough...

Its why we have always, and will always own all our own land, and have repeatedly and steadfastly fought any notion of 'selling out' to anyone who thinks for some reason we would be 'better off' under their 'benevolant' guidance.

Screw that. We've given far far too much blood sweat and tears to get what we have to ever allow someone's finger to be on our 'big red button.'

He who sups with the devil...













... is a damn fool!

eltee, we already ordered the sim and are awaiting LL confirmation of when it will be expected to come online. The name chosen for our new sim is Serenity Woods and it will be located in the northern part of The Vallies next to Wolf Valley and above FlyinTails Airfield.

All rental time WILL be honored unless someone wishes to recieve a refund. Our community will grow stronger from this as we've seen support come from all over SL even in the form of Laisons in forms of donations (both L$ & USD), content, and morale support.

Normally it takes 2 weeks for a sim to come online so we have enough time to put together an organised build team to build up our new home and fine tune our gameplan. We do know we will be making an open market for PG/Not-Rated vendors with a two story mall for the mature & adult rated vendors. We'll also be offering land for rent as well as low income apartments and a larger sandbox. And of course we'll be bringing back our money tree for those new to SL wich will actually have our original tree we used for the money tree back in The Forest.

I had visited there one last time to say my goodbyes to my former home (its been my 2nd home for almost a year) and when I rezzed in my old home point, the first thing I saw in the distance was the only tree left on the east cost. This is the tree I planted to give back to the very community that nurtured me as a noob when I became a Forest Guide. I was in awe how it survived Anshe claiming that very corner and a sim wipe, so I decided it was fitting to bring back a piece of The Forest with us to be transplanted in our new home Serenity Woods as a symbol that our community can and will survive this.

sounds great ron, yer gonna make alot of people happy with that announcement.

Well I'll be damned.. Serenity Woods just came online now.

Yes. I've seen your new Island. It should be quite beautiful, once trees have been planted, and other improvements have been made. Even in it's raw state, it looks better than The Forest does now.

I am very happy with the new sim, and proud to be part of the team. The store is coming along fine. I would have used our old store i had backed up but since its the only thing that still stands in the forest, its probably best to not Duplicate it. I am very thankful to all wishing to help, and those who have. It goes to show that our community is strong.

So many people are offering to help build for us too. While we are more then capable, we have accepted. ^.^ We already had our share of troublemakers aswell, but that was a continuing story id prefer not to discuss. All and all i have to say it's a great start. I hope we make this "Woods" look like Woods. When the "Forest" started it looked more like a bunch of random buildings and pine trees.

'TWINKIES FOR ALL!'

I agree. What you guys need is a 200 meter tall tree taking about 8000 prims right smack-dab in the middle of the sim!

I agree. What you guys need is a 200 meter tall tree taking about 8000 prims right smack-dab in the middle of the sim!