Build Question for the Lindens....

If Linden Labs is based in California, then why is building anything measured only in Metrics? Is there a way to change the measurements over to American Standard Rule?
This would greatly help me out in trying to build stuff, as I only use American Standard Rule Measurements whenever I build anything in RL.
For me to build anything using the metric system of rule, will be virtually impossible, as I'm not used to Metrics being I'm an American.
I was also quite surprised to see that measurements were only in Metrics, if Linden Labs base company is in America. This is highly confusing to me, as well.

Basically, I'm asking if you all at Linden Labs can create an in world conversion over to the American Standard Of Measurements? It would sure be a big help to us Americans who all grew up using the American Standard Measurement Systems.

An answer to this would be greatly appreciated!!!

Storms Nightfire, avid RL builder who can't build in SL!

While LL _is_ based in the US, the US doesn't have the majority of users in SL. We have more (far more, last time I looked) than any other single country but 2/3rds of SL is still from out of town..


As an American, I find something about that statement a little disturbing.

edit: actually, a bit more than 'a little'...

I have to agree with Meade on this one. I'm an American, and I don't find the metric system "impossible" in any way, shape, or form. We might be a dumb and arrogant breed, but come on, man. We're not THAT dumb an arrogant. Not most of us, anyway.

Plus, you gotta admit, if you can take a step back from your established habits for a second, the metric system makes so much more sense than our antiquated system of arbitrary units, it's almost silly. Instead of having to memorize that a foot equals 12 inches, and a yard equals 3 feet, and a mile equals 5280 feet, numbers that really make no sense at all if you think about it, all you need to know with the metric system is how to use decimals. That's it. It couldn't be more simple.

We've been using the metric system for our money for over 200 years now. You really mean to tell me we're so stupid we can't apply the same principles to measuring the size of virtual objects on our computer screens. Surely you don't think so lowly of us, do you?

In any case, the unit of measure in SL just happens to be called a "meter". You'll find that it doesn't have much to do with RL meters after you get past the name. Compare the average size of an avatar vs. the SL meter, against the average size of a RL human vs. the RL meter, and you'll see very quickly that a "meter" in SL is actually considerably smaller than a meter in RL. So if you want to replicate a RL object in SL, you'd best think in terms of scale, not in terms of fixed numbers.

I'd suggest you don't get so caught up in the names of things. A unit is just a unit. Had LL chosen a word other than "meter" for theirs, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion right now. You never would have had cause to go "OMG! Not the metric system! That's so un-American!" You just would have learned the SL system in 10 minutes, and been done with it.

All you really need to know is this. If one item is 10 units tall, and the one next to it is 5 units tall, then you know the former is twice as tall as the latter. That's it. Just apply that same logic to everything. The fact that the unit happens to be named "meter" really shouldn't matter to you.

Oh, and if you want proof of how easily you can transition from system to system if you just keep an open mind, have you ever made a texture? If you have, then you had no trouble adopting the pixel as your unit of measure instead of the inch, and adopting powers of two as your base instead of assorted groupings of fractions, 12's, 3's, and 5280's.

Bottom line. Nothing's impossible. Just deal with it, man. Don't give foreigners yet another reason to make fun of Americans. Our government hands them quite enough of that already without your help.

I am all for the metric system for building. In my opinion it's far more accurate than the american measurement system.... try doing a 1/100 of a foot.. thats just weird lol

Plus it allows for easier comparison with other countries and peoples, which abound in SL

Just as scientist in the US use the metric system to more easily share their findings, builders in SL should use the metric system as it is globally understood... you don't have to do conversions.

I don't want to have to multiply the # of feet by 3.28083 to get the same size builds...and things should generally be the same throughout SL, tom ake things more compatible.. otherwise you'd have US people buying the US ones cause they understand the size and everyone else buying the metric stuff.. it'd be odd

I like the metric system for building, have no trouble with it, and actually think it is more accurate.

I'm not sure I'd say it's more accurate - they're just different ways of expressing the same things. The number 4684 could be expressed in roman numerals (MMMMDC...) and one would certainly be easier to read & scale/convert than the other but their accuracies are exactly the same.

However, MMMMDC is representing 4684.

One foot is not representing a metric measurement, it is its own measurement, which is in my opinion harder to use when you try to use partials and such. A meter to me is more accurate because of its ease of division, not because of its size...

We don't even really have a measurement system lol.. we made random things up it seems...

Okiphia,

I agree with you that the metric system is more logical and intuitive. Also, I'm sure the multi-cultural thing has a lot to do with it. LL wants to appear more progressive and worldly. But some of what you're saying here isn't true.

In engineering, in the U.S., we use 1/10 and 1/100 of inches almost exclusively. We also don't convert to metric to share our findings. We simply don't use the metric system much at all in the US. I'm sure there are exceptions to this, but I work for one of the world's largest aerospace companies, and very rarely see the metric system anywhere in my work. Someone who works in architecture will have to answer as to whether they ever use the metric system in that field; I don't know.

As for SL, Meade, as Chosen points out, you will quickly find that it just doesn't matter. They're just numbers, and don't resemble reality too closely. And if you build interior spaces to RL scale, you'll be way too cramped anyway.

Guess I was kinda vague with 'scientists' lol.. I suppose I really meant more on the line of chemistry and such.. I remember in science class always using grams and milliliters and such, never the US measurement system.

I can't really speak for any other field at all, as I've never done anything at all in them.. but chemistry and math I remember almost always using the metric system... maybe just my school =P

What bugs me is that I'm old.
I still spell it metre! *grin*

For me, I prefer the metric for SL, as it is easier for me to work by tens.

But in rl, I'm still x feet tall. *grin*

I use metre like half the time lol..and I'm 18 =P

I use the more unusual spellings for things (unusual for an American) often, but I switch between spellings all the time lol

Eh? That's sorta exactly the point I was trying to make..

edit: no worries..

Oh brother....

Lol I generally use 6m tall rooms minimum (on the inside.. 6m from floor to roof, or approx)... just realized thats about 20 feet =P

Same here, Okiphia. I used metric more than the American system in science classes in school, growing up in the U.S., too. In fact, it wasn't until I was getting my engineering degree that a professor told a surprised bunch of us that no one uses the metric system in American industry, and so far he seems to be right.

Oh, Sorry Meade! I snatched the wrong name! I meant to address that to Storm, the O.P.

Given the fact that the scale of things in SL isn't actualy related to anything, wether they are called meters, inches, or PLUs (Phillip Linden Units) is completely irrelevant. Even in RL any measurement system is simply a standard people agree to adhere to. I prefer the current system because it's a Base10 Decimal system. I don't think I want a system where 16 decimal units equals 1 whole (16th of an inch) and 12 of those would be a virtual 'foot'. The english system is one of the greatest PITA's of the last century.

EDIT: And yes I'm American.

I don't think being based in California would influence things to your liking. I wouldn't be surprised to see the State of California suing the federal government to accept metric as the "American" standard.

I just measured the speed of light in SL* and found it to be 16290m/sec and since Einstein showed that the speed of light is invariant for any observer in any inertial frame, either SL is in an intense gravitational field (which would make physics even screwier than they are) or the meter in SL is too short by a factor near 10^5.

* light turns on at 0,0,0 at time t_0 and is visible at 255,255,0 at time t_0 + 1/45th seconds; ds = sqrt(2) * 256m = 362m; dt = 1/45sec, ds/dt = 16290m/s = 5.43x10^-5c for the detail oriented

Well, I just meant that it would be nice to have a conversion field in-world for people who are used to using Am. Std, as well as Metric. Whats the harm in that?
I mean, 1'=0.3048 meter, and that's just too much break down for me in units because I'm not used to it.
I wasn't jumping anyone's case, I was just asking a simple question. I would just like to be able to build things with a measurement system that I'm used too. Is that so bad?

Not bad at all. Every time you see "meters" in any SL thing, read it as "furlongs". Problem solved.

The idea becomes rather comical when one considers that measurements in SL have little relationship to RL measurements anyway. Do avatars weigh an appropriate amount in SL or have appropriate heights?

This is not true.

hmm, 1st of all i am not american but german. so i didnt vote.
but if someone asks for a change in the parameters i have to say that there should be not that problem to include something like that into the client. so why not?

they put in different languages so why not different parameters?

nevertheless is the metrics system very easy to learn and very logical buit.
that maybe the reason why it becomes more and more used all over the world.
we had thingies like feet and ells before too.

how to you call it? centi and milli inches?

we would say centi and millimeter

Be glad you are not in the UK where we still in practice use both systems alongside each other. You buy a draught beer in a pub, it comes in pints, buy it in bottles or cans and it usually comes in 330ml, 440ml, or 500ml sizes. Many foodstuffs are packaged in 454g packets, because that's a pound. Unpackaged foods like vegetables often have two prices quoted, one per pound and one per kilo. I bought some timber last weekend - comes in 1.8m lengths because 1.8 m is 6ft. Petrol is sold in litres, but petrol consumption figures are usually given in miles per litre (and quite often in miles per gallon!).

If US engineers work in inches, 1/10s, and 1/100s it should be easy to adapt to SL measurements. Just think of them as inches instead of metres and the system is exactly the same.

eh, NO.

sure the reference frame isn't there for my mind, but having a system that actually makes use of it's framework (as metric does with decimal) vs one that fights it (as 'standard' does with decimal) makes my life easier....

some places you see one, some you see the other, in SL it's really just numbers, and the reference to meters is ... simplistic at best.

for instance... some poor shmoe forgets to check whether 5 is in degrees or radians, or in feet or meters, and IRL a satelite smacks into mars a few hundred mph faster, sooner, and in a different place than expeted... that's bad, several million dollars bad.. in SL.... it's funny, and you go back and redo the math.