Broadly offensive?

That's right, Jordan.

Only other people's kinks should be banned. Not ours.

What we want is for Linden Labs to define broadly offensive to only include stuff that we agree with. It should not include BDSM or Vampirism, but it totally should include ageplay because our opinion on it should be the one everyone has and anyone else who points out the hypocricy it wrong and should be shut down.
Ageplay on SL promotes evil behavious and thus should be banned, even though we have no research supporting this.
However, don't apply this reasoning to anything that we're into, because, even though there IS a link between roleplaying vampirism and RL deaths and disease, it doesn't hurt the children, even though there are no children on SL.


Remember this, folks. Only things I disagree with should be banned. If you don't like something I do, you're not allowed to say anything about it.

*sigh* It's the hypocricy that I love so much.

it is interesting that, Google as hard as you can, you'll find no evidence of a link, but you'll come across plenty of cases of people obsessed with vampires going on to kill adults and children. some of the rituals involved are just bizarre:

http:// tldm.org/News4/VampireHorror.htm
http:// news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/wales/2166683.stm
http:// theage.com.au/news/national/new-leads-sought-in-vampire-murder/2005/09/26/1127586781018.html
http:// thescotsman.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1109532003

i doubt the vampire thing is a key factor really, and I dare say the vast majority of vampire role play is perfectly safe, non-murderous and consensual. some mentally ill people probably take many kinds of fantasy too literally and too far.

but if some perverse or violent roleplay should be banned because of an *unproven* link with RL, then it's really not looking good for vampirism given the real life horror stories above.

please though, don't get me wrong. sexual ageplay sickens me to my stomach, and if I'm honest I'd rather it didn't happen here at all. but for our prediction to come true so soon about that banning extending to other forms of roleplay (adults roleplaying adults for gawd's sake), then i'm not surprised Daniel Linden's message has instilled such fear across Second Life. it feels like we've just been dropped into Elizabethan England: a police state where the ruler has spies in every village, town and city, ready to have you bannished for the slightest puritanical lapse.

On the subject of "ageplay", apparently you don't understand a lot of it. I'm not surprised. Would it surprise you to find out that most people who "ageplay" are not pedophiles but victims of pedophilia who are trying to regain some emotional control over it? The sexual predators are few and far between and sensationalized. There has been no rise in child pornography, just people's perception of how widespread it is.

Regardless of the whole ageplay issue, "broadly offensive" is not a definable term. What is fine with one person WILL BE offensive to someone else. I'm offended by most rap and hip hop, racists, most religions, and small-minded people who keep wanting to turn their opinions on how life should be lived into law. In fact, I would class these as "broadly offensive" and should be removed. But I don't protest these things because I believe in an individual's right to free speach, expression, and thought; things my opponents seem to want to squash.

I often go crazy. I'm not an advocate for "ageplay". Not directly. I'm an advocate for individual freedom. Even those people I near violently object to. Freedom has to cover everyone equally, not just those who agree with you. Now, I am an American and believe in the Constitution of the United States, so my views on freedom stem from that. Freedom isn't free. We hear that a lot in America. Sometimes the price is having to fight for the rights of people you detest to insure everyone has freedom, equally, and without prejudice.

Thread AR'ed for Linden bashing.

qite a true statement Joredan... in the paper this morning I was reading about LL puting 10,000 server in other contery beside the US and with doing so well have to conform to there rules... I do not find this just "Broadly Offensive" but comletly Offensive to know that anther conterys rules are going to be forced on me.

I know LL well give me a choice of accepting the new rules or leave.... for now I may stay but soon as some thing better come along I"m jumping ship and swiming for freedum.

I will wear my pink shirt every day of the week if I wish to do so.... and nothing else if I please.

Actually the reports reaching the USA about that are not quite accurate. In Holland and Germany, the two countries that had a media hype about the subject, ageplay and cartoonish depictions of child-sex are not illegal. Only virtual child porn that is *indistinguishable* from pictures of real child rape is. As an illustration: in both countries manga/hentai movies, often depicting little girls in sexual acts, can be freely bought in the adult section of a regular video store.

The images of these media hypes reaching the USA are not of people who are truthfully *stating* a fact that ageplay in SL is illegal, they are of people *wanting* ageplay in SL to be illegal. I am sure that in the US too there are people *wanting* to curtail freedom of expression in one way or another, and I am sure those people sometimes get to say their bit in newspapers and television shows. That does not make their wishes law, just like the anti-ageplay (wrongly called virtual child-porn) protesters wishes are not law in Holland.

Of course it may well be that the Lindens mistakenly *think* their wishes are actually law and because of that false assumption are taking ridiculous actions like publishing that blog post...



I have nothing to add to this, I just think it is worth repeating over and over again. Let's do it again:

Freedom has to cover everyone equally, not just those who agree with you.

The media does distort things. Somewhere in my lifetime, news went from "reporting the facts in an impartial manner" to "entertainment for ratings while forwarding our personal agenda".

Take violence in the United States. How many people think violent crime is on the rise here? Think of all the murders you hear about. Think about Virgina Tech and Columbine. Still think violent crime is on the rise in the US? Well, it isn't. In fact, according to The Department of Justice numbers, violent crime in the US is at its LOWEST in 30 years. That's right. Those of us in the good ol' USA are living in the safest time in the last 30 years. Doesn't seem that way if you watch the news.

Fear sells. Paranoia sells. They get you to tune into a program. They get you to read an article. Remember, everytime to watch reports on television or read articles in newspapers or magazines the people who produce those are thinking about ratings and subscriptions. I usually go to the BBC for news because I don't find the "agenda bias" I find in American news.

I also watch The Daily Show and the Colbert Report for news updates. I know they're biased, but at least they're actually entertaining.

I'm upset about the post as much as the next person, perhaps moreso because I belong to one of those communities that may be affected by this policy (BDSM).

However I keep reminding myself that this may also be a tempest in a tea pot. SL is a huge place and although I am rather open about my kink - and work activity both in SL and the real world to promote it and teach others about it.

This "fear" that "Gasp, there are people out there making love to a virtual horse! That's sick!" I'm sure is going to be used by some groups to try and change the world I've come to love.

And frankly this new policy plays right into their hands.

Personally I would rather you do a virtual horse than a real horse any day of the week. No one gets hurt, all parties are acting consenually and here is the important part! None of it is real! It's all in there head.

I will agree that some material should be banned. However where you draw the line is always the question. One I think should be left to the indivual.

Can't sell much advertising on a show when the news reader comes on and says "Good Evening. Nothing tragic happened today. Have a good night"

From what I understand, news programs in the United States used to be run at a loss. The major networks (back before cable) used to give us the news as a public service.

Then someone found out you can make money at it, and everything changed. And it's changed even further. When I watch American news or read American news publications, I find that the reporters personal opinion and bias drifts into the report. That's bad reporting and used to be greatly discouraged in journalism. Now it seems to be the standard. News is about facts. Who, what, where, when; not who, what, where, when, and my feelings on the issue.

Although, I think this is a subject for a different thread. I don't mean to hijack this one.

It just amazes me that "depraved" (at least in the minds of the "Moral Majority" morons) built second life and now LL is turning on the very thing that constitutes the core of the economy.

Lets face it, its nice to pretend that SL is a wholesome place full of creative people rebuilding the bar form Cheers or the Deathstar but the reality is, SL is 70% about sex. Stores, Sex related Sims, dancers, escorts, animations. There is literally almost no where in SL that is not touched by sex in some way (PG areas aside but even they have shops that sell sexy outfits).

Broadly Offensive is a dangerous term. Tell you what, I find the prolifertion of religious and political groups in this game broadly offensive.

I mean lets get really down and dirty. I do not support age play, do not participate in it, but its NOT illegal for 2 adults to roleplay it if they choose to. The supreme court ruled in 2002 that animated depictions of age play do not constitute child porn. As much as it repulses me that people enjoy sexually abusing children, age play is not the same thing.

If it was, any man/woman who has his/her wife or girlfriend dress up like a school girl would now be deemed a pedophile.

Its a similar issue to the KKK being allowed to march and have their free speech rights. Free speech for all not for some. Right, Wrong, Offensive or not, its a guaranteed RIGHT of any citizen of this country to speak their mind. DO I support the KKK, no, but any patriot of this country will support their right to spew their moronic propoganda. That is why we have off switches, legs, ear plugs and any other means of removing ourselves from offensive influences.

Don't like BDSM, D/s, goth, Furries, Ageplay, Dark Roleplay, Gor etc DONT VISIT THOSE SIMS. Its pretty gawdamn simple to figure out. If you live next door to one move, put up walls anything that will not force you to witness these "depraved acts"

Last I checked Mistresses and submissives were not breaking into yoru house, tying you up and forcing you to watch it.

As for "dangerous play" one persons danger is another persons kink. If two consenting adults want to enjoy a rape fantasy RP it doesnt hurt ANYONE.

Most of the "dangerous" play everyone is up in arms about (IE BDSM) follows a simple credo SSC (Safe Sane and Consensual) and is a hell of a lot more highly controlled than vanilla straight sex play. How many of you have asked your wife or husband to fill out a check list of things they do or dont enjoy? All good Dominants in SL have the checklist their pet/subs/slaves fill out. Most of them know EXACTLY where the line is and dont step over it. Most of the vanilla sex in SL is spontaneous spur of the moment grunting and sweating between two people who if they didn just meet 10 minutes ago probably never sat down to talk about limits.

SL is starting to remind me of England of the V for Vendetta universe. Already the witch hunts have begun, already people have been singled out and reported or harassed for their preferences. Remember Remember........

Ill leave you with a little poem that always seems to fit these discussions, funny that a pastor said it.

First they came for the Jews
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Jew.
Then they came for the Communists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a Communist.
Then they came for the trade unionists
and I did not speak out
because I was not a trade unionist.
Then they came for me
and there was no one left
to speak out for me.

Pastor Martin Niemöller

Exactly. Used to be News Divisions were Autonomous Bodies, pretty much allowed to do as they pleased. Things started to change in the 70's , first with local news and the multi anchor Happy talk concept, then with the advent of the Magazine Shows. As much good as 60 minutes and 20/20 were they also wre responsible in my opinion for blurring the line between News and Entertainment. Now News Divisions are as responsible for bringing in ratings and ad revenue as are the Entertainment sides.

Print Jornalism is even more abysmal here if you ask me. While newspapers alway had agendas, going back to the Yellow Journalism days of the 1900's cross ownership of media outlets has made journalistic bias the ruke rather than the exception. Add to the recent plagiarism, fabrication scandals, and the state of American Journalism is pretty sad. It seems journalists nowadays are merely pimping for s book or movie deal, not on informaing, and investigating.

My beloved High School History teacher used to say "Truth is truth. You can't have opinions on truth'"

Personally, I am not going to get too worked up over this. I think this Blog Post is mostly PR fertilzer.

"Broadly Offensive" is way to vague and ambiguous a term for them the get away with any confiscation if challenged in court. Also, what they say in their Blog is not quite the same as the term becoming part of their TOS or Community Standards.

Important point, however, here. A Federal trial court has ruled in a motion that LL's Terms of Service constitute an adhesion contract. This is loosely defined as a "take it or leave it" type contract. The precedent value of this decision is probably extremely limited, although it could be persuasive to other jurisdictions. The interesting thing about adhesion contracts is that ambiguities are construed against the makers of the contract.

What this means in English is if LL starts confiscating SL property, they will hit by a rash of lawsuits, at least in the USA, and these lawsuits, depending on a wide variety of factors, could potentially be sucessful. LL would be extremely ill advised to go down this road and I, for one, don't think they are that foolish.

I suspect they will revise or amend TOS and/or CS first.

Its just PR and I am going to ignore it. When and if they amend TOS, I will pay more attention to it.

Now then, let's go shopping!!

I need shoes. Let's Go!

Brenda should have been named Imelda

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/1173911.stm

Oh God No! She had awful taste.

Vryl, you reading this?

This thread has veered into personal attacks and other non-appropriate comments and as such is being closed. Please do not use the Second Life forums to attack other Residents.