Hamlet, Ulrika, and Neualtenburg

I thought you all might be interested in Hamlet's blog entry concerning his "Red Staters Meet the World" event. Towards the end in the comment section he and I discussing what I feel are edits (additions and omissions) to the transcript which have introduced a bias.

http://secondlife.blogs.com/nwn/2004/11/red_staters_mee_4.html

In his blog and comments Hamlet describes the entire city of Neualtenburg as "left leaning". Despite my first attempt to correct him, he seems to hold fast to this notion. If you so fancy, feel free to add a comment to the blog to let him and other readers know that we are in fact a diverse group.

~Ulrika~

Erm, Ulrika, the fact that it's socialist, and the fact that you yourself described the government as 'leftist' on your site might have something to do with it @_@

Or the fact that the Philosophical Branch is a "leftist meritocracy"...

- Ace

I'm not leftist and Hamlet shouldn't paint us all into one box. If he's supposed to be a reporter he should get the facts first....

So far then with three branches we have:

A left leaning Philosophical Branch
A right wing Capitalist Artisinal Branch
And a moderate leaning Representative Assembly

I fail to see how this makes for a total left-leaning government.

Ulrika, it is a laughable concept that Neualtinburg is not "left leaning". If not then just tell me where all of the conservatives are that support this projekt. And while you are at it explain to everyone why YOU discourage diversity in thought as you have done in the post I have pasted below from the Church thread.
/103/43/27705/5.html


You support a church that only "inclusive denominations" are welcome. Hypocrisy at it's finest. You would create an exclusive church for inclusive religions. If those religions were in fact inclusive they would never join a church that is not inclusive too. By it’s very nature you wish to create a church that is prejudice to your own "left leaning" views and is in fact NOT inclusive at all.

Furthermore you state plainly that the city will not work with or in fact is interested in hearing opinions that are contrary to your own. For those that may not have read that thread, your refusal to address my questions about your stance has given me no choice but to end my participation in Neualtinburg because it is apparent that you, it's leader, are not open minded or interested in diversity within the walls of Neualtinburg.

After my withdrawal from participating in this project I do not know of even one person that is part of the city who has come out and said they are conservative. Yes, there are a couple of moderates but as far as this city not being "left leaning" that is just not the truth. Neualtinburg is very much “left leaning” and to deny that is not based upon facts but rhetoric.

As for the anti-Bush rally, you ran rough shot over anyone who wanted to have a say in whether that took place or not. You jeopardized your own project for selfish reasons and lost the only other conservatives I knew of because you chose to alienate and segregate yourselves from anyone who might not agree with you. Let's face it. You interested in diversity in thought as long as everyone agrees with you.

I do know for a fact that there are still some people who are involved that are trying their best to create something new and interesting where liberals, moderates and conservatives alike can participate and coexist in a unique project but it is my opinion now that it is just a pipe dream which has very little chance of succeeding. That said I do hope this is overcome somehow but I for one just do not see it happening.

Kendra, exactly who are all of those "right wing" artists that are in your guild? I am VERY interested in hearing your answer.

Did you really type this with a straight face on?

The last I heard, the Artisinal Branch was more of a worker's guild that would threaten to strike if the Representative Branch didn't toe the line.

Right wing, indeed.

pfft....

- Ace

I don't know any RW politics of Guild members -- I, frankly, thought we were trying to avoid that -- but the overall structure of the group is not left wing by any notion I've ever seen.

It actually operates more along the lines of Ayn Rand then Karl Marx.

You'd be correct if the AC was simply a "trade union". It isn't. It's a government sanctioned corporation.

It treads closer to corporate fascism then it does to socialism.

so pfffft on you.

Paint it in whatever colors you like, I still have a hard time equating the Artisinal Branch with "corporate fascism".

You crack me up...

- Ace

really? I find you to be
rather dull.

Perfect!! You should go post this on Hamlet's blog Kendra!

Thank you for the heads up Ulrika, I have posted twice already on the blog now.

Billy, I responded to you there, so I won't cut and paste it here.

And Talen, as much as I have always loved Hamlet, he is actually pretty well known for being biased and not always accurate.

Ulrika!!!! She called me "rather dull"!!!

Make her apologize.

*sniff sniff*... I feel so unworthy without Kendra's stamp of approval.

- Ace

Avoid the question if you must. Is there not even ONE conservative in your so called "right wing" Artisinal Branch?

You can't have it both ways Kendra. It was YOU who chose to label YOUR group as "right wing". Now back it up by sharing all of the conservative artists out there in your group. You will not because they do not exist. Furthermore YOU are one of the most extreme left people I know and are the leader of the "right wing" artisianl Branch. Does anyone else see the hilarity of this fact? "Right wing" Artisinal Branch... What a crock.

You do plan on actually being funny at some point, right? It's all well and good to spout opinion, but try and base it on facts -- maybe read what we actually post, as opposed to conflating it with our "RW" politics. I may be a lean mean socialist in the real world, but the AC is by no means reflective of my personal politics --despite Billy's and Your's failure to grasp that fact.


The fact is that the AC adheres to 3 out of 4 points of corporate fascism, those being

"Government-business 'partnerships' are formed to organize new initiatives designed to improve or expand existing major businesses and industries.

Major industries which are deemed essential are planned centrally, with the collusion of both politicians and prominent corporate executives. This central planning seeks market 'order,' disdaining the 'chaos' which is actually the complexity of independent action within a free market.

Mercantilism and protectionism are established to favor major domestic industries at the expense of foreign imports. In a fascist economy, the people who live outside of the borders of the state are considered means for the profit of industries within the state, rather than partners for mutual advantage."

Billy -- it was decided, at the very meeting you were at, not to conflate RW and SL. I have not asked the RW politics of one single member of The AC --nor will I --as it is besides the point.

In RW --I am very leftist --Infact I'd go so far as to say I'm an outright unabashed communist. Do you think I'm incapable of assuming a right wing mantle for the purposes of a cyber experiment in Government? No one questions Talen acting as a moderate (he's doing a fine job of it BTW).

Right wing does not mean your RW evangelist christian hoodoo btw --nor does it have anything to do with your version of America. Leftists and Rightist philosophies exist outside the purvue of the USA --and they have, as was indicated in the meeting where Ulrika and I were (rightly) called on mixing RW versus SL politics, nothing to do with the workings of the Neualtenburg Projekt.

No crock, Billy -- not in the slightest.

Very well stated Kendra!

Hypocrite! Point at the meeting where we decided to not mix RW politics with Neualtinburg politics but label yourself as “right wing” in defense of Hamlet saying that it is “left leaning”. LIVE BY WHAT YOU PREACH. YOU CAN NOT HAVE IT BOTH WAYS. DO NOT LABEL YOURSELF AS “RIGHT WING” IF YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO BACK IT UP WHEN QUESTIONED!!!!!



Ummm… yes. Your posts in these forums support that.


That is because he is acting like a moderate. You are certainly NOT acting like a right winger. That is laughable.


ROFL… TY for putting your unbiased feelings on display for everyone to see. Is there ANYONE out there that thinks you could even close to “act” like a right winger? You are as prejudice and intolerant a person I have ever met and your words prove it.


RIGHT WING ARTISINAL BRANCH!!! To call it anything but a lie IS a crock.

Hamlet rarely lets his writings be tainted by facts as they only serve to make entries less controversial and less worth getting worked up about. Obtaining facts would also require work, and unlike mainstream reporters, Hamlet doesn't have the convenience of press releases handed to him ready for wordsmithing into his own "story".

Since Billy is insisting that we carry on this conversation in two places, I will cut and paste my post from the blog to here as well:

I didn't label myself as right wing. I labeled the AC as being corporatism (which is right wing). Kendra is herself a member of a left wing political party: SDF.

The AC is not a political faction BTW --it's a governmental branch.

The meeting in question was the first meeting you attended. Pendari posted the logs.

BTW --I preach nothing. That would seem to be your job.

Again --do not conflate my RW beliefs and politics with what I think best benefits The AC and the City of Neualtenburg.

I believe I have backed myself up very well, Billy.





In what way have I presented the AC as anything but what I've laid out for all to see?
Do you understand that corporatism is right wing?

Billy, if somebody's words proved beyond a doubt who they are ---I would imagine your own words speak volumes to everyone reading them.

this may be true....maybe he should stick to fashion and skin stories then.

As for conservitive people within the project ....there is you Billy and there are others that I won't out for the sake of this bullshit. Billy you're obviously pissed off about the whole church issue and honestly I don't understand why...please to explain it to me so we can try and get it settled and move on...

I am glad to hear that Talen. Maybe you should encourage them to become involved because I do not even know of one other than myself.

My problem is that I confronted Ulrika with serious issues about her post and instead of answering them and possibly admitting fault she chose to stand by her post by her silence. If you look at the rest of us involved in the discussion there was some very good work being done between Gwynith, Kathy and myself. Ulrika then chose to matter of factly but in and proclaim that “concessions” would not be made to anyone who had an opinion other than hers regarding the church.

When the leader of the project does that it is inexcusable to not respond when confronted. I simply cannot follow a leader who is so intolerant. She needs to be accountable for what she said and is unwilling to. Her post and response opened my eyes to how little she is interested in hearing anything but “I agree with you Ulrika”. Since she is unwilling to respond I have no choice but to point out her actions and withdraw my support.

Once again I do respect what you and Pendari are trying to do and I wish you well but I just do not see an environment filled with diversity in Neualtinburg. Repeatedly it has been Ulrika’s way regardless of what anyone else thinks.

I hope that was conveyed clearly enough that you understand my position.

I'm not a leftist, I'm an Up-ist