Neualtenburg Constitution

You claimed to be a scripter. Are you going to help? You did join these discussion to help build a themed city right? If so join the Guild.

sounds like a plan --just keep the debauchery at a PG level -- Anzere is PG

I'm personally going to set the town square to damage tonight and chase Ace around with a push gun. I bet that clown hat will look great attached to his body as it summersaults out of the sim.

Ace, I do think we will eventually open up the project exactly as you suggest. It's just a matter of time. My guess is that it might happen after the first governmental term. Assuming it's a 2 month term (might be 4 months), it could be as soon as the 15th of March, just in time for the triumphant rise of the Costume Party to power on the 1st of April.

~Ulrika~

Wee haw!!!!! Sounds like a fun time in Neualtenberg tonight!

I'll reword the Event description to let everyone know that they can bring weapons, because the town square is going to be damage enabled.

Please ensure that it is so by the time the Event begins, Ulrika.

- Ace

Wait! Don't tell people to bring weapons. Instead I have a copyable "push pillow" for pillow fights that can toss people 30 m into the air. We'll chat for a while and then I'll distribute the the pillows.

We can all let off some steam.

~Ulrika~

I would compare the Costume Party's entrance to Neualtenberg similar to the one made by SDF at Hamlet's post-election discussion.

- Ace

I was not there as a representative of the SDF. The SDF is an SL political faction and doesn't take a stance on RL issues. Kendra and I were there because Hamlet personally asked us as individuals to create a piece of 3D political art for his discussion (which won first prize in the anti-Bush category).

While I did stir things up during the question-and-answer session at the end, it was done to express that discussions such as his are invariably morally detached from the death and suffering of the civilian victims of war. One of the ways to make people aware of their moral detachment, is to discuss casualties directly and the roles we all play in those deaths through our votes and tax payments. How could it not be emotional, when people are asked to consider their role in killing civilians? How could it not be emotional, when people are asked how many civilian deaths in their name are acceptable?

I believe you entered the group by calling us names for what greater good I do not know. I agree it was controversial but that's where the similarities end.

Nonetheless, I'm happy you're in the group now and appreciate all the items and particle scripts you've contributed. I've incorporated some of them into the pipe and even animated the torch you sent me. I'll send you a copy shortly.

~Ulrika~

The Costume Party has several comments to the proposed constitution. Alternative proposals may follow later...



Whoa there!

Point #1 - Let's word things appropriately. Perhaps you should be saying "The SDF proposes this constitution", as opposed to stating what will happen, as if its a fait accompli.

Point #2 - Whether or not the city shall exist as a "Social Democracy" seems to be a bit presumptive to me as well. What if a majority of the citizenry would prefer a laizzez faire capitalist approach to the economic functioning of the city. Are we going to codify this into a constitution, or make such fundamental decisions in a democratic fashion. The Costume Party can understand the SDF's preference for a social democracy, but to make such a fundamental economic structure a part of the core document that defines rights and responsibilities seems a bit heavy handed.



I beg your pardon? The Representative Branch shall exist only to serve the collective by facilitating communication and holding meetings?

The Costume Party would propose a representative branch that empowers the citizenry to not only communicate proposals, but to reflect the will of the people. The citizenry should be the ultimate arbiters and decision makers, and not mere communication vehicles and meeting holders.



The Costume Party supports the creation of this Artisanal Branch, subject to the condition that all members of this branch, including its officers and leaders, serve only with the advise and consent of the Representative Branch.



A "leftist meritocracy"? Sounds like a recipe for political correctedness, if you ask me.

If we are to accept this fundamental precept for Philosophic Branch, along with its power to "overturn laws" that it determines don't make philopohical sense, and the power to pass laws that the Representative Branch has for whatever reason no decided to pass, then we might as well say "The Polical Branch shall make all crucial decisions, and we won't let you be a part of this unless you're a leftist who buys the whole approach of whoever is in the Philosophic Branch at the moment, because if you don't, we won't consider you meritous".

Just as with the Artisanal Branch, the Philosophic Branch shall have to serve with the advice and consent of the citizenry, as reflected by the Representative Branch. Anything less will only lead to autocratic decision making.



Scary is the term that the Costume Party would use.

- Ace

The Artisinal Branch does not recognize the opinion of any political faction of the Representative Branch to determine it's internal policies.

The Artisinal Branch is nothing more than a mere proposal at this time, so The Costume Party wonders how it can do anything at this point, much less recognize the opinion of a political faction?

- Ace

The Artisinal Branch exists currently --government or no --as "The Guild".
What factions vying for position within the as yet unformed Representative Branch view as needed for "The Guild" is a moot point.

Whether or not the RB eventually chooses to recognize the importance of the worker is another matter --one The Guild will not take lightly.

The Costume Party would like to understand this dynamic then. Perhaps you could enlighten us.

There shall be 3 branches of government... One is the Artisinal, which can build and do as it pleases, with no regard to the citizenry, as expressed through the Representative Branch. The other is the Philosophic Branch, which is to be chartered with maintaining "order", yet does not answer to the citizenry either.

Furthermore, these 2 incredibly powerful branches of government, are presumptively headed by Kendra and Ulrika respectively.

If I'm not missing something here, then I would like to propose the following article to the constitution -

Proposed Article - The city shall be known as "The Kendra and Ulrika Show".

- Ace

First --Political Factions are creature of the RB.

Second- The Artisinal Branch is open to all citizens who wish to contribute TO the City by any number of skill sets-- so not only is it answerable to the citizenry --it IS ostensibly the citizenry.

The RB is not the citizenry as you maintain --it is the administrative wing of the government --as such it has zero business determining the will of the artisans. The RB already has say in City structures by being the branch that "commisions" said structures.

Your strawman arguement, notwithstanding.

I highly resent your implication. My stance is to prevent control of artists by non-artists --artists by nature do not flourish in a mob-rule democracy.

If that is your position, then I will repeat my concerns that this is turning into a pet project that seems to be going in the direction of being entirely at the whim of a few. Its is a giant leap between recognizing the rights of the majority, and "mob-rule".

Plesae don't confuse The Constume Party's concern about the structure of power with meddling into the artistic nature of "artists". You can build to your little heart's content, and we won't stand in your way. But if you want to build in the name of a city that is structured with some form of self-governmen, then be prepared for the "self" part of a self-government that doesn't necessarily fall lock-step in with your artistic vision.

I will reiterate the concerns... There are 3 branches of government under the proposed constitution, and the power within these 3 branches seems to fall far away from being a vehicle for the citizenry to express themselves, and more into an autocratic, pre-ordained system that allows a few to dictate the entire direction of the city.

The Costume Party will not stand for such nonsense.

- Ace

An alternative Constitution... Comments and changes are encouraged.

Preamble

The City of Neualtenberg, being an exercise of self-government within Second Life, shall be governed by a Parliamentary Democracy that strives to both express the will of the majority, and protect the interests of the minority.

Article I

Parliament shall consist of 15 elected representatives, with representation proportional to the number of votes received by the various factions within the city. Each faction shall determine who shall represent their proportion of this 15 within the Parliament. Elections shall be held at least every 6 months, although a majority of Parliament may call for new elections at any time before a 6 month mandate has expired. There shall pass a minimum of 2 weeks between a call for new elections, and the actual voting.

Article II

Parliament shall elect from amongst themselves, an Executive which shall be responsible for the execution and implementation of all legislation that is passed by the Parliament. The executive shall consist of 3 ministers; these being Prime Minister, Minister of Finance, and Minister of Justice. No one individual shall hold more than one of these portfolios.

Article III

Parliament shall be empowered to legislate the following :

- Taxes and other revenue sources
- Land use, including aesthetic requirements
- Land acquisition
- The creation of dispute resolution boards of arbitration below the Supreme Arbitrators
- Legal mechanisms to protect the Charter of Citizens' Rights

All legislation shall be done within the spirit of preserving the nature of the snow sims, as mandated by Linden Lab.

Article IV

The Minister of Justice shall, as vacancies arise, nominate individuals for positions amongst the Supreme Arbitrators, and Parliament shall confirm such nominations. The Supreme Arbitrators shall consist of 3 citizens of Neualtenberg, and anyone appointed shall serve until they either resign or have their citizenship revoked. The Supreme Arbitrators shall define their own rules of evidence and procedure, and the rules of the lessor boards.

Article V

Citizenship in the City of Neualtenberg shall be open to all who are willing to contribute a minimum of 256 square meters of land tier to the city group. However, voting rights for all citizens are equal, and are not weighted in favor of those who contribute more than 256 m2. Those who wish to leave the City, shall give at least 7 days notice before removing their land contribution.

Each citizen shall be granted a "parcel" within the city upon which they can create their homestead. This parcel shall be 50% of their contributed land, with the remaining 50% being land owned and controlled by the city as a whole.

Citizenship shall only be revoked by clear, or consistent violations of the spirit of this constitutional democracy, or blatant disregard of the Charter of Citizens' Rights, and can only be done by unanimous verdict of the Supreme Arbitrators. In the event that a member of the Supreme Arbitrators is having their citizenship questioned, Parliament shall elect a 3rd arbitrator for this verdict only.

Article VI

This constitution shall become the governing document of the city upon a vote of at least 2/3 of the citizenry of the city.

Article VII

Parliament may propose amendments to this constitution, which must then be ratified by a vote of at least 2/3 of the citizenry of the city.

Article VIII

Parliament shall not pass any law that violates the Charter of Citizens' Rights.

The Charter of Citizens' Rights are :

- All citizens shall have the right to free speach
- All citizens shall have the right to peacefully assemble
- All citizens shall have the right to create objects on their personal parcel that voice disagreement with the government, and express their views or aesthetics
- All citizens shall have the right to have disputes fairly judged by the Supreme Arbitrators or any lessor boards of arbitration that might be created by Parliament.
- All citizens shall have the right to petition Parliament for redress of grievances

There are some good ideas in there which are already part of our government and some which are not.

I recommend coming up with a descriptor for this type of system and spawning it as an alternative government that could be implemented in another region. That way we could compare and contrast the systems and their relative benefits.

I'm currently finishing up our first draft of the constitution and should have it up shortly. It's taking quite a bit of time as we've had hundreds of posts that I have to sort through.

~Ulrika~

I don't think The Costume Party understands the nature of and reach of political partys in the Neualtenburg Government. Political Partys have zilch to do with the Artisinal Branch.

Political Partys are born of the RB. If you wish to enact change within The Guild --join The Guild. Frankly, I find your patronizing manner as the phrase "build to your little heart's content" suggests, to be the exact sort of wellspring from which exploitation of the artisan comes forth.

I would encourage you to read the documents, so far placed on the forums, to see how wrong you are about the proposed Artisinal Branch. As stands it remains the only Branch open to all citizens.

To heck with that... and Kendra's response too, both of which seem to imply that the constitution of Neualtenberg, as currently proposed by Ulrika is the only alternative, and that the relative powers and responsibilities of the components is a done deal

The Lindens have offered the land upon which Neaultenberg resides as a chance to exercise self-government. There are many possible frameworks upon which this government can be based. Ulrika's is one possibility. The Parliamentary Democracy of the constitution that I have offered is another.

If the debate is coming down to "our way, or the highway", then The Costume Party will be making lots of noise and ensuring that such nonsense does not get shoved down the throats of those who might have different visions. I would hope that the Lindens have offered this chance at self-government to ALL of the residents of Second Life, and not just a chosen few.

Until the Constitution is formally adopted, then all options should be open for discussion. If all options are not under consideration, and alternatives are to be dismissed out of hand, please let us know now so I can start doing what I can to derail this little charade.

While its wonderful that the SDF has a vision of what self-government should look like, to imply that alternatives should go play somewhere else is disempowering to all who may differ.

- Ace

Ace, I'm glad to see the effort you put into outlining a proposal for a Constitution! However, I must admit that after seeing that Ulrika was spending all her weekend writing a draft, based on our discussions in the forums, I would prefer to use that as a "starting base".

What the Costume Party proposes is a completely different model - under it, the Guild would become just a "Trade Union" (certainly a strong lobby and pressure group, but not a key element of Government), and the Philosophical Branch, or the University, would just be something like a "debating forum" and a second lobby group.

While certainly the CP's proposal is a pretty "standard" constitution - ie. a very traditional form of government, with an Executive Branch and a Cabinet - there are a few points I don't like:

1) Supreme Arbitrators are nominated/appointed by the Ministry of Justice. I'm more used to a system where Justice is independent of Government, ie. the elected officials. I know that the US elect some of their law-enforcing officials, but I traditionally view Justice as something unrelated to "elections" or "political parties". The worse-case scenario is the one you propose: during a long mandate (6 months!), justice officers are nominated by the Government - which means that Justice is completely under control of the Cabinet! I sincerely don't like that idea (however, I don't have anything against the idea of a "Ministry of Justice" - dealing with all bureaucracy related to dispute resolution, but not passing the judgment itself).

2) There are no "check systems" whatsoever. This means that the only way to "control" what the Executive Branch is doing is... by new elections, or by revolution (the sole exception being Constitutional changes, which, under your system, would require a referendum). "Evolution through revolution" sounds too marxistic to me I prefer a much stronger system of balances and checks. Note that under your system it's hard to get new elections before the 6 months are over - even with petitioning from the citizens, if there is a majority group in Parliament (the coalition currently nominating the Executive), they most likely won't accept that petition.

3) The concept of citizenship is tied to land ownership. While this certainly is fitting for a "medieval" setting - ie. only the landlords (aristocracy/nobility) have a saying in the ruling of the land - it's certainly not right for a "medieval city setting". While the Projekt vaguely states "The city will be based loosely on the 13th Century walled city of Rothenburg, Germany", and this is certainly possible to interpret in different ways, medieval cities at that time where almost all ruled by the "burgeoisie" (mostly meaning the merchants and the artisans in their guilds) - not the nobility. Nobility ruled the land (and perhaps some smaller towns); cities were self-ruled, and their governments usually did not own land. Actually the constitution proposed by Ulrika does not envision a special body to defend/protect landowners' rights and powers. I have proposed a silly way to do that on this thread. It will be much more fun to do than thinking about additional branches of government

Of course we have to allow for some leeway in "recreating" the medieval setting (and certainly Die Gilde as proposed by Kendra is loosely inspired on actual guilds, and were Neualtenburg a "faithful recreation" of a medieval city, Die Gilde would run it without a silly Representative Branch ). Nevertheless, there are poor people living in Neualtenburg who cannot afford contributing to tier and are still willing to participate and work for the common good (say, as apprentices in the Guild). Shouldn't they be allowed to be citizens as well?


All in all, I think this certainly could be an "alternative constitution", but it deserves some more thinking. Again, one of the goals of the Costume Party could certainly be defending a new constitution as soon as the first elections are over and the "regular work" at the Representative Assembly is started!

You give a lot of lip service to what the majority wants --and yet ignore all the work on the Constitution done before you got here --work that, quite frankly, Ulrika and I are only a fractional part of.

It is you, Ace, who are delivering the "my way or the highway" approach.
While you are correct that the Constitution is not yet finished --much careful multilateral work HAS been done on it.

Your Parliamentary Government is indeed a fine idea --it is not what has been arrived at by mutual consensus of the majority you seem to hold so dear. Sorry to burts your bubble --but what exists is just as much Talen's, Gwyneth's, Kathy's, Pendari's, Phineas', Satchmo's, Billy's, Bladedancer's, Ursula's, etc etc etc. (sorry if I've left out names -- I'm damned angry)

By all means --make your revised Government a part of your Costume Party's platform, but don't insult everyone who has worked on what we so far have by claiming that they are somehow sheep being led by such horrible people as you paint Ulrika and I.

I frankly don't think you've read a bit of what's been arrived at --or have a the slightest idea as to how it's been arrived at.

This isn't the Ulrika and Kendra show -- but you would seem to wish it to be the Ace Cassidy show. So far --I'm not seeing the comedy or satire you proposed would be an element to your party.

Getting slightly off-topic here... so did I. Actually, Lindens DID offer this chance at self-government a few months ago, through a very debated and heated argument started by Robin Linden herself. There were, uh, I think almost 5000 posts on the subject (I lost count), and about 97.5% of them (yes, I counted them at one time) were "NO TO SELF-GOVERNMENT IN SECOND LIFE OR ELSE!". This made Robin retract LL's own proposal, and, indirectly, have a smallish group of similarly aligned people meet together and create the basis of what became Neualtenburg.

So, it seems that self-government is "not for all"... because the residents of SL do not want it. LL certainly would love to have it for all, and not for just the "chosen few".

This is why I once stated that we have got several people's attention - both of the Lindens, as well as from a large group of SL residents who are scared about our ideas. Most of those 97.5% anarchists would simply love to have Neualtenburg fail just to be able to tell the Lindens: "see, we were right". Unfortunately for them, we are quite stubborn around here and do not give up easily

It's hard to be a comediant, and be serious about it as well

Long live the Monthy Python and their nonsense humour

That's interesting that you mention majority interests above. I was discussing the difficulty of creating a constitution with friends over dinner a few nights ago. Someone made the insightful comment that individuals, when charged with creating a novel system of governance, will always assume that they are part of a majority and will seek to consolidate power in that assumed majority. She recommended instead that everyone should assume that they will be in the minority and work on the structure assuming they have to protect themselves against the majority.

I think if Ace got his way with his proposed system he'd find himself not in the majority but the suffering at the hands of some other majority with the rest of us.

~Ulrika~

I am sorry Ace. But I find this statement very insulting. Not to mention it is simply not true. As Kendra stated above, this constitution in its current form (the draft of which Ulrika is working on getting posted) was arrived at by the thoughts and work of many people. It is when you make statements like these that I find it very hard to believe that you are truely interested in the project and have taken the time to read everything that has come before you. Why should anyone give you the respect and time to read your ideas (some of which I'm sure are very good) when you have clearly not given us the same time and respect in return?

Sorry I've been lax with the holiday weekend and have found better fighting in another forum for a bit...but now that I've purged the pie from my system I'm ready to get back to work.

For anyone thta noticed I pulled 2000 meters of my tier from the project I had to do some land changing and needed it for a bit. I noticed we were over anyway and made sure not to take more than we have alloted.

Anyway... The constitution as it stands so far has been a hard won fight on all sides and while there are other ideas to consider we need to work with what we have now. We are getting closer to election time and need to have a lot of things in place by then.

I suggest we have a meeting in world some time this week to get some face time in with eachother and start to really hammer out what we have been discussing.