Stairs or Ramps? Or Neither?

Quick question on providing entry and exit to built spaces. I want to be careful not to import RL navigation (first person) thinking into SL. That raise the issue of weather it is preferable to provide a stairway or a ramp to enter a space? Or should I simply allow visitors to fly in.

Yes, of course teleporting is an option but that feels a but like using a sledgehammer approach where perhaps a more subtle approach makes sense.

-Doug

This is an issue I've been thinking about off and on and it's a good one to raise. I think as wayfinding tools ramps and stairs help people not familiar with a build, like visitors to a commercial space, get in and around and out of it. I'll admit when I first came into SL I was frankly disappointed that given the ability to fly and ignore gravity that so much of the architecture at least superficially ignores this. My builds show I'm pretty guilty of it myself. I would love to see builds that address the challenges of making them usable to anyone who happens on them without requiring a handbook, but that throw out the more obvious cues like ramps, stairs, windows...

I would hope others post here with examples of creative solutions to this design problem.

I'd say the method of entry depends on the purpose of the build. You say teleporting feels like a sledgehammer approach but sometimes it can be the right one, say if you want your build to feel as if it's a different space from the rest of SL.

Ramps vs. stairs is really a question of the style of the build and the number of prims you have to work with. I mean, you could have a dragon flying avatars in if you wanted.

It's really dependent on context. Ramps with a stair texture work really well. If you are going to use stairs, it helps to get the spacing right, so that it's not a grind to walk up. It also gobbles prims (but looks great).

Spiral staircases generally suck. They look nice, but are a pain to use. The camera gets lost, etc.

Subtle in-building teleporters are great (simple arrows, one touch directories). TPs that put you through a long drawn out star trek experience just to go one floor are amusing -- the first time --- and tedious thereafter.

Probably a little bit OT, but if your build is part of a system using a HUD, I quite like the idea of having clickable 'signs' of some description (or even a location-specific HUD menu) that move the camera to a nice viewpoint and walk the avatar into the next area.

Three words.

Tram. Po. Line.

or a cannon.

Shoot them up to your store!

*grin*

In most normal-sized builds, the extra prims needed to make a stairway between levels simply can not be justified. A ramp, possibly textured to look like stairs, is a better option.

SL architecture does not need to follow any of the RL conventions. We can teleport from floor to floor, texture and script walls to become opaque or transparent on command, make walls phantom... But people generally are more comfortable if they have real-world analogies to deal with.

I use a simple "sit elevator" to get people from one floor to another in most of my builds. Just requires one prim per floor, and the script that I use does not reqire all stops to be stacked in a line vertically. It's also great as a simple way to get to a skybox...

I generally use stairs for aesthetics, ramps if I'm low on prims, and tps for speed.

Hmm ramps for me being a bot, I know what wheelchair people must feel like I been to a couple of places now where flying isn't permitted and there are stairs I can't use, and bots can't jump either so I am prevented by a single step from entering a building, so I leave and politely IM the owner/builder

And one of my other alts is me, he really can't fly and only teleports because driving around doesn't work.

So ramps textured as stairs is fine too

Stairs or Ramps? Or Neither?

neither I use teleporters stairs are a pain and most ramps are as well. I did put one in on the side of one building but it was more for effect and to make the person look like they had their own little area or shop so it was completely psychological and not much else.

I've never found ramps with stair textures on very convincing.......

In a house I built I made lovely wooden stairs - not too many prins needed and the effect was worth it. In my club I have a long marble staircase - definately worth the primcount for dramatic effect. In my shop I have semi transparent ramps - they are totally functional and appropriate for a very modern environment.

Spiral staircases (ramps) are horrible - I have never known them to work.

All personal opinion - the answer is to walk around - visit places - see what works - experience beats logic every time and context is everything...

Cat x

I like the trampoline or cannon idea. Would never get boring

You could always have a phantom wall that people walk through. You could also make the outside transparent and the inside a solid texture as well. That way you can still use some of the wall space to hang up stuff.

One of the clubs in SL has you skydiving in. I thought that was kinda cool.

promenade architectural

the only reason to have stairs, ramps, teleporters, ec, is if you are making a multi-level build.

If you have two floors of scripted items close together (on the vertical axis), the close proximity of o many scripts may increase lag issues. If it is necessary, I prefer to place the extra floor up in the sky and connected by sit-teleporters.

There's also the issue of navigation. People normally navigate in two dimensions, and forcing a third on them can often be disorienting, especially if the extra levels aren't very distinct from each other. There's a reason most RL multi-level malls have maps every 20 metres.

Where I do have stairs, I prefer to make them as textured ramps, as it is more prim-efficient.

(incidentally, I'd love to know the exact vertical drop on each stair that would be needed to make a stair not treat the avatar on them as falling).

Not necessarily, they can be used as entrances to single-level builds too.

I believe this only applies if the scripted items are causing client updates (things like changing colour or playing sounds). Separating the floors by a large distance can speed things up by reducing the number of prims rendered at a time though.

NB: having multiple levels does not mean they have to be on top of one another.

If you've got the prims to make an entire staircase I'd expect you could spare one to put over the top as a transparent ramp.

I have built some ramps, but I think they look ugly. And they take up a lot of space. Recently I built my first real staircase with real steps. It takes up the same amount of space and a lot more prims, but I think it looks wonderful!

You know you can use one prim to make two steps, don't you? That already halves the number of prims needed...

Gang,

As the original instigator of this thread (kudos for all the excellent insights) I'd like to say a bit more about my particular use case:

Many of you remember interactive panoramas (Apple's QuicktimeVR). I thought it would be interesting to reprise the idea in SL. I've begun building large "sheds" (currently 4-sided, soon 6-sided when I get the entry/exit issue sorted) wallpapered with panoramic imagery. The idea is to create "hi-def" spaces that create a strong sense of place and are generally more visually impactful then what can be achieved using prims to model space.

From reading this thread I'm leaning more to using a sort of ramp/pedestal that visitors walk up allowing them to stand at the center of the space and get the full panoramic space. I will also provide SLURLs to take people directly to the center. Still a work in progress.

Very low prim count (six polygons for an entire space!) killer visuals. What's not to like? Anyone interested in learning more give me a shout out.

Thanks again for all the IQ in this forum. Very helpful.

Cheers,
Doug

Personally I'd use a sit teleporter to get people in/out of a space like that, it's essentially creating a space separate from the general SL space so a physical link is unnecessary and, IMHO, detracts from the experience.

Either that or set the outside of the box transparent and make the walls/ceiling phantom, giving the effect almost of a tear in the fabric of SL space exposing the alternate space on the other side that people can move into at their will.

AJ DaSilva,

I like where your head is at. A tear in the fabric of space, cool. Can you say a bit more about the "sit teleporter" idea. You lost me there.

-Doug

Just the usual sit target offset/unsit style teleporter, basically it's an object (any object, maybe a door standing in the middle of the ground - perhaps ajar with a scene on one side hidden by an invisiprim so you can only see it through the crack in the door) that's set to sit on click and then unsits the avatar straight away. The avatar ends up wherever the sit target points to. So you could have the box around 300m in the sky, when the user clicks on the door they're whisked away into your alternate space without having to know where it is.

My personal favourite:

- room to fly to different levels, and easy to navigate landing platforms.

- simple sit teleporters integrated in the architecture

- whenever a wall might interfere with the camera, have that wall at least 50% transparent

I only use ramps when I have to, or when lag is so bad that flying is too dangerous. I don't use mouselook often, and I don't like places where I have to navigate a labyrinth of walls.

I wish more builders would think about the differences between RL and SL, and find new ways of navigation.

(I know it is corporate and possibly evil, but I've seen lots of easy to navigate buildings and innovative ideas on the IBM islands.)

Stairs look great, but take a lot of space and are a huge primhog (especially if you want some really nice railing to go with it)
Ramps take just as much space, but need some tweaking to get right as well (too steep, and people will slide back down all the time, not steep enough, and it takes too much space again) But a ramp only needs one, maybe three prims.
Teleports take very little space, and need only 1 prim per teleporter (you'll want at least 2 though). I've heard complaints about teleports causing lag for people with slower computers though.

Over all, it's very situational. I just ask what a client likes best: lots of space or a very pretty view or a slightly less pretty view but saving loads of prims. And honestly, with a bit of taste you can even make a teleport look nice. It doesn't always have to be that boring black coneshape or those Stargate rings. I like a flattened sphere with a nice texture, half sunken into the ground, myself for example.

Transparent prims over staircases work wonderfully btw... No bump-bump-bump-bump...

As far as the panorama views on the sides of a box idea goes, I've seen a working model of a 360 degree panorama texture convincingly applied to the inside of a SPHERE... and even used for streaming VIDEO. Welcome to the future, boys and girls. Did you just feel the earth move too?

OH... MY... GOD!

What an amazing idea...... I never thought of that! Funny how solutions that are staring you in the face are so hard to see sometimes.....

Neat.