Did Someone get dropped on their head as a child?

http://blog.secondlife.com/2007/05/04/age-and-indentity-verification-in-second-life/

Everyone I know on SL is against this scheme for a variety of reasons. First and foremost:

The sudden cost of "entry", after the $9.95 signup fee was done away with. If you want to verify those in SL, charge a cover charge and card the folks at the door, you don't tell someone something is free, then go charging them real money once they've signed up, just so they can get the entire thing. SL isn't advertised as trialware.

The intrusion into the privacy of the individuals on SL. I read in a different thread: "...a credit card can be cancelled when it is compromised. Passports, Driver Licences, even social insurance numbers cannot be cancelled." - Jig Chippewa said this, he makes a valid point. The last four of one's social, that's not something to hand out over the internet. DL number, that's a no no, too. Passport information? My god...it's lunacy. Nobody should be required to hand this over to any business just so they can do business with them. This is on top of the point that any information that cannot be canceled and changed is something ID thieves prey on. I resent being told I'm required to hand out this information, just to prove I'm over 18.

Ease of application. How is Linden Labs going to insure the PG rated sims remain PG rated? They can't. We go back to the griefer issue this sounds targeted towards. People signing up for free accounts, and then causing all sorts of grief just because they can. They don't verify, they just target the "Safe zone" sims, because those are the sims they have access to. It takes 2 minutes to build a badly designed 3 prim adult toy, maybe 4 if you take the time to adjust it right, maybe 10 if you make it big and detailed and with more prims. How are the lindens going to prevent those from being built in PG sims, and if the landowner is responsible, then what happens to the landowner? Then, again, maybe the "sandbox" sims need be made adult-mature, so griefers can't build there. I could take this in many directions from here, none of them are good, and all of them are bound to happen, griefers, for their blunt methods are some of the more crafty bastards out there, as a group that is. It creates a worse situation through the laws of unintended consequences. All of the scenarios described above force newbies to either surrender vital information or leave SL. I propose that many will leave, since the thing keeping so many of us long time users here is the investment we've made in SL. And on that note:

Why the hell are longtime users being extra charged now? I payed $9.95 for my basic level account, and I gave a credit card, name, address, and verified I was over 18. Why am I now going to be asked to pay more money, to continue using this service? Frankly, I want my $9.95 back if I'm going to be treated like just another free account griefer. What's worse is those who have premium accounts will need to pay as well to prove their worth to Linden Labs. Also, island owners, who pay through the friggin' nose will need to pay extra for this service, it's disgusting.

Legitimizing youths on SL. If kids are getting on SL, then that's the problem of the parents. It's not Linden Lab's problem, and NOR IS IT THE PROBLEM OF THE USERS. It's not my problem if little Timmy subversively logs into an adult only website [http://www.secondlife.com], signs up for an adult only account [Basic free SL account], and logs into an adult only service [Double click SecondLife.exe], saying he's an adult all the time; it's not my fault, nor is it Linden Lab's fault if he does all this and happens to figure out the UI, hits map and TPs his way to an adults only sim [any on SL according to the TOS], and happens to see two ageplaying furries in an ADULTS ONLY situation. Goddamn those ageplaying furries for doing their private acts in such an accessable way. (To note, I've left out the fact that much goes on in skyboxes, well over the easy fly-to areas of the sim.)

If this lunacy continues, I may have no choice to but to seek myself a new online location to engage in enlightened conversation and adult situations...sometimes both at the same time seeing as I tend to hang out at a club and brothel, and many times I hang out at friends places, who have beds by Sexgen. I truly enjoy SL as a place to live a counter-life, a place to expand my social network, and partake in activities I would never in RL (Parachuteless skydiving. It's the *splat*!); but it seems to be moving in a direction I don't consider sustainable.

That's my two bits on the subjects.
Tyla out.

What is with the subject lines of all these threads lately? If it isn't already part of the Community Standards, I think there should be a rule that threads with vague insulting subject lines will be locked.

On the plus side, they did manage to think of a verification scheme where no matter what you do you'll be judged for it .

Any non-verified will be a suspected minor (why wouldn't you just verify if you're an adult?) and any verified will be considered sex-obsessed (why else would you verify? it's only needed for the naughty bits).

(As for loopholes: "Each individual will be able to associate their age and personal information to a limited number of accounts (plural)". That's just asking for a black market where people verify an avatar with someone else's stolen identity and then offer to verify anyone for a fee)

I think this is one of the best moves SL has made and I can't wait for it. They need to tighten the door on SL from the little kiddies. To be honest I think the only people getting ticked off about it and really throwing a fit are the under aged people in here that now know their days are limited.

Spoken like a true minor. Get off the forums, troll. It's been established that if anyone's benefitting from this debacle, it's griefers (read: minors) already on the adult grid.

Absolutely not, the upset ones are the ones who got a scare last fall when LL's database was compromised and who don't want to trust LL's 3rd party site with even more personal info.

I sell adult items.

I'm deathly afraid that this will change SL from a "exciting business opportunity with real potential for success" into "that money pit I keep hoping will turn around tomorrow".

I am also very concerned that all this will guarantee, is that "children who are smart enough to lie", will get in.. and "adults who know to be wary of giving out personal information online" will quickly learn that the "rest" of SL.. is lame... and quit - long before finding out that the "good stuff" exists.

I am also very concerned about what the ruling will be on where "mature content" is decided. A skin shop isn't, a strip show is.. fine I get that, A shoe shop isn't, but a fetish shoe shop is? A belt shop isn't, but a bondage gear shop is? A Medieval Dungeon isn't, but a Victorian Dungeon is? Naked Furries in a dance club isn't.. Naked Furries with nipples in a dance club is? Little girl "potty accident" attachment isn't, genitals that pee is? Talking attachments that say fart jokes and insults isn't.. talking attachments that say "so and so tweaked my nipple" is? Guns, bombs and missles isn't... the list goes on and on.

There's so many hairs to split over "appropriate use" of the mature flag... here's one.

How many items must a shop have that are PG.. before it can overcome one mature item? What about a shop that sells a penis on one side of the room.. and clocks, gadgets, jetpacks, furniture, and even a robot from a disney movie?

honestly the only foolproof way of making sure "minors" don't access adult content is to block off mature sims from them. Seriously, is LL going to visit every single shop, house, location, etc. to decide whether or not it is adult content? How are they going to make this decision? Are they going to leave it up to the shop owners or land owners? Winter I think you have a very real fear because I can truly see unverified's to be unable to access mature sims, which means...I won't be able to go to my own home, because there is no way I'm providing that info to LL or any other company...I won't even put my drivers license # on checks.

Premiums pay 10l

once

thats a texture

Oh Please Voodoo - Kiddies? I think you are being tongue in cheek?

Oh Please Voodoo - you jest surely?

Well, if it is true that Aristotle's Integrity is the 3rd party age-verification outfit in question, then for many businesses in SL the issue will be whether the owner feels the need for insurance against liability for dealing with minors. Integrity rightly ensures this in exchange for verifying age.

I suspect that in the end SL will end up again (dare I say it) much like the Internet. There will be hard-core and bread-and-butter adult sites which will flag themselves "adult" to verify age and avoid liability. (Internet porn sites will increasingly turn to services such as this now that Visa has explicitly declared themselves not to be in the age verification business.) There will be a lot of adult material scattered in PG and mature areas not flagged as "adult;" many of these will fly under the radar screen for a long time, and typically have nothing more to fear than being ordered to remove the adult content when noticed. A small minority will be prosecuted.

Looking at the parent company running the verification is really the only problem I have..

Didn't you know? Voodoo is the only adult here. For the rest we are all minors secretly using our parents creditcards... not only to verify our account. No no, also to pay our monthly teir and buy our loads of L$. Stupid parents never notice a thing....

Voodoo... go home and come back when you really understand why people are so upset about this.

Morwen.

Morwen we have all stolen our parents credits cards! Haha - I enjoyed your comments.

Ok a response to Voodoo,

I'm in my late 30's and I am offened by the fact that they are doing this. As people before and probably after this will also say "this will not work". It is wrong for SL to ask for copies of id that we have all been told to not make out or give out copies of. God think of the chance for identity theft here. Let alone the fact that in no country I can think of is it ok for you to give out copies of your passport at ANY time. They will have your id and most likely your credit card as well. I cant even imagine what just one bad apple at SL could do if it ever happened. Bad enough that they have most of the info to begin with but to also have a copy of your offical picture id. Think of it.

Also try to think about this for a minute. It is NOT SL's responsiblility to monitor minors. It is their parents or their custodians. True that is not how its being treated on the net because there is no real pressure on parents/custodians to take real responsibility for the actions of their kids. Everyone feels free to blame the people who run the sites and work at trying to make everyone but the people really responsible accountable. Easy solution. If you cant control your kids internet use then dont have access in the home. And/or punish the parents/custodians who do not actually give a rat but as to what their kids are doing but stop punishing the people who are not really responsible. Yes society needs to try to protect them but ultimately it is their caregivers who need to step up to the plate.

I'm totally against this. I'm not about to give identifying information to a third party.... I've already had problems this year with attempted identity theft, I don't want any more people to have my info than is absolutely necessary.

And I refuse to pay a fee to be 'verified' when I've already been here, and been a paying member, for almost three years. I provided verifying information when I signed up, they have my credit card details on file for my monthly fees, that should be good enough.

Honestly, it looks like LL is just digging deeper to try and get out of the hole they're already in. There was a storm of protest when age verification was removed, now there'll be a bigger storm of protest over this new system.... all this crap could have been avoided if they had just stayed with the original system, and required credit card verification when signing up.

Actually that is not such a foreign concept to me. Quite normal actually where I live. In some cases even required by law. This is just one more company to provide with a copy of my passport to me.

The "real me" was born on March 12, 1969. Is there some country that would consider that as "being underaged"?

I don't like this system. No need to say why, 'cause many else raised the same issues I have.

Blah.

Yeah right junior where were you when JFK was shot? I was in school.

I would counter the people who are jumping on the band wagon are kids who don't have enough life experince to know a bad thing when they see it.

Rox

Suzy I dont know where you live but I dont want to live there! Passport information with a company?? Bugger me - why not give them your PIN number too?

Wow!
And I thought Big Brother was watching ME!

You'd be wrong.