Hello all! I just signed up and was curious about some issues.
Can any other avatars/personalities in SL ever find out your real life name and/or email address, and/or other details about you in real life?
Also, what implications if at all can your SL actions have in RL? ex. I see escort services being advertised, is that legal to solicit and/or pay for it? Can that have any impact on you in real life or is it completely seperate and cannot be tied into your RL personality?
Thanks!
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Michael Funizza
Registered User
Join date: 30 Nov 2008
Posts: 2
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12-26-2008 13:45
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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12-26-2008 14:01
If another user takes legal actions actions against you LL might be required to divulge your real life identity.
Anything you tell another user in private, in confidence, can be broadcast instantly around the internet. It might be against the rules so far as LL is concerned to reveal such info in SL or in the forums, but that doesn't make it be impossible to do or make it be secret again after it's revealed. Plus there's the whole rest of the internet to reveal things on. The old old SL wiki, the tiki wiki version, had a chart of every wiki contributor's IP address. LL mailing lists have at times revealed users' email addresses. If you want to check the website at work, that can be revealingl. Most likely the so-called escort service ads you saw were for paying people to chat or do animations with you - not real ads for real prostitutes like you might find on the web. So if your real life ID did get connected with using cyber-hookers, you would be unlikely to get taken off to jail by your local police force, but the folks at church might look at you kinda funny. People have reported logging in to the SL credit info pages and seeing other people's credit info. If you are using a name that matches the name you've used at other forums, virtual worlds, games, etc. that can be useful in finding out more about you. Also, if you use the same distinctive signature in this forum and you do at other forums. I think it's very rare for someone's real life id to get found out by another user without it having been deliberately revealed. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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12-26-2008 14:39
SL Escort services fall into three categories, "cyber", "voice", and "webcam". Cyber is essentially computer generated porn images plus live interactive erotic text. Voice is essentially identical to phone sex, and webcam is mostly not performed within SL itself, although SL is often used for payment.
The legality of these services depends on your local laws. In the United States, they are mostly legal, so Linden Labs/Second Life allows them. Certain things like the portrayal of child sex (even if computer generated) are illegal in some countries, and so banned in second life. Webcam per se is not banned, but for example, if a child under 18 was appearing nude in a webcam show, that would be illegal regardless of whether Second Life was involved or not. Soliciting for real life sex for money has occurred at escort places within second life. That is not only illegal for the person soliciting, its illegal for the escort place to host such advertisements, and for second life to host such advertisements. That is because "pandering" (providing prostitutes) is a separate crime in California, and most other places in the USA, including all the places where Linden Labs has servers and company offices. Any individual or business within SL that offers RL sex runs the risk of being swiftly banned from it if Linden Labs finds out about it. (I am not a lawyer, and so rely on this opinion at your own risk) |
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KatyKiwi Song
aka Moonflower
Join date: 3 Jul 2003
Posts: 10
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12-26-2008 14:56
Another problem that can occur with camsex is that your face and any other body parts displayed can be captured in a screen shot and distributed in SL or anywhere else for that matter. There have been pictures distributed in SL by angry exs depicting some guy sitting naked in his desk chair displaying all that can be viewed by the person on the other side of the webcam. I've gotten many randomly passed to me in SL over the years and find them amusing, but I am not so sure the guy who was "caught in the act" was as amused. The risk of a TOS violation is not enough to deter revenge especially since alts are so easy to create.
If someone recognizes your real life face then this could present a problem for you. I also handled a divorce case once that was triggered by a woman scorned online who mailed copies of all the text chats she had with her ex to his home, where his real life wife received and read them. Once you get close to someone online, it is pretty easy to figure out who and where they are in real life. As with anything in life, if you can't afford the risk, don't take the chance! _____________________
~ Gypsy Moon ~
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Zolen Giano
Free the Shmeats!
Join date: 31 Dec 2007
Posts: 146
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12-26-2008 15:31
I's can sees your IP addressy!
A reverse DNS search might tell someone where you work. A whois on the domain name might yeild interesting results if you own the domain. Or if you're at home, your ISP and what city you live in could easily be found by your IP address. (unless your bouncing off a proxy) Oooo...visual tracert + Google Earth would be fun way to messa round with someone's head. Although your IP address isnt actually broadcast, there are various media options that reveal your IP in server logs. (streaming servers, webservers, etc.) If you're connected to my PC in any way, I could also use TCPview to instantly find your IP / DNS name. http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/bb897437.aspx Cool tool. check it out some time. Or, you could simply just sign up for a "survey" and give out all your info in one shot if you like. zg |
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Ren Austinmer
Registered User
Join date: 21 Jun 2006
Posts: 62
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12-26-2008 17:18
A lot of people, myself included, have email accounts for their avatars.
Helps if you want to keep SL related things separate from your official email account (offline IM, notices, etc). |
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Void Singer
Int vSelf = Sing(void);
Join date: 24 Sep 2005
Posts: 6,973
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12-26-2008 18:21
Soliciting for real life sex for money has occurred at escort places within second life. That is not only illegal for the person soliciting, its illegal for the escort place to host such advertisements, and for second life to host such advertisements. unless of course they live somewhere where those services ARE legal, including several places in the US and elswhere in the world... not everyone is hung up on sex. _____________________
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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12-26-2008 21:09
Quote:
unless of course they live somewhere where those services ARE legal, including several places in the US and elswhere in the world... not everyone is hung up on sex. ------------------- Where you live is irrelevant to the legality of advertising such services within second life. Its where the servers which house the ads are located, and the company which owns those servers (Linden Labs) is located. A private communication between a prostitute and a client, in the case where its legal for both of them *might* be OK ------------------ The relevant law in California is this: Penal code Section 266 266......any person who does any of the following is guilty of pandering, a felony, and shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for three, four, or six years: .....(6) Receives or gives, or agrees to receive or give, any money or thing of value for procuring, or attempting to procure, another person for the purpose of prostitution, ------------------ I don't see any exception for where the person lives. The way I read it, if Linden Labs, or a club owner, receives money (land tier, or ad rental respectively) for attempting to procure a prostitute, they are in trouble. |
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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12-26-2008 21:31
If you want to do a business such as design entire sims for other people, you might need to give them your real world info.
If you want to rent land from private estate owners, I think you might need to give them Paypal information. If you create a logo in SL that you want to trademark, your real name is likely to become public. If you file a lawsuit against Linden Lab, your real life info will get known. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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12-27-2008 06:29
Only once did I start telling someone about my RL details. They were getting quite serious alarmingly quickly and pumping me for info. I realised that it wouldn't take much more for them to track me down and turn up on my doorstep. I also realised that partially revealing your RL identity could lead to a stalker following a false lead in RL and tracking down another person who's probably not even heard of Second Life!
So now I don't say anything except which country I'm from (Britain) or when pushed, which region! _____________________
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SuezanneC Baskerville
Forums Rock!
Join date: 22 Dec 2003
Posts: 14,229
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12-27-2008 06:42
If you have a severe drinking problem or other substance abuse problem, you may have already revealed your real life id and have no recollection of it, or a half memory, that you aren't sure of, and don't want to ask about.
It's time for some coffee or going back to sleep. _____________________
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So long to these forums, the vBulletin forums that used to be at forums.secondlife.com. I will miss them. I can be found on the web by searching for "SuezanneC Baskerville", or go to http://www.google.com/profiles/suezanne - http://lindenlab.tribe.net/ created on 11/19/03. Members: Ben, Catherine, Colin, Cory, Dan, Doug, Jim, Philip, Phoenix, Richard, Robin, and Ryan - |
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DanielRavenNest Noe
Registered User
Join date: 26 Oct 2006
Posts: 1,076
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12-27-2008 06:46
According to this web page:
http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2996/Mental-Health-Illness-HOW-MANY-PEOPLE-ARE-MENTALLY-ILL.html Approximately one in sixteen Americans "had a "serious" disorder that significantly disrupted their ability to function day to day" Given those odds, I would not hand out real life personal info unless its required for business reasons. Get a free email account from gmail, hotmail, or yahoo thats different than your regular email for all your SL communications if you feel like handing out an address outside the game. That statistic explains a lot about what happens *within* the game. There's just a lot of crazy people out there, and more or less the same proportion get online to play here. |
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Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
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12-27-2008 07:12
Hello all! I just signed up and was curious about some issues. Can any other avatars/personalities in SL ever find out your real life name and/or email address, and/or other details about you in real life? Also, what implications if at all can your SL actions have in RL? ex. I see escort services being advertised, is that legal to solicit and/or pay for it? Can that have any impact on you in real life or is it completely seperate and cannot be tied into your RL personality? Thanks! You have two questions going here: Can someone/anyone find out your rl name and email address: I'd think so. You second question seems to be leaning towards involvement with escorts and/or something that is illegal in rl such as escorting and what implications does your avatar engaging in activities which are illegal in rl affect how others would perceive you in rl and/or your rl personality? I kind of think that's what you are saying. I'd prefer to use a simple example. If your avatar is smoking marijuana, it's not illegal. I also think you might be asking is SL somewhat like My Space where real life people have been arrested for soliciting real life minors into real life sex with them? I'd say that there is some possibility that SL can be a little like My Space. There are sexual predators everywhere, but I'd think that's a very minute part of SL's population. I'd also think if the police were involved in SL, they'd be looking for the kiddie porners who are trying to find someone underage and get that underage person to meet them in REAL LIFE by offering them great sums of real money as an example. But, I'd also think there would be more kiddie porners on the teen grid posing as teens when they're really adults. And I don't think child predators are interested in avatar sex but rather getting that under age person to meet them in real life. Also, I'd like to say that I am deducing here as I don't know how hard it is for an adult to get on the teen grid nor do I know all of what undercover cops may be doing in total in regards to SL but I'm sure "they're here". _____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
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Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
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12-27-2008 07:52
According to this web page: http://www.libraryindex.com/pages/2996/Mental-Health-Illness-HOW-MANY-PEOPLE-ARE-MENTALLY-ILL.html Approximately one in sixteen Americans "had a "serious" disorder that significantly disrupted their ability to function day to day" There are many people with very serious disorders who ARE functioning in what appears to be a perfectly normal day to day routine AND/OR have all the outter appearances of being "normal" if not completely charming to all they meet. I'd say the above regarding 1 in 16 who have a disorder that disrupts a normal functioning day to day routine can include those not only with schizophrenia for example but those with autism, mental retardation and veterans with post traumatic stress disorder. I hear the statics on vets is that 1 in 3 will come back from combat with a mental disorder, most likely post traumatic stress disorder. _____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
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Conifer Dada
Hiya m'dooks!
Join date: 6 Oct 2006
Posts: 3,716
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12-27-2008 07:57
I'd prefer to use a simple example. If your avatar is smoking marijuana, it's not illegal. _____________________
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Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
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12-27-2008 08:11
But it could be, though. If it was illegal in some country to portray the smoking of marijuana, or to promote smoking it, you could fall foul of the law there. Well if that were true, I'd think a lot of "art" would be censored for an example and also actors and actresses along with songwriters and/or all writers would be guilty too? So let's just say LL puts a disclaimer in their TOS that SL is an art medium and all depictions of things illegal, just as in a movie, are done in play acting way and if you agree to engage in said illegalities, other than soliciting a minor off of SL and into your rl, are considered as free speech or expression within a 3D art medium environment. *Check out the LL/SL wiki on how to keep your kids off SL and safe on the internet altogether. Or something like that...? _____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
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Marybeth Cooperstone
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 138
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12-27-2008 10:35
First, let me say that I am a RL attorney, hence the following standard disclaimer: since my comments may well go beyond my professional experience this does not constitute legal advice and no attorney-client relationship exists. In other words, don’t assume I know what I am talking about. End of disclaimer.
Things done in SL can become RL crimes, as has been discussed. That is particularly the case if they involve children, even artificial “virtual” children.. Also, theft or fraud involving $L can be real crimes because of the fact that $L are bought with real money and therefore have real value. Most likely the values involved would be too small to be of interest to law enforcement. But the cumulative amount matters so a scheme to defraud a large number of people could rise to the level of being worthy of prosecution. Also, in matters of divorce, legal behavior can be brought into a court and can affect outcomes such as custody (fitness to be a parent) and alimony. If, in a law suit or criminal investigation Linden Labs is served with a subpoena for information that may reveal your identity, they may well turn over the information rather than go to the expense of fighting it. What may be more important for most people: no one can guarantee that someone cannot, possibly through illegal means, track down your real identity. For most people this is not a real worry – who would go to the trouble? However, for people in a “public life” (I am somewhat in that category) there may be reason for someone to try to find out about online activities. So, if you are someone whose name may be in the news, before you do anything in SL, think about how you would feel if it were on the front page of the newspaper some morning. I think I pointed out in an earlier thread that there once a politician running for office who, in his private on-line life, thought he was completely anonymous, using an assumed name. He was engaging in some sort of virtual bestiality on the internet, and made statements that were insulting both to farm animals and to women. His opponent got information linking the real person to his on-line activity. Fortunately the opponent was so far ahead she or he did not need to use the information. But, had the race been close, the local TV news would have had a very interesting story. So, be careful, particularly if your interest involves children or if you may, in the future, be involved in a political campaign or in a divorce. And never assume that you are anonymous if there could be somebody who has a real interest in making your activities public. Mary |
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Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
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12-27-2008 14:37
First, let me say that I am a RL attorney, hence the following standard disclaimer: since my comments may well go beyond my professional experience this does not constitute legal advice and no attorney-client relationship exists. In other words, don’t assume I know what I am talking about. End of disclaimer. Things done in SL can become RL crimes, as has been discussed. That is particularly the case if they involve children, even artificial “virtual” children.. Also, theft or fraud involving $L can be real crimes because of the fact that $L are bought with real money and therefore have real value. Most likely the values involved would be too small to be of interest to law enforcement. But the cumulative amount matters so a scheme to defraud a large number of people could rise to the level of being worthy of prosecution. Also, in matters of divorce, legal behavior can be brought into a court and can affect outcomes such as custody (fitness to be a parent) and alimony. If, in a law suit or criminal investigation Linden Labs is served with a subpoena for information that may reveal your identity, they may well turn over the information rather than go to the expense of fighting it. What may be more important for most people: no one can guarantee that someone cannot, possibly through illegal means, track down your real identity. For most people this is not a real worry – who would go to the trouble? However, for people in a “public life” (I am somewhat in that category) there may be reason for someone to try to find out about online activities. So, if you are someone whose name may be in the news, before you do anything in SL, think about how you would feel if it were on the front page of the newspaper some morning. I think I pointed out in an earlier thread that there once a politician running for office who, in his private on-line life, thought he was completely anonymous, using an assumed name. He was engaging in some sort of virtual bestiality on the internet, and made statements that were insulting both to farm animals and to women. His opponent got information linking the real person to his on-line activity. Fortunately the opponent was so far ahead she or he did not need to use the information. But, had the race been close, the local TV news would have had a very interesting story. So, be careful, particularly if your interest involves children or if you may, in the future, be involved in a political campaign or in a divorce. And never assume that you are anonymous if there could be somebody who has a real interest in making your activities public. Mary Mary, what about those that publish their photo on the internet and use their real name or just a first name. Same also if they give out their real life photo and/or name on SL. Is what they freely published by them on the internet fair game to use in a lawsuit investigation? _____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
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LittleToe Bartlett
Registered User
Join date: 3 Oct 2006
Posts: 68
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12-27-2008 14:57
are virtual goods taxable?
everyone seems worried about sex-starved maniacs knocking at the door- what about the IRS? how much activity would it take to send up a red flag? |
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Avawyn Muircastle
Registered User
Join date: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 528
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12-27-2008 15:13
are virtual goods taxable? everyone seems worried about sex-starved maniacs knocking at the door- what about the IRS? how much activity would it take to send up a red flag? LittleToe, are you asking in regards to those that make a real income from Second Life? That's an interesting question. Ebay has had the same problems and/or questions. Ebay has worked for many sellers as a way to buy or exchange items for what they want, so some sellers may "spend" all their Ebay seller income on Ebay. It seems some SL life creators or business people do the same thing such as using what they make on SL to purchase items on SL or it's inworld community, such as a donation to someone, etc. I think Ebay might have set a cap that if you make over $5,000 profit a year... it might be considered taxable. Actually, I can't remember nor do I profess to know how internet generated business' where trading back and forth is involved is handled by the IRS nor what the cap of profit is for reporting to the IRS. I'd say this is a completely different thread altogether and I'd like to learn about this issue of "income" if you'd like to start a thread. _____________________
Won Best in Ice Cream
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Ayesha Lytton
Registered User
Join date: 30 May 2007
Posts: 148
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12-27-2008 15:38
Speaking as someone who is currently being threatened and harassed by a former tenant - it's pretty easy for people to find out your info IF you give them anything they can tie to you via Google, such as an e-mail address. In my case, the creep knew my name and used that to get my address. He then posted it with satellite photos showing my street and my house on another SL forum. That said, I've been online for 13 years, and no more careful with my info than I am now, and nothing like this has happened before. Most human beings are decent, and respect others even when there is a disagreement or a friendship or relationship ends. Unfortunately though, it only takes one bad apple and you've got problems.
My advice is, if you don't trust people, and open your heart to others, you'll go through life a sad and lonely person. However, you must also keep in mind that there are people in the world who disturbed. The internet, and SL, attracts a certain number of people who enjoy hurting others from the perceived safety and anonymity of their home or work. We've all had moments when we've said and done things we'd never do in RL, or been rude to people because we can. For most, that's as far as it goes - so most likely, you'll be safe. But do keep in mind that there's always a chance that you'll upset the wrong person, or something you'll do will come back to haunt you. IMO, if what you're considering doing could hurt your family or your RL relationships, don't do it. _____________________
Solace Beach Rentals: Beautiful Land for All Budgets!
http://slurl.com/secondlife/Solace%20Beach/193/48/23 |
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Charlotte Bartlett
Registered User
Join date: 21 Sep 2006
Posts: 97
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12-27-2008 17:32
If another user takes legal actions actions against you LL might be required to divulge your real life identity. Anything you tell another user in private, in confidence, can be broadcast instantly around the internet. It might be against the rules so far as LL is concerned to reveal such info in SL or in the forums, but that doesn't make it be impossible to do or make it be secret again after it's revealed. Plus there's the whole rest of the internet to reveal things on. The old old SL wiki, the tiki wiki version, had a chart of every wiki contributor's IP address. LL mailing lists have at times revealed users' email addresses. If you want to check the website at work, that can be revealingl. Most likely the so-called escort service ads you saw were for paying people to chat or do animations with you - not real ads for real prostitutes like you might find on the web. So if your real life ID did get connected with using cyber-hookers, you would be unlikely to get taken off to jail by your local police force, but the folks at church might look at you kinda funny. People have reported logging in to the SL credit info pages and seeing other people's credit info. If you are using a name that matches the name you've used at other forums, virtual worlds, games, etc. that can be useful in finding out more about you. Also, if you use the same distinctive signature in this forum and you do at other forums. I think it's very rare for someone's real life id to get found out by another user without it having been deliberately revealed. What this person said  Plus in my case Linden Lab broadcast my RL data including home address in error on a mailing list lol...luckily no harm done based on the distribution list.My advice is, nothing is anonymous on the internet. |
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Marybeth Cooperstone
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 138
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12-27-2008 17:44
Mary, what about those that publish their photo on the internet and use their real name or just a first name. Same also if they give out their real life photo and/or name on SL. Is what they freely published by them on the internet fair game to use in a lawsuit investigation? If you are sued or if you are in a messy divorce, the first thing your attorney will tell you is to keep your mouth shut. If you use your real name and likeness on SL, or your real name on this or any other forum things you say can be used against you. For example, if you are involved in a divorce and you talk on SL or on this or another forum about your infidelity, and the other side finds out, you can expect that it will be used. And also remember that even if something cannot be admitted as evidence in court in can still be on the TV news. I can't, of course, use my real last name on SL because the system requires that I choose from their list. I do combine my first and my maiden middle name (no last names were available with Mary). My avatar looks like me. I assume that my actions and words in SL are public and will be in the news if they are criminal or just plain juicy enough for the news. My use of a similar name and likeness on SL, and my real name on other (usually political or professional) forums is to show that I have nothing to hide. There is no "reasonable expectation of privacy" in SL, and even that doesn't matter to the press, who can use whatever they get. Mary |
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Kidd Krasner
Registered User
Join date: 1 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,938
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12-27-2008 20:35
are virtual goods taxable? ... what about the IRS? how much activity would it take to send up a red flag? If you're asking whether virtual goods are subject to sales tax or similar, that would depend on jurisdiction; it's not an IRS issue. LL collects VAT on sims leased by European users, but they're perceived as a service, while I think virtual objects are more likely to be perceived as licenses, i.e. intangible property. As for the IRS, in the US, all income is taxable unless specifically excluded by law. That includes barter income. I don't think the question is how much would get their attention, but rather how would the IRS find out in the first place. I've never heard of anyone getting a 1099 from LL, but that doesn't mean it won't happen in the future. And while the IRS cares a lot about the underground economy, I don't know how they detect people who have unreported income in general. (There are specific industries, such as restaurants, where they have processes in place.) And of course, you're legally obligated to report all income, whether or not the IRS knows about it. |
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Marybeth Cooperstone
Registered User
Join date: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 138
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12-28-2008 05:29
are virtual goods taxable? everyone seems worried about sex-starved maniacs knocking at the door- what about the IRS? how much activity would it take to send up a red flag? I don’t know much about income tax. I work with an attorney colleague of mine who is a tax specialist and a CPA. The statements below, of course, apply only to the US. I do have some RL income from internet activities that include some specialized software and publications. Not enough to live on but enough to cover my internet access expense and buy a new computer every year or so. I report income from internet activities, and deduct from that all expenses directly related to the income-but not expenses that are also related to non-business related internet use (SL, etc,). Most services that produce income require that I give them my SS number so they can report the income to the IRS on a 1099. I notice that LL did not ask for my SS number. In general, if you do convert $L to dollars and have a net profit, it should be reported to the IRS. In theory, if you earn $L and then spend them in-world, it would be taxable if you spend them on things not related to the income. For example, if you earn $L by building houses or furniture but spend them on fancy clothes, that would be taxable (at the equivalent in dollars). However, the amounts are likely to be very minimal, and the IRS probably will not get into whether a $L expense is related to the income producing activity. A tax advisor (or a good tax book) can advise you on the minimum amounts that must be reported. I don’t know if anyone really earns enough net income in SL for the IRS to care. But, if you do convert $L to $, then you may owe some tax. Bottom line, ask a professional tax adviser. |