Voice just makes $ense

No - and if you read my post, you will find I never said they should.

However you claimed that

"Voice makes sense ... On the flip-side however, many people are insecure, slow-thinkers, shy, foreign, or AVs that absolutely need to keep their RL ego under wraps…there will always be complaints."

i.e. those who don't use voice are insecure, slow-thinking, etc. whiners.

I gave a whole list of situations where voice does not make sense - that there are situations where voice does make sense is not in debate, there are however a large number of scenarios where voice does not make sense, or where text has advantages over voice or where there isn't a clear choice of both text and voice have both advantages and disadvantages.

re 3 - I didn't say that I feel like I can't miss ANY thing in SL, I was illustrating that text has the advantage over voice that I don't have to miss things in SL due to RL interruptions. True, I don't have this advantage in RL, but why should I be restricted by what I can and can't do in RL when in SL - one of the joys of SL is being liberated from RL concerns.

re 7 - explain to me how pandora bot AI scripts are supposed to continue working if they can't "hear" the speaker, for example?

re 8 - "Also, usually (I've traveled the world) if you know a language well enough to write it, then you can talk it as well" - sorry I disagree - reading and writing a language is much easier, and people in general can work out what you mean even if the grammar and spelling is poor. On the other hand, it is quite common not to be understood when pronunciation is poor or incorrect.

re 13 - no matter how clever scripters are, if lsl doesn't support something, there is nothing a scripter can do. There's a whole raft of additional lsl functions needed for lsl support of the new speach functions (e.g. getting at the new speach properties of avatars and land parcels etc.), but no interest from LL in implementing these (and most of this is server side so the open source community can't do this themselves) or worse cannot be implemented due to the architecture LL has chosen to implement for voice.

re 14 - it isn't ludicrous, it was a summary of observations other have made of the impact of voice on other virtual worlds

re 15 - lets think about this. LL has put implementing voice above implementing a better physics engine, better rendering functions, more reliable inventory etc (despite some of these being years overdue!). Why is this a problem? Simply because those who do want voice "in" SL are already using voice extremely successfully via skype, there are in world add on tools which allow you to see if another user is using skype and initiate the skype conversation, there are other tools such as Second Life speach tools - i.e. many who wanted to used voice could do so via thirdparty tools. However, no thirdparty tool can improve the physics engine, prim rendering, inventory loss etc...

So to summarise:

a) voice does not universally make sense - there are valid situations (which you seem to agree with) where text makes more sense than voice, or situations where there is a balance and both voice and text have respective advantages and disadvantages

b) voice was not a priority since it could already be done via thirdparty tools (indeed the current implementation is not much better than some of the in world "i'm using skype" tools just that it is built into the viewer), unlike a number of other overdue features which are dependent on LL modifying the close source server code

c) voice was rushed out over other longer standing pending issues, without thought for the implications e.g. the necessary support needed in the scripting language (in the case of lsl enhancements, both in terms of allocating resources to do those enhancements or ensuring the implementation of voice would allow those enhancements).

Matthew

Also you seem to be inconsistent - in you last post you seem to be agreeing that there are places where texting will be used with comments like "If someone doesn't want to work with your foreign text, they aren't worth talking to in the first place"

yet in your earlier post you imply text will become dead - "Give it time…Voice will reign supreme."

Matthew

Firstly, Brenda--I don't even think you even read my entire post, and even if you did, you're worse than me. I NEVER bashed anyone in particular, however, YOU did. Keep that in mind the next time you look in the mirror. Do you know me? You have ZERO idea what you're talking about...judging me the way you do. I'm an extremely friendly guy, with a positive outlook on life. Swing by my studio sometimes and have a chat, and you'll see that.


My post was not about basing anybody, it was about being open and honest--call it curt if you will, but at least you know where you stand with me. I don't beat around the bush, which I think is a problem with not only SL, but RL too. I actually took the time to reply in an intelligent manner...whether you all agree with me or not is another story. I'm not being smug...I'm being forthcoming. Smug can be misinterpreted, this I understand, sometimes I am TOO forthcoming. I don't mean to offend...

Just because I give real-world examples of why people don't like to use voice, doesn't mean I'm trying to offend people--all my reasons were valid, and very real. If you want to pretend these things don't exist, that's your choice.

I don't see how someone could read my post, and not see that I have extremely valid, honest points. I'm not saying they suite everyones needs...they are opinions. But make no mistake, my reasons are very real. Perhaps you can create a second Second Life, and escape reality even further.

For those that can't take the heat, stay out of the kitchen--I mean that with all due respect. And if you can't reply back with an intelligent retort...don't bother posting.

Ahh nice of you to define when someone shoudl participate in the forums and when someone should post. Are you also the sitting judge on when a retort is intelligent or not?

You know what I mean Colette. Are you aware that you pull out only the negative, disagreeable parts of my posts, just to flame me over and over? I've noticed this with a lot of your posts to other citizens. You love to do that.

I think I've said a lot of honest, intelligent things--if you choose to be my editor, and skew my replies...more power to you. I hope it makes you feel good.

I suggest you and I meet in-world, and work this out over a few 1's and 0's.



My place or your's?

You miss the point

Of course I pick out the most disagreeable things people say - becuase those are the things I DISAGREE WITH.

Why would I disagree with the things that arent objectionable?

Gee for someone so self-promoting, I think you would have gotten that part.



The more asinine things you say stereotyping people outweighs anything you say that is "intelligent".

Generally its *slightly* more impressive for you to let others decide if what you say is intelligent. Otherwise you come off as a braggart.

And me commenting on things you say that I find objectionable doesnt make me feel good - If anything it makes me feel annoyed. Depending on how aggrivating the particular thing is.




No thanks.

You think you're better than me? I've seen your presence here on the forums..you call me a braggart? YOU'RE the know-it-all.

You are aware that posting doesn't have to be about disagreeing? I --and a lot of citizens-- post to AGREE with people, or give kudos for a specific concept or idea. You on the other hand, never seem to do that. You're using the forums as a flame tool.

You my digital-non-friend are a complete jerk, and I have zero respect for you. Get a life.

I dont think you've even managed to follow this one thread's actual conversation so I kind of have doubts about how useful this quoted commentary is.

Are you not in the same boat as me? Have you and I not gone off on our own tantrums? Do not post a blame, that you yourself are guilty of.

I love it though, the enemy is weakening!


lol.



I really want to be friends Colette. You won't win in a debate with me (and I won't win with you), so let's just drop it for the communities sake.

Thanks.

My original point was you have made comments where stereotype ALL of the people who wont be using voice.

Not the people arguing against voice even necessarily but the people not even commenting on these forums.

Thats the issue - thats why you come off so badly to me (and a couple others).

I havent made blanket statements that "All voice users are ... (whatever)" becuase thats not only stereotyping but it just doesnt make sense.

I try to limit my negative comments to those who have demonstrated an opinion on the matter that I disagree with.

At times Ill make broader comments about the other side of a particular issue. I feel its more effective to do that once the other side has made it clear how they feel about something. Or if there are long standing arguments.

You turning these points around and just wanting to make a personal argument out of it doesnt accomplish anything.

My post was that you stereotyping users was completely unneeded in your post on this thread.

Especially since you threw in a lot of negatives. Thus I refered to it as trolling. Surely you didnt throw in those negative comments thinking people would enjoy being called those things.

I'm sorry. My dog ate the part of the thesaurus where the words in this quote of yours:



are listed as synonyms with the word "kudos", variations of the word "agree", or any other word that intends to convey respect for the person being described.

What I haven't missed though is that you still continue to think your narrow little subset of the community is "The People of SL". still laughing about that one.

What you are really trying to sell here is that by repackaging your insults and painfully obvious feelings of superiority in a box labeled "Honest and forthcoming" they are no longer base insults and condescension. No sale.

Just remember something. The Edsel, the Corvair, and the Apple Lisa were also considered "The Future" at one time. Where are they now? Were they good ideas? Or were they poorly thought out bells and whistles that caused more problems then they solved and were dumped for being complete liabilities to their respective companies? You say voice is inevitable. It's not. The only thing still inevitable is death. You ought to feel great cause that's reality; something you seem to think others are inferior for not wanting to deal with here.

No sweetie, I was just being honest. Someone's got to be honest, you can't fluff up everything just to save the feelings of everybody. That's not life.

I'm blunt, and honest. And you make it sound like ALL the reasons I've listed for anti-voicers was negative. They certainly were not.

*Foreign --not negative.
*Shy --not negative
*Role Play --not negative

And yes, I do make negative references, but they are honest references. Did I slander anyone? No I did not...if those people want to lump themselves into my negative label, that's not my agenda, that's their's.

My list of voice positives was pretty comprehensive--yet for some reason, I get no, "Yes, good point here, I agree."

I only get negative replies.

And Colette, as far as your hypocrisy, you clearly don't get it. You have long strayed from the point of the thread. And you continue along with me. At least I admit our tantrum.

And I've tried to squelch our disagreeably, but you clearly want to keep it going.

I love you Colette!

I give kudos all the time. Using this SINGLE thread as an example does not hold in court.

Wait wait..."my narrow little subset of the community"...what is this? What narrow subset? The people that want voice to exist? lol...no I'M laughing about this one...there are thousands of voice lovers...you should reconsider your thinking about this "narrow subset" --and isn't it funny, how you hypocrites label as well.

I'm not insulting anyone (other than you two) . I AM being honest and forthcoming. Just because a few people disagreed with Martin Luther, did that make him a horrible man? (yes, I compared my self to Mr. King...have a field day with that one).

Voice for virtual worlds like Second Life isn't a poorly thought out concept. It's a natural evolutionary step. Why do you think VIOP (voice over internet protocol) is being implemented in nearly ALL gaming devices? Complaining about this technology for selfish reasons isn't going to make it go away. It's a positive addition, not a negative one.

You guys are funny.

After some consideration, I think you do a better job of refuting yourself than I ever could.

You also lump people not wanting voice into a group and slap a derogatory explanation on it. And you've done it in more than just this thread because I've responded to it in more than just this thread. If you want to rob banks and expect to be able to deny it later, don't wear a clown suit when you do it. I'd recognize your name anywhere so it's hard to say what you've never done. P.S. - I love that name. Can't lie



Yup. You heard me. If the voice loving voice needing voice-mongering community is as large as you purport, where is the mass-exodus from the game of said people given year after year of no reasonable expectation of voice support? Why can't anyone get even a double digit "pro-voice" vote on a poll here? Are voicers just boycotting the forum? Is that it?



I thought you were Mr. Kudo Man? And I have no doubt you are voicing your honest views. Never did dispute that. What I said is that you are also being shortsighted, lazy, abusive, and aloof and attempting to use the fact that you're being honest to make it okay. And the comparison with King is absurd. I defy you to find me one speech uttered by King that ever attempted to box up an entire group of people and label them inept, dim-witted, or inferior even when they demonstrated all of those things in persecuting and murdering his people.



Ya, and so was the monorail in Springfield.

Again with the generalization. This isn't a discussion about virtual worlds "like" SL. Other virtual worlds are designed with a care for their installed base of users. And as far as what "ALL gaming devices" are getting installed, what other things would you like to see done just because everybody's doing it?



Yes...laughter and ridicule are often the responses to lack of understanding aren't they?

In the immortal words of Stan Lee: Nuff said.

Who is Stan Lee?

OMG!!! BLASPHEMER!!!!!!!





Hint: 2 words- Marvel Comics.

EXCELSIOR!!!!

I knew someone would fall for it. I never thought it would be you.

Hey now! I'm a comic geek of long standing. Cant let Stan's name be unheard of!!!

Well Im an avid voice hater but only because Im deaf. People say well we can type too, but no one would sit and type out every word that has been said on voice chat so we could join in, we will only get half of the conversation.
The person who has insited that people use voice for lessons, I guess no deaf people will be attending that class either.
Unless your deaf no one could possibly see how bad this is for us, we will get half the convos and when people can be bothered to type the odd word to us it wont be in line with the rest of the chat on voice.
I am already gettting the ims asking why i dont do voice, in a world i origninally came to where i had zero disability i was just like everyone else, now I have to give out my medical history to prove im not lying. Its just one more nail in the coffin for me and I definately not looking forward to watching alot of avas stadning about doing sod all while they voice chat.
just my 10 cents.