Lindens: Emergency Patch Needed Now!

Ok, I edited this because the purpose of the post wasn't clear.

This post is NOT about pushing. Pushing can EASILY be 100% stopped by SITTING ON A PRIM THAT YOU OWN YOURSELF (provided the owner of the land isn't the one booting you off). If you want even more peace of mind add in the line llSitTarget(<0.0, 0.0, 0.01>, ZERO_ROTATION); in the state_entry event handler. This makes the prim process sitting slightly differently.

This post is about a bug which has been kept quiet until just recently when a guy named Eckhart released the object "power shield" for public sale which is breaking DAMAGE areas.

The bug can be reproduced simply by using the following code (does not include control grabbing for movement. I have a script pending in script library for that):

default
{
state_entry()
{
llSitTarget(<0.0, 0.0, 0.01>, ZERO_ROTATION);
}

changed(integer change)
{
if (change & CHANGED_LINK)
llVolumeDetect(TRUE);
}
}

This combines the VALID idea of sitting to prevent pushes (a really good idea while editing), but allows the ability to prevent DAMAGE while sitting. In the past it was only possible to do ONE but never both at the same time.

From what I have seen llUnSit() only works when you are sitting on a prim you do not own, on land that the person using the function owns, or in the case you use llUnSit() on yourself. This protects users on SAFE land and completely relieves the need the world may have had for this bug, because the only thing it does beyond normal sitting is that it prevents damage.

I would not have posted this, except the fact that another scripter released his shield which makes this bug (though previously not the implimentation thereof) available to users for the express purpose of providing invincibility in unsafe ares, and it is causing major disruption in the damage sims such as Jessie and Rausch. People are now using it to go in, kill everyone who can't afford the shield which costs the equivalent of 12 USD, and they stay there and keep doing it because they are quite literally invinicble. While the whole idea of these sims is to go in and shoot people if you want, this is making it one sided.

The bug is made more of a problem because there is no and there can be no work-around or way to defeat the bug. There is only ONE way to cause damage, and that is through collision with an object that has llSetDamage(). Furthermore there is no way (and rightfully so) to unsit someone who is currently sitting on their own object on public land. llVolumeDetect objects/avatars cannot be collided with in such a way as to cause damage. This invalidates the very concept of a combat sim.

My last bit of reasoning for making it public is that in all likelyhood nothing would be done to fix it without the bug becoming widely public (this is to my great dismay), despite the disruption it was already causing. It is hard for ANYONE to report something that they don't clearly understand because if you don't know what is happening you may dismiss it out of hand for some time before realizing that it may indeed be a bug. It is easy for the tech support and patching teams to misinterpet bug reports and such from users with little to no experience with scripting and even more when the bug wasn't and hasn't been known by most scripters.

The good folks at linden labs CLEARLY had a reason for retaining the ability to get hit by a damage collision while sitting on phantom and llVolumeDetect objects. The only time that this bug works is when llVolumeDetect is called while already sitting on the object (even if it already has llVolumeDetect set as TRUE, this will apply it again to include the avatar).

In a way, i'm just sad that it's not easier. Pushing is way to easy too do, and way too hard to defend against.

edit: too has 2 o's!

So long as it doesn't break how llVolumeDetect works edgewise. I use the functionality extensively for my Game Dev Contest game - specifically, how it passes collisions. If this was broken, I'd be screwed.

I know llVolumeDetect passes functions in a special way, using llCollisionStart/End. the proposed fix wouldn't change the way that worked. it would just add some more functionality by allowing the person to make it do damage, and to not make someone phantom as a sitter for the purposes of avoiding damage. there is a reason that when you sit on an already phantom or llVolumeDetect object you don't normally lose your clip plane. Anyway, if your llVolumeDetect objects for the game development get broken by making them do a proper damage collision then maybe you could apply the proposed llCollisionFilter to make them MORE functional by restricting damage with it

WAAAY OFF TOPIC!!!! Try Hotline to Linden. Neat bug, but lets keep it civil.

not way off topic. I want people to use it, because if I just contact a linden I know nothing will be done. "it's not widespread therefore not a priority".

Now it will be widespread and will be a priority. the post serves those TWO functions of making it public and thereby getting fixed.

And thankyou so much mr Satchmo "post police" Prototype

(tell me how a new way to use llVolumeDetect for defensive purposes is not a scripting tip and I will tell you how to turn lead into gold)

Sorry, I thought you were reporting a bug. I didn't realize you were spreading an exploit.

I'm sure I've misunderstood something, but doesn't just sitting on a prim make your av phantom, without need for the llVolumeDetect?

Dote: no, it doesn't. your avatar takes the same shape as a physical version of whatever you are sitting on for the purposes of targeting, to the best of my knowledge. Not only that, someone can kill you by shooting EITHER the object you are sitting on OR your new target volume. Even if the object you sit on is set as llVolumeDetect(TRUE) BEFORE you sit on it, it will still give you that collidable area. llVolumeDetect(TRUE) AFTER sitting down will turn both the object AND you phantom. this is a bug.


Satch "Too much Time on his hands" Prototype: yes, I am telling people how to exploit a but in a way that gets the repairs done. It's not like a large number of people in this forum don't already spread exploits (SEE PHASE SHIELD SCRIPTS). This is already out there, and already being used and sold for profit as part of a shield (wasn't public before). I don't think ANYONE should be able to profit off an exploit. Especially one that should never have existed in the first place. In my mind it's the lesser of two evils. I would rather see it public and eventually patched than become so standard over time that the SL community will want to cling to this explotive crutch (like the phase shield).

Exploits are passed back and forth all the time in this forum. like llSetScale on an attachment. It's a bug exploit, nothing more.

Brush fires that get too big too fast burn themselves out for lack of oxygen. Oftentimes to stop wildfires, firefighters will start MORE fires to eat up the local oxygen and force the problem fire to burn itself out.

i dont think this should be fixed ,
it works well for 'the hand of god' ppl arer using
in the sandboxes. if this gets fixed we need
something to prevent being pushed when we
do not want to be pushed.
i can see why someone would want this fixed
for a game or something, but you could add
to your script to dectect this cheating then not let let them play.
but there is no other way not to be pushed
when your working in the sandbox other than
making your av phantom with this 'bug'
-LW

*rolls eyes*
lets keep the drama in drama designated zones. This really belongs in "SL In-world Political Science".

Don't hijack this forum to forward your political agenda.

well, if someone wants to not get pushed in the majority of sandboxes the easiest way is to just sit normally. a volumedetect bug preventing DAMAGE is the main problem. if someone goes to a damage sim or area they should be able to be damaged. that's the point. nothing to do about political agenda, just a bug that needs to be fixed before it becomes a problem.

just sitting wont work any more even sitting
on a non physical prim i was still pushed
out of the sim. ive been using this phantom
'bug' and i havent been pushed yet.
all im saying is fixing it for you is breaking
it to me. p
-LW

Historically, llUnSit only works if the object you're sitting on is not your own.

Rez your own prim. Sit. Solved in a damageless sim.

Damage exploit? Report it to the Lindens, look for a workaround, and discuss with friends. Don't publicize huge bugs unless it's absolutely necessary. An example of this was when some idi... err, a resident broadcast "Hey Everyone, look at this terrible thing you can do with this script" with my prim mirror. That did not end well. Same rule applies with exploits.

That's my $0.02.

I clarified my original post. this post never has been about pushing. it has been about the ability to use an exploit to prevent damage in a combat sim while sitting.

Jeffrey: I would not have made it public if it wasn't already becoming a problem and wasn't already widely used by people. I would have been happy to have kept it private but for the fact that it ISN'T private but rather in the public sector for sale. Hell, if there was a workaround possible I would have made it and put it up for sale and made a killing on it (indeed I had planned that, until I discovered what was being done and that there was no workaround).

Within 2 hours of seeing the product that Eckhart released I was able to figure out exactly how and why it worked without even having to buy a copy myself (thank god).

At least if it's public people arn't getting ripped off for 3000 linden a crack for something that is going to get patched while the Lindens work to fix it.

If this is the case, then I have no problem with it. My advice, then, would be to take this to Kelly Linden's notecard reader in Ambleside, write down exactly how the bug is reproduced, and leave it there.

Kelly should give you a response within a few days.

If it's widely used then why fan the fire?

After re-reading your edits, I think I was misunderstanding something.

Does it crash sims? Or just provide invincibility to players? When you say breaking Damaged Areas and SIMS, do you mean it ruins the gameplay or actully stresses out the resources of the sim?

Also, chill with the personal attacks (I noticed you went back after your original civil post and edited in a nice nickname for me).

Infact... Hello and welcome to the SL community. We are more or less self organized, so yes, as a scripter I read the "scritping tips" forum and will raise a red flag when I see people maliciously promoting exploits. I don't find that time consuming or a waste of time at all.

Are you against preventing damage in a combat sim? If so why have I seen you come into Jessie with your guns blazing while using a phantom/phased script?

Text removed. See below.

Who is 'you' referring to exactly in the flame bait comment?

Without getting into the pro/con-invincibility debate....I was wondering, is this a long-standing bug, or something that appeared in a new patch?

On a side note....wouldn't this feature give vehicle makers the ability to make a vehicle that could fly through a damage zone without the worry of being shot down?


- Newfie

umm...did I miss something? This isnt exactly a NEW "feature." I use this all the time when I do editing in Rausch.


P.S. it doesnt really "break" anything. If you want to break a damage sim, just be a bastard and set up turrets or make a big wall with 100 damage scripts in them. Damage is really kind of a lame thing anyway, there are too many ways around damage. If you make your avatar phantom with a phase shield or some other thing, you will never ever take damage anyway.

It seems to me like damage was some little side project that never really got developed but is just here to serve as a damper for all the gun toting rednecks who demand the ability to actually kill people. Go play CS for killing, its fun and enjoyable.

Correct me if im wrong rotten but arent you the same one that said that there wasnt a way around this "bug" and that you were going to sell a product with it for 1000l and boasting how strong you are? Funny how youre complaining about it now.

ah... all makes sence now

I for one find this thread useful and informative, and I agree with the concept of spreading the information so the problem gets solved faster. The sqeaky wheel does, after all, get the grease.

Unless your last name is Linden, I would appreciate you not trying to moderate the forum. We are all adults here, please act like it.