Singing the Content Creator's Blues...

Does this situation sound familiar to you?
I can't be the only one wrestling with this issue.

Has anyone found a safe way of coping with this problem?

My only solution so far is to charge absurdly high rates for transfer work, which, of course, also elicits the "arrogant rude bastard" response.

Haven't run into that but I guess it's more reasons to try and learn how to use all the features. The overall product may suffer a bit, but could still be great overall, no worries about other people's errors, and you have the most control (and get the most return) for what you make. Of course, I've just done script+texture+build so far, no animations.

Just kill Carl...

When you have done what other can't do, or can't be bothered to do, it's not arrogance to charge for it. Everyone has equal opportunity, but what do you know? they don't experience equal outcomes.

-Sheba
http://bathsheba.com

Jopsy,
I for one would expect you to charge a premium rate for a special particle script for my use in creations.

As a human I may screw up and forget to change permissions (though I doubt it as I have seen the pain this causes friends of mine as thier full perm animations appear at yard sales all over). In your field, scripting you may consider making the script no mod but offering the notecard config like Outy does. I have bought some of his particle packs with notecard configs in the past. It worked.

Just a suggestion but I am sure you have thought of this already.

Macphisto-

Scripts... there are definitely a variety of ways to make a copy+trans script a less willing to co-operate with an unauthorised reseller.

My dilemma revolves around particle textures. They're they primary source of compensation I have to keep the particle lab running. I'd love to be able to license someone to re-sell no-transfer versions of them.

One of the methods I've considered is setting up an 'earned so far' counter and setting some (realistic) expected level of revenue per particle texture. Once the vendomat has crossed that threshhold it would make copy+transfer versions available for sale as well, giving people the ability to wait or pay off the remainder.

Hmm.

/me puts on dark sunglasses and picks up a a harmonica


Made a fantastic animation...
Na nah nah na nah

It got distributed all over SL...
Na nah nah na nah

Refuse to help Carl...
Na nah nah na nah

And I get bad mouthed in the Forums

I gots the low down Content Creator Blues





Sorry, I just couldn't resist
(with appologies to Blind Lemon & all other Blues artists)

I think you are onto something there Jopsy.

Another method I have wondered why designers haven't tried (to my knowledge) is offering a chance to join a group for a fee. Once someone joins that group they have the oppurtunity to buy say textures on a no copy but transfer option. These would be at a low rate because they could only be used once. The rate would be one that would be low enough to make resell lucrative but high enough that you make a few lindens on each you sell. Not so much following the traditional prices of textures. The downside is it would take a little longer for the creator to produce items, but in the long run it would be profitable for everyone involved. These could even be bundled up in bulk packs for further savings. (100 of texture A saves the reseller 15% etc).

It sounds like more hassle to the reseller then the open permission option but since the reseller did not make the texture it is not a high price in time to pay as opposed to making it. Until LL figures out something or you make that script to count uses it is the most secure method I can think of.

LOL maybe I just ate paint chips as a child.

It's kind of funny (funny sad), really, that people who are as nice and helpful as you are get given this "arrogant rude bastard" label by people who are much more suited to the label.

/claps

More!

More!

An earlier poster replied with "Just kill Carl," which is a bit extreme for my tastes, but identifies the problem succinctly. There is nothing wrong with your system, the problem is with Carl. I would say "Just ignore Carl's (stupid, selfish, etc.), remarks."

If you look at your current policy as a system that already works - and it seems to - to re-design it around the existence of "Carl," who can be considered in this model to be a sort of broken or non-working part, is bad system design.

I would concentrate on designing a fair, easy-to-understand, rational system for normal, non-idiotic/non-selfish people instead of thinking of ways to satisfy jerks. Unless the Carl's are sufficiently high in number, or overly vocal, they can be safely ignored.

Jeremy,
The problem with "Carl" goes beyond just calling him a jerk, etc.

One "Carl" redistributing Jopsy's textures in a way that allows the texture to float out into the populace can cost Jopsy lots of money.

For instance let's say I make an animation for "Carl". I mark it open perms so he can use it over and over in his builds. Whoops, "Carl" forgot to check the no copy option. Now someone buys "Carl's" creation and is able to take the animation I made out of it since "Carl" allowed his item to be mod. Next thing I know I am walking through a yard sale and find that animation in a box being sold for $L10. I look around and it is at yard sales all over SL. Now nobody will pay me for my hard work in making that animation. They will just get them for pennies.

For that reason Jopsy has to either bite the bullet or find a better system then what SL offers.

I've just logged in and did a search. There's only about 105 Carls in SL.

I am in total agreement.

My remarks were based on what appeared to be an exception Jopsy made in an otherwise fine rule-set as a favour to "Carl" who turned out to be foolish/careless etc. So my point was don't make the exceptions to the otherwise fine rule-set.

If you want more practical advice, I would either charge ten times the price for a mod/copy version (as the animators do), or don't sell mod/copy anything if you don't feel like giving up the control.

I would also argue that there is a case to be made for the systematic or eventual devaluation of artwork, especially in the case of a simple particle texture. Personally, I would probably institute some scheme to make the older textures eventually become full mod/copy textures, but to save myself the overhead of the complicated scripting example I would just periodically set the old stuff as mod/copy.

I would determine what counted as "old stuff" in a completely subjective way on a whim.

Not knowing exactly the kind of textures we are talking about I would add one caveat. Animated textures, particularly fire and smoke, are impossible to find. The same two fire animations for example are in every SL product that uses fire. If we are talking about animated high quality textures like that, then I say keep them no-mod/no-copy for as long as you need to, charge whatever the market will bear, and don't feel guilty at all.

Edit: I think in both replies I am actually confabulating "Bob" and "Carl" into one person. Apologies. (Likely cause I followed on from the original "Kill carl" post. )

IF "Bob"
AND _ModCopy == TRUE
THEN "Carl"

There is no escaping it.

If your goal is to avoid ever being accused of being an arrogant rude bastard, then give your work away. If however your goal is to protect your creations and make money, just accept that some people will call you an arrogant rude bastard. I charge high rates for custom work; some people don't really mind because it's worth it, while some people bitch and moan that they can't afford it. I'm fine with that; I don't want to work with the latter people anyway.

@ Jeremy..

It would be cool for creators to do your idea for letting old stock go out that way. I am finding around SL some of the content creators simply never log in much anymore.

Well.. we have more and more people coming in everyday so maybe some will catch a vision like that.

If you kill Carl he just gets sent back to his home location.



P2

I use Craig Altman's animations in my products and I try to be ever so careful about changing those permissions before putting items up for sale. Given the quality of his work, I am more than happy to pay a premium price for copy & trans items of his. If you build attractive products that sell, the return on investment is pretty quick. A great animation in a lousy product isn't going to sell and recoup costs anywhere near as quickly as something well designed, priced correctly for the market and advertised effectively. Any designer willing to let go of a product that is copy and trans enabled needs to price that product at a premium to cover the inevitable losses from customers who fail to change permissions before they resell - that's just the way it is. There are plenty of freebie animations and poses for new content creators to play with while they build their skills and businesses. If $1000L for a high quality animation with copy and trans permissions enabled is too much for you, then you need to hone your skills until you are selling enough consistantly and ready to move up to higher quality products.

btw, I hope this was just a joke for effect, and this isn't how you actually respond. Just saying "no" or charging a high rate is fine, but yelling and cussing is certainly rude.

I wouldn't worry too much about it, Jopsy. I've always been polite with my customers , but have never been successful in really explaining why I choose the permissions I choose, or why I'll do some custom work, but not most. Trial and error leads to most merchant decisions, from my experience. Once bitten, twice shy, and all that.

I've always known you as a very polite and reputable merchant and creator in SL, who came highly recommended from people I trusted since the time I joined SL, and I think that anyone who takes the time to do some research on you will discover the same thing. Not everyone will understand your decisions, but all you can reasonably expect is that they'll respect your decisions, and even that won't be all that common.

Keep on as you're going and just accept that not everyone will understand, but that those who give it some real thought will.

Best wishes!

To be fair... it should be "Kill Bob" for being clumsy!

We'll never know if Carl would have respected the voluntary copyright restriction. Being told you can't be trusted stings, no matter how much sugar coating is used. I wouldn't fault Carl for his outburst if I refused his request tactlessly. [ When badgered I may want to spout off with "NO @(#&#(*ING WAY!"... I'm too @#&*$ polite though. ]

Jeremy- Your suggestion sounds kind of like what 'wrappers' were supposed to be. There was a lot of momentum behind the idea for a while, but I think it died a murky death, mired by complexity and conflicting objectives. If I remember correctly some of the concepts included: Customer gets to pick either COPY or TRANS when 'unwrapping' an object. There was also something about objects becoming mod after an aging interval.



RobbyRacoon: It's kind of funny (funny sad), really, that people who are as nice and helpful as you are get given this "arrogant rude bastard" label by people who are much more suited to the label.

Johan: If your goal is to avoid ever being accused of being an arrogant rude bastard, ...
I don't mind a well-earned accusation of being an 'arrogant rude bastard' title from time to time... (Community service helps me atone for my rampant ego. )

What I find frustrating is the "pushy" types that demand copy+trans, who, by their very attitude of self-entitlement, are more likely to dis-respect the "voluntary" copyright restrictions.

Macphisto- I like the group idea... sort of a shoppers club for discount rates. Some of the alternate approaches I toyed with included selling *cheap* transfer/no-copy versions and letting re-sellers assemble each product by hand, (but avoided it assuming this method might be wasteful with asset server resources).

I also thought of having a deposit system... "You want copy+trans? Put L$10,000 into this box. Show me the final version of your product/creation using the texture and if the perms are correct, I'll refund the deposit." Kind of a "If you trust me, I'll trust you." obstacle. It seems like something an "Arrogant rude bastard" would do though.

I'll explore the "L$'s needed to unlock" vendormat method a bit more for now.

p.s. (added in edit) Jonquille- *BLUSH* You're very kind... and you've absolutely hit the nail on the head. Some folks push so hard that I get defensive trying to justify my choices in pricing and permission. My being polite encourages them to push harder thinking I'll yield... and we both end up frustrated and annoyed at each other. I need to be more blunt I think.

--
(what do you mean too many images? Gah... delete smiley, delete smiley...)

Just to chime in agreement with Jonquille, I find one's reputation is generally unassailable if well-deserved, and yours seems to be both. I also find people are generally agreeable but nothing will stop people from complaining even if you are doing everything right.

For instance I have had complaints about "my support" for my Radio which is a free item given out with all permissions enabled. Then you get greedy types turning around and selling crappy knock-off's of the thing with the script locked down, no transfer/no copy!

You can't force people to be decent or reasonable in my experience. it comes from within.

Because I respect you, and I don't think you'll use this without credit, I'll allow you to use my patented response.

Control + C to Query Zomg! why u not use tranfr u steal frm meee?!
Control + V Answer: Because humans, aside from being annoying and illiterate, as you obviously represent, are also shitbags.. who will lie, cheat and steal from their peers on a continuous basis unless/until faced with extreme consequence. Doubly so when faced with the anonymity of the internet and untraceable accounts. Therefore, I'm forced to take the most extreme option available, and not even allow you to give it to your 'friends', since they'll most likely spend every waking moment from gift onward trying to figure out how to make money off what I spent the last few hours making for you. Suck it up, dirtbag!

(This reads as "blah blah blah No, blah blah blah Nice try. Blah blah blah My own reasons."

I have one friend who acts as a middleman for an article of clothing I make. I give him a number of them with mod/trans perms. When he runs out I give him more.

Could objects for resale be sold in "middleman" packs of 100 or whatever?

I don't see why someone couldn't load up a vendormat with a bunch of no-copy items (sure they'd have sequence numbers on them, but that shouldn't be a big deal). When the vendormat runs out, it IM's it's owner and creator and then would show an "Out of Stock" sign and shut down... =) Could even divvy the payments up between the owner (retailer) and creator as it operated. (And I've no doubt that someone has already set up something like this)