Intimate moments - Are you comfortable with one way windows?

Now, before anyone says it, yes, I know there is no such thing as privacy in SL, but you can "feel" more private mentally.

Say you have a house and a bedroom, or lounge, and you and your partner are having some private time together, perhaps some "bouncy bouncy" even

How do you feel if the windows on your house are see thru on the inside (so you can always see out) but go solid on the outside (so passing strangers can't just look in)

Although you know the windows are "not see through" on the outside, do you feel exposed and less comfortable than if the windows were solid on the inside also, meaning you can't just look out of (what is to you) clear glass at people wandering by, whilst you are in the middle of whatever it is you are doing?

Myself, I know I "feel" more private if I can't see outside too. Feel more enclosed and not on view.

I know it's only a mental thing, but that's just my "feeling" I wondered what the general feeling was?

Well, not engaging in that kind of things anywhere others are likely to be wandering by I can't really say much on it,
I do however build in a sandbox. usual in a box just below cloud level.
and my entire box is usually half alpha or better on the outside while completely solid on the inside so people can see in I don't see out
Call me crazy, but it's handy for object occlusion and a reasonably nice way to meet people.
You can also avoid things like vertigo or that strange dizzying sensation when you accidentaly turn the whole thing phisical for the umpteanth time....

Interesting....
An exobitionist ! LOL

Funnily, I generally always have my build areas enclosed, as I just feel happier inside something that on top of something.

When I was with someone my focus was totally on them so i would not notice anyone or anything around me.

You see, I'm different in that respect.

Even though it's SL, I could not be "close" with someone standing next to me just watching.

Even though I'm veering a little off my original question about windows.

I find that having windows not matching up (not just opaque/non-opaque, even alignment problems), on the inside and outside of a house breaks immersion for me.

What do you mean "not matching up" ?

Do you mean, you don't like it when you have a control to adjust the glass transparancy but it only affects the outside and the inside still remains clear, so you can always see out of the windows, it just affects how much others can see in?

I mean if the window is transparent one way and opaque the other, or if the window has different curtains or glazing in the inside and outside, or if the position is off on the inside and outside, or anything else of that nature.

Ok, yeah I can understand that.

And do agree, SL is all about believing what you are seeing.

As you say, if you can see it's not right then it (well to me) does not feel right.

I don't worry about such things usually. Once I discovered that green dots on the map make it impossible to hide and the versatility of the SL camera makes it impossible to avoid being seen, I decided that there wasn't any point in pretending that true privacy exists in world. I don't bother with one-way windows. If I don't want to be disturbed by casual passersby, I create a temporary skypad or I duck inside a secret unwindowed room somewhere. If someone wants to track down my green dot and cam me, though, they will. No big deal.

I have my windows scripted to opaque from the outside looking in, but that's only in case the girl I'm with makes me put it on

I don't need windows to be completely opaque, but I do want the psychological sense of being protected. Usually that means completely opaque if I'm somewhere people might wander by or semi-opaque or with heavy barring or other gridwork if I'm up in the sky where they won't wander by but theoretically could. I don't even get undressed outdoors when I'm 4000 m high and at least 40 m from all the property lines. I freely acknowledge that this is neurotic.

It's also far more modest than I am in real life. *shrug*

This is a fascinating thread. Thanks for initiating, it Piggie.

What I find particularly interesting so far are the descriptions some people have given of how closely they identify with their avatars as representations of themselves. For example, Rihanna's depiction of her reluctance to change clothing or disrobe an avatar in "public" is pretty amazing to think about. I believe it speaks volumes not only about SL as a communications medium, but also about the human capacity for immersion and suspension of disbelief. Thanks, Rhianna, for allowing us this kind of insight.

The main reason I find discussions of this kind to be so captivating is that I don't seem to be wired quite that way, myself. Notions of avatar sex, avatar modesty, avatar exhibitionism, etc., have always been confusing topics for me. I just don't get it. I know these things are meaningful for some people, and I do sincerely respect that. But I don't think I'll ever understand it. I do try to make the attempt at comprehension, though, so I'm very grateful for threads like this one. I'll be watching intently to see where this discussion goes.

Thanks again for bringing it up, Piggie, and especially for framing it with respect to building. That adds a whole other level of interest to it.



For my part, I don't consider my avatar to be in any way a representation of myself. From my point of view, the avatar is simply the tool by which we each interact with SL, nothing more. Mine doesn't look like me, or even like anything I ever would want to be. I made it look like something I happen to enjoy looking at, simply because it happens to be the only thing that's always on my screen. It's never been about presenting myself to others; it's just about having something visually pleasing on my own desktop.

The closest my avatar ever came to engaging with another in "bouncy bouncy", as Piggie put it, was a few years ago when a friend made an avatar that was just too tempting not to pair mine up with for some photos. Mine was Seven of Nine, and hers was Deanna Troi. As Star Trek geeks, neither of us could resist playing out the fantasy of, "What would happen if Deanna and Seven went at it? Let's find out."

Neither of us considered this to be a representation of ourselves engaging in sexual relations with each other, not in any way, shape, or form. It was simply something amusing to look at and to laugh about, fodder for some fun pictures to show our friends. It did take place in a public setting, where anyone could see. I don't think the question of privacy entered either of our minds.

For me, I wonder what people what are so completely non-immersionist get out of Second Life. Is it just a business (or hobby business)?

I consider my avatar an idealized version of myself. I have a couple alts that I use for testing stuff but I never enjoy "playing" them because I don't even remotely identify with them. I just don't think it's very fun to play a character that I don't identify with pretty strongly. However, having said that, I do very occasionally put on my old tiny (smoking, drinking, naughty t-shirt wearing) bunny avatar as myself and I view that as something like a costume, so that can be fun. I know this makes no rational sense, but that's how it is for me

I love that windows in SL can be transparent on the inside and opaque on the outside, because this is the way I have always wanted windows in RL to work. I love light, and begrudge the necessity to close RL curtains in bedrooms etc., ever!

I feel that if I've taken reasonable precautions to signal that I wish to be alone, then if someone is offended when they see me trying on poses or *whatever*, well, they should look away.

Good question. For me, SL was first and foremost an artistic outlet, back when I fist got involved with it. From there, it evolved to also generate some great friendships, so it became a social outlet as well. It's also proven to be a great teaching medium, which I do enjoy. Eventually, it became a job for me, but that was serendipity, more than anything else. Making a business of it wasn't something I ever planned for. Work just kind of just fell into my lap after a while, and so I decided "Why not? I'll just add this to what I already do for a living anyway."

It's never been about roleplaying, or idealizing myself, or anything like that. Those aren't things that ordinarily occur to me.

Having said that, I'm struck by your choice of wording of your second question. I'm wondering why you chose to use the phrase "just a business", rather than simply saying "a business". Perhaps I'm misinterpreting, but the inclusion of the word "just" seems to imply you see the business side of SL as something lesser than the other aspects. If that's the case, then as someone who's been a business owner my entire adult life, I have to say I find this attitude to be puzzling. The identity of "business person" is one of the largest parts of who I am, as it is for every other business owner I've ever known. There's no "just" about it.

This might not be something people actively think about every day, but the fact is business is the cornerstone of society, one of the strongest glues that binds us all together. Human beings trade. It's part of our nature, a crucial piece of what makes us who and what we are. The very fact that we're all unique individuals means we're each capable of producing something someone else can't, and that others are likewise capable of producing things we can't. We're each always going to want or need things we can't just conjure up on our own. So we trade with others who can provide them, and they reciprocally trade with us for the same reasons. This was as true in caveman times as it is today, and it will remain so for as long as humans exist.

From that perspective, the phrase "just a business" has a pretty distinct ring of narrowness to it, don't you think? If something can be a business, that means it has very real significance to us as humans, on a great many levels. It's important to realize that.

As in, if you were making the same kind of money selling your builds on a 2d website and chatting with people in the website's forums you'd be just as happy. That the 3d virtual world is no more than a tool, incidental to the construction and display of your stuff. I could maybe have expressed the same sentiment as "just a tool to run your business".

I wasn't thinking of "just" as a dismissal, but as a refinement. "Purely a business" rather than "merely a business", perhaps?

Sure, and without the roleplayers and others who identify with their characters so greatly, most SL businesses, and maybe even the platform itself, would fail.

Actually, it's not about being a representation of myself so much as being a representation of _someone_, whoever that is. As I said, she's much more modest than I am in the meat-world. Who that someone is may vary according to the occasion, whether I'm in character as Rihanna, wearing my real-life professional persona for office hours or a client meeting (which is really just another sort of IC), or something in between. And my alt is someone completely different. Although they're all aspects of myself, because they're only aspects, no one persona could ever truly be a representation of me. What matters to me is respecting what they are and allowing them to be that without interference from the real world. Although I can see the potential value of augmentation, I'm definitely an immersionist by choice.

I can't "play a role" in SL as I can't be bothered !!!!

I can pretend to be something I'm not in SL, also, as I can't be bothered.

I'm just myself, genuine and honest in the SL world as I am in the RL world.

Boring... huh ?

LOL

Thanks for the clarification. I'm glad to know I was indeed misinterpreting.

As for whether I'd be just as happy selling models on a 2D website, and chatting through forums or some other means, the answer is yes and no. The yes part would be that I could sell much higher quality models, since there would be none of SL's limitations to worry about. The no part is I wouldn't be able to see what people are doing with it, and I wouldn't be able to interact with the people, the models, and everything else, it quite the same way.

There's a reason I'm involved in virtual worlds, as opposed to (as well as in addition to) other media. The fact that I don't see my avatar as me doesn't mean I don't think of the actions I make it perform as my own. One of SL's greatest strengths has always been that although you can build a better sportscar in a traditional 3D modeling program, you can't drive it around town to show your friends. Your SL car might be more visually limited, but it's a heck of a lot more meaningful in many other ways. The social aspects more than make up for the visual drawbacks.




Absolutely.

It definitely takes all kinds, just like the real world. Like I said, I'm not personally able to identify with my avatar in that way, but I certainly respect that other people do. Again, that's why I love threads like this, so much insight into "how the other half lives".





Excellent point. We all wear many hats in RL. So it logically follows that our SL personae can be just more of the same, or perhaps "more of the different" would be a better way to put it.

Pop psychologists and self help authors often talk about the importance of recognizing the differences between our inner selves that we show no one, our familiar selves that we share with friends and family, and our outer selves that we display for strangers. Again, it logically follows that our "avatar selves" could be another stage entirely, or some combination of the other three, for those who do consider their avatars to be selves.

This just keeps getting more and more interesting.




Never.

Yes, I would prefer the windows to be solid on the inside as well as the outside, but it's not a deal breaker for me. When I am with my partner, I am into the moment and don't give outside things too much thought.

I am more concerned about the neighbors who pan it, but even that I have learned to deal with.

My avatar is exactly me... if I was an indestructible 4' tall ferret who could turn into anything from a 4" jerboa to a 40' dragon at the drop of a hat. And I'd sure love to see how that worked for me in RL.

My avatar is definitely me, but not the RL me. There's no way I would be the RL me in world. Not that I'm boring in either life, but the RL me is the same one I've lived with for ..... well, a long, long time. The SL me is a new person, and I delight in discovering more about who she is every time I log on. It's hard to explain, but this isn't role play. Rolig is me, not a character I adopt. She is a designer, a small business owner, a mentor, and many other things that I am not in RL .... some of them involving skills that are only poorly developed in my RL repertoire. She is the same fidgety tinkerer that I am in RL, and just as private, but more relaxed. She's maybe my older, wiser sister .... and half my age. In any case, I am quite immersed when I am in world. Not playing, just being me. .... if that makes sense.....