Do We Really Want Teens in Main Grid?

Open source and third-party servers hooked to the LL grid are sounding better to me all the time.

So let LL's continents, if it keeps them, be presided over by Barney the Dinosaur (Bugs Bunny would be too advanced - ZOMG, A FURRIE!). And let everybody else go visit, live at, and spend in third-party servers, whose owners will be responsible for what goes on there. Then Daniel Linden and/or anyone who might have put him up to it can bloviate all they want. Barney won't mind. Neither will we.

But until that day, no, I think we don't want to create a groomer's paradise in SL.

Does he specifically say that means all content should/will be kid friendly? Not from what I saw...



I think you're putting words in his mouth here. There's a difference between making EVERYTHING 13+ and having the overall system be available to 13+. It's already like this with the internet as it is. There are sites that you're not supposed to visit if you're under 18. There are also ratings and parental control options to limit what areas of the internet are available...the internet is still available to 13 year olds as an overall system...just like SL being available to 13 year olds overall with certain areas off limits...which Danny is saying there.



Doesn't mean there will be no areas under 18s will be restricted from.



None of that goes against what I've said. The current system should be done away with because of what I already said. It's too limiting...like having only PG and R ratings on movies. The new "adult content" flagging will add another level to that which I think is a good thing. Again, it's just like the regular internet which is LL's overall goal.

I still think you're looking for reasons to hate Lindens here.

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...and jives with the idea that there will still be mature areas that aren't "adult" but aren't kid zones. They might not be called "mature" anymore but it'll be the same basic idea. LL has already been quite clear about what will be what with age verification and the above doesn't contradict any of that.




I don't think you need to be presented with information to form your own opinions. You seem to come to your own conclusions regardless of what is ACTUALLY presented.

Squeezeone land has banned overzealous assumptions created to demonize people someone doesn't like.



As have I but "making up your own mind" doesn't mean "adjust the available information to come to whatever conclusion you want to have". You're adding information in the many gaps of Danny's summary of what's possibly going to happen.

I didnt put any words in his mouth he says it at 1:14:20 , and at 1:15:50

I resent your accusations. I dont accuse you of sugarcoating your interpretations of what he said.


Basically
-Adult Content will be controlled by flagging your land Adult on a parcel basis (He says this)
-PG and Mature will be going away (He says this)
-All ages / 13+ areas will exist, where All ages can participate (he says this)
-Adult only Areas will exist (he says this)
-Teen Areas will exist (he says this)


You know what?

Its real easy to accuse people of things, but I havent seen you give me quotes that are contrary to what Ive said he said.

Becuase Ive gone through it again to to make sure I wasnt putting words in his mouth. (that would be the 3rd time on this stuff, just now)

So how is any of this going against what I've been saying all the time??

Is he saying PG and Mature AREAS will go away or just that particular rating system? I heard him talk about the rating system. Maybe he has two movies and sent a different one to Squeezeone Land.



That's because it's a matter of what he HASN'T said. I can't give you quotes on that. You've been drawing illogical conclusions between his generalizations.

But I guess if you don't like the guy there's nothing stopping you from continuing.

What youve said is im making stuff up - thats how it goes agaisnt what you said - becuase I didnt.

What do you think I said? heres the quote I posted That got you on this kick -




Thats EXACTLY what he said - that there will be All ages and Adult areas.

Who is the one who is stating stuff based on the person and not what they said?



I never said I didnt Like Dan L - I said he shouldnt be posting on the Blog. Becuase he has a tendacy to either not be clear or to Directly conflict previous Linden Documentation WITHOUT mentioning said documentation when he does so.

Ive also said I dont like him calling for people to report on the neighbors- Encouraging people to turn in people is no good - it just gives those who already were going to use this policy as an excuse to intrude on other resident's affairs more justification.

The thing is, he's not necessarily actually saying this. You're assuming that by his statement of the PG/Mature system being done away with that this means there will only be all ages and adult areas with no in between. He's not saying that. He's saying they will make a new system to better reflect the content that's out there.

You're making it look like they're going to be censoring everything that isn't one or the other. That's not accurate.



Well, since I'm going off of what you've been saying I'll only assume you aren't referring to me.



What do you think the current AR sytem is?? When's the last time you saw a linden walking a beat to make sure everyone is behaving? I personally haven't even SEEN a linden in SL for almost a year now. They've been running off of residents' reporting problems for as long as I've been in SL. The particulars of the system has changed but the overall idea hasn't.

All they're really doing is re-stating what has always been the situation. You and many others on the forum are just getting paranoid over it because they've also made a decision to ban certain activities (rape RP and sexual ageplay) along with said announcement.

"I think well always have a 18+ space I think people want a space for adults , and I think well have an All ages space as well, and its also important to have that safe space as well." Dan L

And how do you make adult places in the new system? You flag it.

How else could you do it if theres no PG or Mature?

Im not making some huge stretch of logic.

You just can't let go of the PG/Mature system, can you??

Where does that say that EVERYWHERE will only be for kids or for adults? It doesn't. Let go of the PG/Mature thing. We'll get you through this together.

Nothing said in the above quote states that everything will either be mickey mouse or porn with no in-betweens which you implied earlier. He's outlining the basic idea of a new system that would have to exist for the teen and main grids to be integrated. There are too many generalizations in the above statement to come to the conclusion of "all or nothing" that you have.

He also mentioned (and Captain Phil did in another article) a new system where you will have a bit less anonymity...partially through age verification and partially through linking your SL account to different accounts out there...WoW, MySpace, etc.

If all of these were an option or a requirement it would go without saying that the system would know your age and be able to keep a 13 year old out of an area marked the equivalent of R or NC-17 and keep a 17 year old out of an 18+ area (for example). This is a possibility that would be likely if any of the above were to come to pass...none of which counters what you've quoted, but counters what you've been assuming as the meaning of what you've quoted.

Don't get it twisted. SL won't get Disneyed up any more than it already is anytime soon.

He very Specifically says that content rating will be controlled by the parcel owner

I think it is you who are missing the point.

It doesnt matter if there are 300 different 18+ levels of content or just one.

If by flipping a switch you deny everyone who isnt verified 18+ then you have effectively made only two catagories of content as far as access is concerned.

All the Unverifieds will be left out of the 18+ content

They will also be unable to go to the Teen "safe" area (17-)

So they will be able to go to "all ages only"

I doubt it. The above doesn't mean anything. If they are given multiple rating choices then they can make it whatever they want. This doesn't change what I've said.



Yeah, you are missing the point.

The way it reads to me is, you'll have PG or adult, mature will be redundant. What's the point of a mature flag when there's an adult flag? If the content isn't suitable for an under 18, then it's adult. There's no point in a still having a mature flag.

As a teacher (not sure why you included us in your note) I joined for some adult conversation, and interaction. If I want to interact with teens I will go to MYSPACE.

all right -

You have people who are verified as teens
You have people who are verified 18+
You have people who are unverified


You set your parcel for "All ages" All three groups can enter. Fairly simple.

You set your parcel for "violence" which denies anyone who isnt verified 18+

You set your parcel for "no teens" which denies anyone who isnt verified 18+

You set your parcel for "language" which denies anyone who isnt verified 18+

you set your parcel for "Sex" which denies anyone who isnt verified 18+

You set your parcel for "porn" which denies anyone who isnt verified 18+

Whats the big difference? the result is the same.

Any content that requires you to keep teens out will also keep out unverifieds, becuase since they arent verified they could be teens.

So then will places where people are free to cuss (for example) be considered adult or for kids? Right now it's supposed to be in mature areas only. I was under the impression that the adult flag would be for more explicit things like sex, nudity, etc.

If what you're saying is the case then all they're doing is changing the term "mature" into "adult" which is pointless.

I'm just saying how it reads to me, you have to remember that the adult/mature distinction is aimed at the 18+ grid. If the 18+ grid goes, there's no point in having the mature flag.

Places that are free to cuss, won't be free to cuss once kids get here unless they're flagged as adult. ID verification is aimed at proving you're an adult, only those who are verified are going to be able to access 18+ land, so once the kids here, you'll need to flag parcels with strong language as adult.

This is all of course speculation, Robin Linden said the other week that no such plans existed but I'm pretty sure she hinted at another 13+ grid in which adults and kids would roam.

That would seem more reasonable to me.

Either way it would be a while before any of this happens. They can't even keep their adults from getting them into legal trouble at this point!

well ll might hit a few snags if this is their approach.
i've 'bought' and paid for mature land and i will not be told it is pg.
if i want to swear or whatnot on that land i will, and i will not flag it as 'adult' to do so.
daniel linden told me to use my judgement and common sense, and that is where it takes me. in my world, 'adult' is hardcore porn and gore/violence. adult is not nudity, swearing, sexuality, etcetc.

Exactly.

If they merge the grids, Unverifieds will be considered under 18 for content purposes.

I'm just voicing my opinion Nina, I'm not saying it's fact but logically, if kids are here, a lot more than hardcore porn etc. are going to have to be flagged as adult and that would definitely include nudity.

maybe its definite for you, but its certainly not for me.

Dan seemed very confident it was going to happen eventually.

This of course makes sense since EVENTUALLY the "3d internet" wont be 18+

Im sure that when it happens there will be plenty of people who will flag their land just to keep kids out.

I always wondered- if they can make a separate grid for "Teens" and one for "adults", why couldnt they make one where the two meet? Naturally there'd be some restrictions on content, etc.

Sort of a place where parents AND their kids can work together? With an Approval System of some sort.

As for teens on Main Grid, if the Majority of Teens are like the ones I have to work with .... NO. No No No!!!

They'll be like a decent amount of people on the main grid...since a decent amount of people on the main grid are teens!

No, we do not.

That said however, the proposed ID verification method is bad as well. There has to be a better way that doesn't expose our identities to foreign companies.

Well keeping the grids separate is a good start in that respect.