Again: Fix Communicate Window
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Yiffy Yaffle
Purple SpiritWolf Mystic
Join date: 22 Oct 2004
Posts: 2,802
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08-15-2007 06:25
From: Matthew Dowd
I get a vague impression that the communicate window is someone's (someones' ?) pet project and they've got too personally attached to it - hence the reluctance to change direction on this - but I could be wrong.
Possibly. Such a huge change, you would think they would care how it effects people. Cloning the friend/groups window was a great idea. I still use the addon for that. I just hope it can keep up with LL updates. Either that or the source given to nicholaz or dale so they can implement to their clients. This is the reason i don't use their clients as much as i used to. They already updated to voice chat without doing something about the awful com window. |
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Brenda Archer
Registered User
Join date: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 557
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08-15-2007 06:30
Matthew, if you're going to these meetings pretty please tell them the chat history and IM also need to be separated. The reason is that if you're in a situation where there are large number of people all typing at once, you need to be able to see both windows going at once, and the IM window will constantly be adding tabs as more people try to IM you. I generally would run chat and IM across the top and bottom of the screen so I could walk as I typed.
And I don't know whose pet project this was, but if he's reading this I want to tell him that the new Communicate window has made life hell for anyone who has many customers or runs large meetings. That's a lot of people.
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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08-15-2007 06:48
We always have to hear both sides of the story...
From my eyes (trained designer) the new communication window is a BETTER design than the previous.
I'm sorry some of you can't IM over a dozen people at once and still SEE the world in front of you...but that is not a design flaw...that is an extreme that has to be dealt with. The majority of citizens aren't running meetings, IMing a dozen people at once, and needing to see the room as well.
I understand some of you are having problems with this new setup...from my standpoint, however, it's an improvement.
_____________________
~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs 
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-15-2007 07:57
From: Michael Bigwig We always have to hear both sides of the story...
From my eyes (trained designer) the new communication window is a BETTER design than the previous.
I'm sorry some of you can't IM over a dozen people at once and still SEE the world in front of you...but that is not a design flaw...that is an extreme that has to be dealt with. The majority of citizens aren't running meetings, IMing a dozen people at once, and needing to see the room as well.
I understand some of you are having problems with this new setup...from my standpoint, however, it's an improvement. LOL Who is the interface DESIGNED for? consider that. If most of the proponents of the new design are IT people - it really isnt a selling feature. |
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Matthew Dowd
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,046
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08-15-2007 07:58
From: Michael Bigwig From my eyes (trained designer) the new communication window is a BETTER design than the previous. Taken out of context from a design perspective the new communication window looks good. Taken within the context of the SL Viewer from a HCI (Human Computer Interaction) perspective - although it contains some additional controls which are an improvement, overall it is a backwards step. The fact that some many people have complained (see jira) is indicative of that. The real reason why the communication window is not an improvement overall from a HCI perspective is that it has ignored the whole UI philosophy of Second Life itself. The raison d'etre of SecondLife is an emmersive 3d environment and the whole SL Viewer is meant to be the means of communicating with and within that environment. The new communication window is essentially a stand alone skype-like application within the SL Viewer - this segrates communication from the 3D visualsiation. It forces the user to view communicating (via text or voice) as entirely seperate from the 3D graphics. Apart from the fact you cannot drag the communicator outside of the SL Viewer, it may as well be skype running alongside a 3D renderer! Almost all of the complaints about the communication viewer stem from people wanting to be able to arrange the various component windows seperately within the SL Viewer. This is fundamentally because either conciously or subconciously they have picked up on the original philosophy of the SL viewer being the communication application and viewing the various mechanisms (text, voice, 3d graphics etc.) as integral components within that, so they want to be able to arrange those components with no component taking providence or any components being linked or segregated from the others. Not pulling all the text/voice/friends/groups components into one place, helps guide the user into viewing the whole SecondLife experience as an integral whole which delivers the objective of SL being an immersive environment. That is why fundamentally the new communication window is not an improvement to the SL Viewer and experience overall, and why it has received such a poor reception from the community. Matthew |
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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08-15-2007 08:04
From: Colette Meiji LOL
Who is the interface DESIGNED for?
consider that.
If most of the proponents of the new design are IT people - it really isnt a selling feature. Right, because we designers only care about the look of something. The functionality isn't our concern right? And we only design things for one group of people. Ourselves. lol...I'm joshing with you Colette. 
_____________________
~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs
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Michael Bigwig
~VRML Aficionado~
Join date: 5 Dec 2005
Posts: 2,181
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08-15-2007 08:05
From: Matthew Dowd Taken out of context from a design perspective the new communication window looks good.
Taken within the context of the SL Viewer from a HCI (Human Computer Interaction) perspective - although it contains some additional controls which are an improvement, overall it is a backwards step. The fact that some many people have complained (see jira) is indicative of that.
The real reason why the communication window is not an improvement overall from a HCI perspective is that it has ignored the whole UI philosophy of Second Life itself. The raison d'etre of SecondLife is an emmersive 3d environment and the whole SL Viewer is meant to be the means of communicating with and within that environment.
The new communication window is essentially a stand alone skype-like application within the SL Viewer - this segrates communication from the 3D visualsiation. It forces the user to view communicating (via text or voice) as entirely seperate from the 3D graphics. Apart from the fact you cannot drag the communicator outside of the SL Viewer, it may as well be skype running alongside a 3D renderer!
Almost all of the complaints about the communication viewer stem from people wanting to be able to arrange the various component windows seperately within the SL Viewer. This is fundamentally because either conciously or subconciously they have picked up on the original philosophy of the SL viewer being the communication application and viewing the various mechanisms (text, voice, 3d graphics etc.) as integral components within that, so they want to be able to arrange those components with no component taking providence or any components being linked or segregated from the others. Not pulling all the text/voice/friends/groups components into one place, helps guide the user into viewing the whole SecondLife experience as an integral whole which delivers the objective of SL being an immersive environment.
That is why fundamentally the new communication window is not an improvement to the SL Viewer and experience overall, and why it has received such a poor reception from the community.
Matthew Right, because we designers only care about the look of something. The functionality isn't our concern right? I agree a lot with what you said. And I'm not trying to be a prick with the above double post...I just hope you guys seriously don't think designers only care about the "look" of something when they design it...I've designed several UIs...and I like the new one--this includes its functionality. Not everyone complains about the new workflow...
_____________________
~Michael Bigwig __________________________________________________Lead Designer, Glowbox Designs
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Colette Meiji
Registered User
Join date: 25 Mar 2005
Posts: 15,556
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08-15-2007 08:17
From: Michael Bigwig Right, because we designers only care about the look of something. The functionality isn't our concern right? And we only design things for one group of people. Ourselves. lol...I'm joshing with you Colette. Thats the issue though - if it is only intuitive and easily used by people of a IT type background. Its not necessarily a good UI. The person who it should be designed for is the typical SL Resident. Get 20 brand new users at random and ask them which interface is easier to use. Then it might mean something if the new one was the one chosen. |
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Nika Talaj
now you see her ...
Join date: 2 Jan 2007
Posts: 5,449
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08-15-2007 08:21
Well, there is a version of the voice viewer with separate group, IM, friends at: http://nicholaz-beresford.blogspot.com/ He says his latest (18xe) is stable. From nicholaz, king of bug fixes. For those who don't know his work, he does not replace the SL viewers, his executable just installs patches before the SL viewer runs. Also, he's still offering his more stable version of the pre-voice viewer(18h). Plus the little add-on that makes the friends list more friendly. |
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Draco18s Majestic
Registered User
Join date: 19 Sep 2005
Posts: 2,744
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08-15-2007 10:57
From: Michael Bigwig I agree a lot with what you said. And I'm not trying to be a prick with the above double post...I just hope you guys seriously don't think designers only care about the "look" of something when they design it...I've designed several UIs...and I like the new one--this includes its functionality.
Not everyone complains about the new workflow... Those people not complaining would be the ones using voice, right? I believe it's been determinded that people either: a) voice chat b) interact with the world or IMs When in (a) you don't CARE about the clinky interface because you aren't using it. When in (b) these people tend to do voice IMs and thus, again, don't notice the interface. People have trouble focusing on interacting with a 3D environment when talking and listening. Where as people who use text can follow up to (about) 5 different conversations WHILE coding or building AT THE SAME TIME. They use all aspects of the user interface simultaneously. The new UI forces them to constantly switch tabs and burry things, making them spend more time using the UI than doing work. It's like a laptop keyboard with an Fn key to use the numpad (the 7,8,9,0,u,i,o,p,j,k,l,;,m,.,/ keys) in a program that ONLY accepts input from the numpad. You can't just *do* it, you have to hold down another key, then hunt and peck for the key you want instead of being able to do it by feel. |
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Darien Caldwell
Registered User
Join date: 12 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,127
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08-15-2007 12:50
From: Michael Bigwig Right, because we designers only care about the look of something. The functionality isn't our concern right? And we only design things for one group of people. Ourselves. lol...I'm joshing with you Colette. Actually thats the most accurate thing you've ever said. It's especially true of Designers with high opinions of themselves.  |
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Brenda Archer
Registered User
Join date: 28 Apr 2005
Posts: 557
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08-15-2007 19:35
From: Matthew Dowd Taken out of context from a design perspective the new communication window looks good.
Taken within the context of the SL Viewer from a HCI (Human Computer Interaction) perspective - although it contains some additional controls which are an improvement, overall it is a backwards step. The fact that some many people have complained (see jira) is indicative of that.
The real reason why the communication window is not an improvement overall from a HCI perspective is that it has ignored the whole UI philosophy of Second Life itself. The raison d'etre of SecondLife is an emmersive 3d environment and the whole SL Viewer is meant to be the means of communicating with and within that environment.
The new communication window is essentially a stand alone skype-like application within the SL Viewer - this segrates communication from the 3D visualsiation. It forces the user to view communicating (via text or voice) as entirely seperate from the 3D graphics. Apart from the fact you cannot drag the communicator outside of the SL Viewer, it may as well be skype running alongside a 3D renderer!
Almost all of the complaints about the communication viewer stem from people wanting to be able to arrange the various component windows seperately within the SL Viewer. This is fundamentally because either conciously or subconciously they have picked up on the original philosophy of the SL viewer being the communication application and viewing the various mechanisms (text, voice, 3d graphics etc.) as integral components within that, so they want to be able to arrange those components with no component taking providence or any components being linked or segregated from the others. Not pulling all the text/voice/friends/groups components into one place, helps guide the user into viewing the whole SecondLife experience as an integral whole which delivers the objective of SL being an immersive environment.
That is why fundamentally the new communication window is not an improvement to the SL Viewer and experience overall, and why it has received such a poor reception from the community.
Matthew Well said, many thanks. |
