how rich are they getting

Can anyone tell me how much money the major developers(electric sheep, river run red) are charging big corporations to build a presence for them. And what do they charge to make commercials and videos?

The 'big ones' like you mention might charge $20,000 or more for a 'major corporation' build.

Obviously, that only gets them the big clients - the prestigious ones that they want to use to namedrop and impress other corporations. Everyone else wanting a SL build simply goes to others in the developers directory, which can in most cases do a similar build for a fraction of the cost.

Ultimately, most 'corporate presences' in SL fail, because they don't take the time to understand what Second Life is, simply treating it as a cheap advertising opportunity instead of a way to engage potential customers face-to-face.

Not sure about videos - but if you're talking machinema, there's quite a few in the developers directory that offer those services too.

Broccoli

This article talkes about the major four: http://www.businessweek.com/innovate/content/oct2006/id20061030_869611.htm

Rivers Run Red:
ESC:
Aimee Weber Studio:
Millions of Us:

Sounds like a mere $20k US doesn't get you much more than a bunch of plywood cubes .

The "big four", as you call them, all have lots of employees and huge overheads. Most of the others are the SL equivalent of "Fred and a shed", working alone, part time from home.

They may not be able to turn around a complete project in a couple of days - but given 3 days and $20,000 or 3 weeks and $2,000 to choose from ... I know which I'd prefer, especially if I was so disorganised I wasn't able to give 3 weeks notice.

Big does not always mean best, even in the metaverse.

Additionally, of course, the 'big companies' are doing it simply to make money - the smaller ones are doing it generally as a supplementary income of something they enjoy already doing in Second Life

You'll find a lot of their websites are full of corporate buzzwords, jargon, and "distilled achieveables" ... which don't mean much to those outside of the corporate world, or the general SL public. What they put on their websites - and even more what they don't put - can tell you a lot about the people behind the brand.

Broccoli

Broccoli and Kitty, thank you much for the info. I have another question that is off topic. If i were to host a show, where would be the best place to find good camera men and producers?

Machinima usually runs around $30 - $60 USD per hour for those that have some experience whether soley in SL or RL also. I suspect there are some who do charge less. Just don't go on price alone, always review past work prior to making a decision.

Best place to start is the machinima section of the forums.

Not really my expertise... but take a look at the list on the developers directory for consultants - there's plenty listed.

http://secondlife.com/developers/listings.php?category=Consultant

The only one I know anything about is Robo Studios, who list on their website (www.robostudios.com) a full-length documentary in SL.

Broccoli

Robbie Dingo is a master.

Beeg mone. My company who isnt one of the major developers havent charged less than $100k for a SL campaign in the last 12 months.

One four island build was a lot more.

Its actually very profitable as most of the major players tend to freelance designers, scripters etc so we dont carry the overheads of them sitting around when they arent working.

Zog/Bella

I am SUCH a robbie dingo fan! =oO

I'd probably go to ANYTHING he was putting together even if it was a display of his dirty socks collection.

I'll supply anyone with a bunch of plywood cubes for half of what my competitors charge for the same plywood cubes!

On second thought, I possibly shouldn't make that claim. I've just spent a few weeks on my first building project of constructing and texturing a house, and it doesn't look like anything I could in good faith sell someone. Of course a pro would be better and faster, but I can have a little bit of an appreciation for how a simple advertising campaign in Second Life could blow through $10,000.00 fast, if one is paying professional rates for professional work.

Though here's what strikes me: Even though they have spent tens of thousands of dollars on advertising campaigns in Second Life, I can't recall, in my mere five months of existence, seeing names like Adidas, Nike, Audi, Starwood Hotels, and American Apparel in Second Life.

(I have seen Reuters. I can't remember where and it what context, but I'm fairly sure I have seen mention of Reuters in Second Life.)

Because the vast majority of advertising campaigns in Second Life fail dismally, because they don't "engage" the community. It's all well and good having a giveaway 'something' but people will go to the island, spend 2 minutes there, get the 'something' and then go somewhere else if there isn't anything else to do there.

Most corporations want to be here because of, or before, their competitors. They don't have the time or the inclination to spend hours "in" SL talking to people, finding out about people's perceptions of their product, or even paying others to be there gathering information for them. So they end up deserted. Every single time I have been to any of the 'big name builds' I have been, or almost been, alone, regardless of the time of day.

It always baffles me how a big corporation with budgets of billions of dollars can fail so spectacularly in Second Life, yet an otherwise unknown individual with a bit of inspiration and skill can achieve so much, at a fraction of the price.

Broccoli

They may not actually consider their initial investments here a "failure" at all, let alone a spectacular failure.

It's possible they see Second Life as a future potential, not a current potential, and their initial foot-in-the-door as just that, an initial presence not meant to increase sales/market.

Not looking for "ROI" at this stage, more like "R&D".

An early experiment and acclimation. Just an entry point to later come back and develop more, once they think the concept of SL is developed more, and once they eventually "grok" it better.

$20K is probably trivial to them and about on a par to redecorating somebody's office space. Or on a smaller scale, like someone purchasing a domain name or filing for a trademark they don't intend to fully develop yet, but do intend to develop down the road. Not a failure and not a wasted investment at all.

How long have "big companies" had a presence in SL? Does anyone actualy pay any attention to them or are they just wasting their money?

Or maybe they can just see a big future in the likes of SL.

I had fun driving my Nissan car around, both on their track and out in the world. Love the "Simcrossing" or whatever they call it in their car (SimEdge? or is that my other car?) and it is free. Visited Playboy island since there was that whole "Playboy" is coming in the forums and elsewhere, but didnt' see any presence until I heard the topic move from "coming" to "here." And still hadn't see a presence so searched and found their island. Interesting island, I suppose, but I haven't been back. Wasn't impressed with Mercedes island. Reuters island also visited once. I lived near the Starwood build and kept waiting for the "official" opening. It was supposed to be in June, or something, but never happened I guess, or I missed it. Interesting castle, neat Star Wars walkers nearby.

Haven't been particularly impressed with the real world companies yet. Except for Nissan and their free car.

People in SL like a good freebie.

Do you think they would get more attention if instead of buying a chain of 4 islands and spending hundreds of thousand developing them, they were to offer stuff to people for participateing in events?

Maybe a few $L that would get the newbee and campers attention. Or RL discount coupons for surveys.

I just don't see that there are enough people using SL to make it worth their while spending all that money just for advertising.

Oh the other places had free stuff. It is just that it was obvious that Nissan had someone build a "quality" vehicle for their give-away. I know in-world places hold events to draw people. I recall one live music event at a sim selling homes, another live music event at an art show thingie. Events do draw people. Then the sim lags, no one can move, and whatever you were trying to draw people to gets overlooked.

Ok so they charge a lot per project.

That one company you mentioned only has 17 clients in THREE years.

I wonder how many people the profit is divided among.

IMO seems like a loss for the real world companies, no one seems to pay much attention to their SIMs.

LOL or "Chuck in a Truck" as I have heard it around here....

Thanks Broccoli and every one else for the leads on pricing and producers. I did want to contact one of the aforementioned companies, however i feared that i would be tipping them off to a unigue concept i came up with(asking a price for the build would directly give the idea away, and i can not allow anyone to beat me to the punch).

i have actually done extensive research on what big companies have spent(then why the question?). I've found that the fortune 500 companies spend between 3-5 million USD for their builds, on average. I have even found an article(i think it was on electric sheeps site) where it said they were charging companies $10,000 USD a minute for Machinama Commercials (CBS Two and half men), or 1-1500USD a second, clients choice (the article said that the director of marketing would neither confirm nor deny the pricing, however it seemed the writer knew it to be true). I guess i was hoping that someone who freelanced for one of the big boys would have joined in on our convo and confirmed some of the pricing. Or let their presence be known, i may need a hand full of these free lancers in the not so distant future.

As for the marketing executive from the RL world. Their ideas are too stale for this cutting edge platform. If you gave an executive from the Rl world a product to market and advertise, along the demographic you want to reach, they will mindlessly advertise the product through the same channels they have available(newspapers, radio,t.v, internet, and now social networks), that fit that demographic. When you ask these same executives to enter a new platform that require fresh new ideas to reach an international community that only half way wants you here in the first place, they come up empty.

But when you find that you can't come up with anything unique to consistently attract new potential consumers to builds in SL that cost the marketing execs client millions. Then they use marketing( Swahili for bullshitting) jargon (excuses) to explain their lack of sales or metrics. They say things like we came to the SL platform to build "brand awareness" for our client. Or this is a mere "brand extention" of our company, and we really were'nt concerned about making money(what sane CEO is'nt interested in making money. And when you do spend marketing dollars on behalf of the company you work for or represent, they want to see a ROI , and the shorter the time the better. Very few companies want to sponsor events or spend ad dollars unless there is a possibility of an ROI). I think that if given a chance most execs from the RL could not come up with any bright ideas to apply to SL, except for fresh new excuses. They have lost their "child eye" a long time ago.


Thats why big companies dont always beat the little guy. They rarely are challenged to be creative, and they think that money can resolve any marketing challenge(apparently not, since no large company in SL can claim that they have turned dollar one). I would put my money on anyone in SL beating a major company at marketing on this platform. Simply because most have taken the time to get to know the culture of SL. I have spoken, thanks again everyone.

If people really believe SL is heading up in the cloud in view growth and monies possibities. I say Tke your money and head off to RL. Its better and more safe. If the past 3 weeks is any indication on the future of Sl. I would not bet on teh future hightly.

There's always Non Disclosure Agreements. If your idea is really as revolutionary as you make it sound, then it's possible that you have enough money in the project to enforce an NDA.

Broccoli

All of the VC's and hedge funds that are interested in our business plan already sign a CA(same thing as an NDA). However i have no intention on hiring one of the development teams. I'm more interested in hiring free lancers who have been employed by these compannies. The only thing i want to know about them is their pricing strategy, as i have added this(building corporate presence) as a potential revenue source. My other needs include good in-world marketers, scripters, producers, and camera men.

Then really your best bet is probably to contact some of them. Most have email contact addresses, some have websites, and you can easily tell the difference between the "big companies" and the freelancers. Just because a freelancer has been employed by a big company in the past doesn't automatically make them better, remember

You could always ask them generally if they are interested, without going in to too much specific detail and giving away your secrets. Then shortlist based on those responses those that match what skills you are looking for.

Sounds fascinating, whatever it is you are planning.

Broccoli

Thanks alot Broccoli.