Hi Guys,
As a CopyBot "victim" this week I'm obsessed about it and reading that there isn't a way known to man or avatar to avoid it has not brought any peace of mind either...
So my question is... if the bot that copies the items is a bypass of the SL software and it has no "will" of it's own, only obeying to its master, then perhaps a script that would ask the bot to interact with it repeatedly (like clicking an option in a menu pop-up) or get ejected otherwise might slow these guys down?!
I do realize that this option might be quite irritating to customers...
Any ideas?
Cheers, Pippas
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CopyBot Question |
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Pippas Papp
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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11-16-2008 17:15
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Becka Andrew
Registered User
Join date: 19 May 2008
Posts: 95
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11-16-2008 17:25
How do you know you were a copybot victim?
As for the question I have no idea how it works. I would think you would still have a viewer and able to interact as normal as you would need to see where you are and what you need to copy? So not sure the script would work. Also they could just copy whatever it is elsewhere if you sell whatever you say is being copied. Also fair chance by the time your script booted them the copy would be done. I doubt it takes but a few seconds to copy something. However I don't know. More interested in knowing why you think you are a victim of it. |
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Jesse Barnett
500,000 scoville units
Join date: 21 May 2006
Posts: 4,160
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11-16-2008 17:35
Hi Guys, As a CopyBot "victim" this week I'm obsessed about it and reading that there isn't a way known to man or avatar to avoid it has not brought any peace of mind either... So my question is... if the bot that copies the items is a bypass of the SL software and it has no "will" of it's own, only obeying to its master, then perhaps a script that would ask the bot to interact with it repeatedly (like clicking an option in a menu pop-up) or get ejected otherwise might slow these guys down?! I do realize that this option might be quite irritating to customers... Any ideas? Cheers, Pippas Bots can touch things and it would be able to copy it in the blink of an eye anyways. That irritation factor will be much higher then you can imagine and anyone who lived through the anti-copybot aftermath will be staying several sims over from your store. There is no way to convey just how bad it was. If you were making money before this incident then you will continue to make money. There are many more honest people in SL then there are dishonest. If you have a good product and good customer service then you shouldn't have any problems. _____________________
I (who is a she not a he) reserve the right to exercise selective comprehension of the OP's question at anytime.
I am still around, just no longer here. See you across the aisle. Hope LL burns in hell for archiving this forum |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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11-16-2008 18:44
If you see anyone with a copy of your item that wasn't created by you, then just AR it and/or file a DMCA to go along with the AR if you're really interested in stopping them. Otherwise, it's seriously not worth the worry.
PS.. !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit !quit _____________________
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Gordon Wendt
404 - User not found
Join date: 10 May 2006
Posts: 1,024
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11-16-2008 19:06
Tyken, the AR isn't going to do any good since LL just ignores AR's on copyright issues and at least used to (I haven't checked in awhile) have an automated filter to reject and send a prewritten reply to them saying to file a DMCA claim.
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Dragger Lok
(loading ...)
Join date: 10 Sep 2006
Posts: 228
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11-17-2008 07:37
Tyken, the AR isn't going to do any good since LL just ignores AR's on copyright issues and at least used to (I haven't checked in awhile) have an automated filter to reject and send a prewritten reply to them saying to file a DMCA claim. Gordon, sorry but the lindens do move against such actions- the process is painfully slow, but they have removed a number of people and cleared out inventory of violators. One case I know of an entire sim was taken- now that's loosing real life money in one shot. I don't think it's wise to discourage people from reporting. There will always be petty theft in the world, this is not an argument to give up on the fight against it. |
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Meade Paravane
Hedgehog
Join date: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 4,845
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11-17-2008 07:43
So my question is... if the bot that copies the items is a bypass of the SL software and it has no "will" of it's own, only obeying to its master, then perhaps a script that would ask the bot to interact with it repeatedly (like clicking an option in a menu pop-up) or get ejected otherwise might slow these guys down?! If I was the kind of person who used stuff like copybot, and I'm not, I'd just download the viewer source and add a new pie-menu item for "copy this." There's nothing special about bots. People who use copybot are comparable to kids who download virus templates, tweak one little thing and release them as their own. They're annoying and I'd have no problems seeing them be made to go away but as long as the serious people are still out there, the problem can't really be solved. Best you can do is to try to make your stuff distinctive enough that direct copies are obvious..  _____________________
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-17-2008 09:54
Gordon, sorry but the lindens do move against such actions- the process is painfully slow, Tyken is, however, correct that if an AR includes the word "copyright" in its text, the client is programmed to refuse to submit it, giving an error box instead. |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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11-17-2008 10:04
Hi Guys, As a CopyBot "victim" this week I'm obsessed about it and reading that there isn't a way known to man or avatar to avoid it has not brought any peace of mind either... So my question is... if the bot that copies the items is a bypass of the SL software and it has no "will" of it's own, only obeying to its master, then perhaps a script that would ask the bot to interact with it repeatedly (like clicking an option in a menu pop-up) or get ejected otherwise might slow these guys down?! I do realize that this option might be quite irritating to customers... Any ideas? Cheers, Pippas So, if I come into your shop, I get pelted with request to interact, or I get teleported out? Sorry, I'll shop elsewhere! I doubt there's an easy answer to this problem. One defense is to make scripted objects. Bots can't copy scripts, so they can't copy object behavior, just the structure and appearance. |
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Lear Cale
wordy bugger
Join date: 22 Aug 2007
Posts: 3,569
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11-17-2008 10:07
Gordon, sorry but the lindens do move against such actions- the process is painfully slow, but they have removed a number of people and cleared out inventory of violators. One case I know of an entire sim was taken- now that's loosing real life money in one shot. I don't think it's wise to discourage people from reporting. There will always be petty theft in the world, this is not an argument to give up on the fight against it. For copyright violations (e.g., using copybot to copy content) the right kind of case to file is DCMA. Don't waste your time filing an AR, that would be like filing a criminal case for a civil action. |
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Keira Moxie
Registered User
Join date: 17 Dec 2005
Posts: 47
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11-17-2008 10:16
For my RL work we have been studying some of the bigger hacks of SL and other virtual worlds.. and I got copybot... I bought one last week and tried it out on my own things.. Sadly it is very effective. I have not seen that it can copy the animations and scripts inside the item but I am told it can and we are still looking at that. However it can take an exact duplicate of anything item within 35m of itself, just by knowing the item's UUID number.
But it is a script based system so if you turn off scripts on your land the copy bot should not be able to function. And your customers won't get spammed. good luck.. my alt is a victim of it too... I have found several of her creations under other names... I am learning the DMCA process fairly well by now |
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Yumi Murakami
DoIt!AttachTheEarOfACat!
Join date: 27 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,860
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11-17-2008 10:22
Keira,
CopyBot is _not_ a script based system (Jesse Murdock's post, claiming that it was, was misdirection). CopyBot cannot steal animations, but animations may be stealable. CopyBot cannot steal scripts either, and the source code of scripts is not stealable, but very simple scripts may be stealable although the technology for doing so hasn't been developed yet. |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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11-17-2008 11:15
You can be assured that virtually any content can be copied, and no mechanism can completely prevent this, particularly scripted methods like ye olde Anti-CopyBot. Even scripts have at times not been completely safe, and if you need mission critical security, you shouldn't rely solely on scripts as being secure. Still, 99.999% of SL has no need to be that paranoid, particularly about the average script kiddie stealing things. There's too many honest customers out there to make it a priority for most cases.
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Jedi Quintessa
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 80
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11-17-2008 11:34
Hm well i had no understandign of this copybot thing until you all put it all over the boards. I am happy to get one and copy for free what I want. why would i not take advantage of this if you are all silly enough to tell us about it.
is it illegile, how can it be if they are selling the copybot or giving them for free |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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11-17-2008 11:58
It's definitely illegal to steal a copy of someone's items, though CopyBot is not illegal in and of itself, and sometimes comes in handy. If lots of people see you with items stolen in this manner, chances are you can kiss your account goodbye.
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Jedi Quintessa
Registered User
Join date: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 80
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11-17-2008 12:00
It's definitely illegal to steal a copy of someone's items, though CopyBot is not illegal in and of itself, and sometimes comes in handy. If lots of people see you with items stolen in this manner, chances are you can kiss your account goodbye. but in a lot of cases how would they see you what if I buy one couch and I want two, can I copy the one I bought, is the one i bought mine to do with as I please |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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11-17-2008 12:20
Anyone can go into edit mode and look at the creator of your objects, including attachments. Especially if it's a popular item, people do this alllll the time to find out where they can get one. If they see you as the creator, and likely it will be obvious that you aren't, you'll probably get reported. But don't take my word for it, just show us natural selection hard at work. And if you can't reason that out, good luck using CopyBot at all.
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Pippas Papp
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jun 2007
Posts: 5
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11-17-2008 12:43
Hi again,
How do you know you were a copybot victim? I know only because one of the houses copied was rezzed in the main shop sim and since it was too close to the border something went wrong and there were pieces of it all over the place ;P otherwise i would have no idea. On the other hand there is at least a small flash light at the end of the tunnel... if copybot makes it easy for them then unlinking the items exhibited and setting up 1 prims vendors makes it harder, they can still copy but who goes through thousands of prims called... hen... object? No annoyance for the customers, only a few extra lindens spent on uploading pictures for the boxes and the people using copybot would at least have to sweat to have the items not to mention the ability to set it up all together again  |
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Delerium Hannibal
Registered User
Join date: 30 Apr 2004
Posts: 28
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11-18-2008 05:43
On the other hand there is at least a small flash light at the end of the tunnel... if copybot makes it easy for them then unlinking the items exhibited and setting up 1 prims vendors makes it harder, they can still copy but who goes through thousands of prims called... hen... object? a person who can program a simple "FOR EACH" loop for one could save everything the copybot sees into a file to be sorted out later. Plus how hard is it to link a house together? Not much of a deterrent if you ask me, but you could try it. I don't really understand why people go to such great lengths to annoy their customers in the name of "security". You would probably lose more money from losing customers than you would from a person using copybot. Not to mention all of those annoyances would probably be seen as a challenge and you would get copied more, not less. Just stay under the radar and sell your products to your customers. That's the only way to beat copybot that I know of. |
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Awnee Dawner
object returned to sim
Join date: 7 Apr 2008
Posts: 206
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11-18-2008 07:10
hey!
but in a lot of cases how would they see you does it make a good feel to steal others work? YOU always will know its stolen, ... what if I buy one couch and I want two, can I copy the one I bought, is the one i bought mine to do with as I please depends on permissions ie. my items will come as no mod copy no transfer in this case you buy one chair but you may copy the chair to have 2,3,4, ... when you buy one of my items -> its yours, the money you have paid for -> is mine  ,but copyright is by me, this doesnt change. ie. -> when you buy a rl painting you will own it but you havnt painted. -> so the copyright is by the artist. _____________________
>> yes <<
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Isadora Fiddlesticks
Registered User
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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11-24-2008 23:56
Jedi Quintessa- If you want the option to have copies of the items you bought, then buy from creators that have that option turned on in the permissions system. SIMPLE AS THAT. You don't need copybot for that. I have a sofa set that was NO TRANSFER, COPY, NO MOD...and i was able to have many copies of that.
What if you were the one being used a Cobybot on? What if the items you slaved upon in Photoshop and in SL were being taken away just like that? Then sold all over the grid, with the profits and the credits not given to you? It boils down to that... most people don't know it's wrong until THEY themselves experience it. _____________________
-Isadora Fiddlesticks
http://isadorafiddlesticks.wordpress.com http://hodgepodgemag.metanetworkmedia.com |
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Isadora Fiddlesticks
Registered User
Join date: 6 Feb 2007
Posts: 9
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11-25-2008 00:03
It's definitely illegal to steal a copy of someone's items, though CopyBot is not illegal in and of itself, and sometimes comes in handy. If lots of people see you with items stolen in this manner, chances are you can kiss your account goodbye. There's no guarantee that people who buy Copybot will use it prudently. There's going to be that temptation to do the wrong thing...but that's free will. By the way, is there a list of known and confirmed content rippers? I want a reference so that I won't patronize that store and warn others. _____________________
-Isadora Fiddlesticks
http://isadorafiddlesticks.wordpress.com http://hodgepodgemag.metanetworkmedia.com |
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Briana Dawson
Attach to Mouth
Join date: 23 Sep 2003
Posts: 5,855
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11-25-2008 04:02
There's going to be that temptation to do the wrong thing...but that's free will. Uhhh....no. Not everyone has temptations to do the wrong thing. Some of us never get a single twinge to do the wrong thing. Most of us actually do the RIGHT thing, even when we have tools that would enable us to do wrong things. _____________________
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Shyan Graves
Registered User
Join date: 10 Feb 2007
Posts: 52
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11-25-2008 05:30
Uhhh....no. Not everyone has temptations to do the wrong thing. Some of us never get a single twinge to do the wrong thing. Most of us actually do the RIGHT thing, even when we have tools that would enable us to do wrong things. I totally agree with that  And there are good reasons to have a copybot in your inventory, like easy doubling your own creations or when you need a copy for your own use of a really old object in your inventory and you know the creator is no longer in SL and never will be back! |
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Tyken Hightower
Automagical
Join date: 15 Feb 2006
Posts: 472
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11-25-2008 07:02
For reference, you don't buy CopyBot, it's free and open source. Also, it's not an in-world script, it's a tool run on your computer.
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