Do people care about Content Creator rights?

Correct.

Let's try another example. Suppose that you catch someone who has just copied a texture of yours. They made the copy 2 seconds ago. They have yet to sell it. They have yet to give it to anyone. They have yet to do _anything_ which could affect your earnings. All they have done is make a copy. They are guilty of copyright infringement.

But are they guilty of theft? What have they taken away from you? They haven't taken your earnings, or your product's value.. not yet.

You should, since it is in those mumbo-jumbo passages of "a Copyright Law document" which gives you the rights you so ardently seeking "commitments for stricter enforcement" over. If you are going to take advantage of them, you better learn what they are and what they mean, otherwise, no one is going to take you seriously.



You are showing your ignorance there. "Homicide" is literally "the killing of another human being". It is not illegal to commit homicide. It IS illegal to commit murder. Why? Because there are justified reasons for committing homicide. Defending oneself or one's family chief among them. Murder, on the other hand, is a specific class of homicide, where there is malice and/or premeditation in the act. So, no, a person who commits homicide is not necessarily a murderer. That's why there is some serious debate among religious scholars about what one of the Ten Commandments means: "Thou shalt not kill". The original word used actually means "murder". Killing isn't necessarily evil or a sin. Murdering is. Thus, there is a BIG ideological difference between the two.

Same basic principle applies to "infringement" vs "theft".



Incorrect. Copyright Law specifically defines the act of infringement as a wholly separate class of offense. Does it specifically say that "infringement is not theft", no, but it has no more need to than it does to specifically say that it is not fraud, or murder, or rape, or any other of the classes of offenses in the rest of the law.



Yep, the operative word being "taking", which means "to remove from the possession of another". It doesn't apply to intangible property because there is no deprivation of the original owner of the "property" in question.

*shrug*



Ahh... so now, they aren't just "suicide bombers", they are attacking innocent civilians, too. Yeah, I suppose changing your argument in mid-stream to make you look right seems to be a valid tactic to you, but it just shows more ignorance to the rest of us.

Not all suicide bombers are terrorists; some are also freedom fighters.



Well, if being a copyright infringer is so honorable, why are we bothering to discuss this? Oh, yeah, I forgot, you are just making stupid hyperbolic nonsense as a play for sympathy instead of debating the issue. Appeals to emotion are pretty vacuous ways to debate.



Makes perfect sense to me. Why are you having such a problem with it?



*yawn* You've mounted such a monumental counter to my points. Oh, what ever shall I say in response? Zzzzzz....



Congratulations! You just won the non-sequitur award of the week!



Not in SL, no. I have been ripped off in REAL life plenty. My doubts come from the fact that there is NO one here in authority to establish the validity of the assertion. That is all that means. If you HAVE that information, PLEASE DO share it with us all. I am not saying it doesn't exist, I am saying in absence of actual data, one assertion is no more valid than its counter.



Because you know it all already? Beats me...



Like I said, I HAVE very much experienced infringement in RL, and I have had to take legal action against infringers who have illegally copied my software. It's never gone to court, because simply serving notice has compelled an amicable resolution every time.

In that case, I really hope they do, because at that point, they can go to JAIL. Perjury is a CRIME. They can go ahead and file their counterclaim, and I will be happy to serve them with suit. If they continue infringing, then more's the better for me, because that is just that much more I can claim in damages. That's the way it works.



God forbid you actually discuss anything. But, then again, I can see where this is leading. You're not interested in discussing, just beating people up until they "see the light". Not gonna happen, friend.



*shrug* If you say so. Wake me up when you come up with something other than hyperbole and ad hominem.



Effectively, yes, some people here ARE.



Fine. Define those "stricter enforcement measures". If they are feasible and effective (on the face of them), I am more than happy to support asking for a "commitment" from LL for them. Failing that, I will send the steak back to the kitchen until it is "done".



You?



Maybe because you like to hear yourself talk? Otherwise, no clue.



Here's the weekly Unnecessary Moronic Ad Hominem award. Wow, two logical fallacy awards in one week! You go, girl!

I find myself wanting to say something...but when I look back, I find I have already said it. So I will keep silent until I have something worth while to say, rather than contribute to the free for all.

I KNOW I am not a lawyer, nor do I even pretend to be...I wonder how many of you in this 'debate' really ARE lawyers? It would be interesting to see...

No, I am not better than any of you, just tired. And I really don't feel like having every word I say dissected and critiqued and cross examined. Have a good day...

Again ...

theft n. the "GENERIC TERM" for "ALL CRIMES" in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use.

The crime of theft was complete once this someone intentionally and fraudulently took my property without my permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to their use.

It's really quite simple if you stop reading into it.

You tell me. I have been saying the same thing since I started in this thread. Why has it been so hard for you?



Do or do not. There is no try.



I've never said everything is impossible. I said specific things people are asking for are impossible AT PRESENT, because they ARE.

NO ONE has EVER told you to give up. That's your own defeatism speaking, and has nothing to do with anything anyone has said.

I KEEP ASKING for these solutions. I'll ask again and again, I am sure.

Stop with the stupid ad hominem and hyperbole, and GET WITH IT! Don't keep pointing fingers at everyone else and blaming them for your inadequacies. DO IT! Stop wasting time assigning blame and arguing irrelevancies.

Why is that so hard for you to do? Hmmm? Or is that all you are capable of?

..and they simply use software which doesn't respect that identifier, or they change it.



That deterrent already exists. If you are caught using a tool to infringe copyright, they have said it is a ToS violation and you can lose your account over it. Why do people keep ignoring what they say?

It's like "we want a commitment to stricter enforcement!", but when they make that commitment and TELL EVERYONE they have, everybody accuses them of not making the commitment. It's insane.



The day you can come up with a system of perfect online identification, you will be rich beyond your wildest dreams. I promise! I'll even market it for you for 10% of the proceeds.

If such a system were imposed on us I would cease creating for SL the same day. Reproduction cost and scarcity are beside the point. Should the government regulate how much profit margin something can have? Artists shouldn't give away their rights simply because technology makes ignoring them depressingly easy. Anyone who feels that something is being over charged for because the production cost is low, or that it doesn't provide sufficient freedom of use, is free not to buy it. They are not free to just take it. That mentality should never be caved in to. It deserves no concessions.

Agreed. The poll is meaningless because it ties together tangential issues which cannot be separately supported, so you get a mish-mash of support and non-support for most of the options. Maybe I will do a better poll later, after this thread dies off, so we can keep the topic fresh.

And sir please be respectful of the peolpe who post on here even if you don't agree with them.

It's only simple in the minds of people who a) don't understand, and b) don't want to understand. Even Thomas Jefferson himself had trouble with it, and this same debate has raged since before his day. That's why, in some circles, it is called the "Jefferson Debate".

I think Russell McOrmond sums it up pretty eloquently:

http://www.mp3newswire.net/stories/5002/theft.html

When the same respect is afforded to me, I do.

When it is not, I don't.

It is still word play and semantics. My god. Get over it!



Oh so now you are going to debate the semantics between the words homicide and murder? It was just an example. Murder, homicide, someone was killed, call it what you want. What is it with you?



More semantics?



Again ...

theft n. the "GENERIC TERM" for "ALL CRIMES" in which a person intentionally and fraudulently takes property of another without permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to the taker's use.

The crime of theft was complete once this someone intentionally and fraudulently took my property without my permission or consent and with the intent to convert it to their use.



And yet more semantics.



Finally, something we can both agree on.



This is a start.

It's a lot better than the crying mantra of "give up already, there is nothing we can do to stop it" we've been hearing to this point.

Thank you Graphicguru.

It's nice to see that some people still have a sense of decency and manners.

IMO You are getting to hung in legal details that obfustacates the issue. Its really pretty simple to a content creator who finds their item being given away free or being sold by someone else, in the game environment or on SLEX and files a complaint with LL, who essentially shrugs it off and says "file a DMCA."

Naturally the excuse that it is "impossible" to prevent doesn't fly. Now does SL want people to think they are that flakey and make Content Creators give up on SL, or would LL want to implement new ways to protect Content Creators?

When people started getting viruses on their computer, did the computer industry, shrug it off and say, there is nothing we can do? Of course not.

In the case of Sl, it is LL that sold their product, advertising that Content Creators "own" their creations. Clearly it is their responsibility to make good on their advertising. Start with all the 100% copies. Of couse there is a fine line people may claim concerning similar products and that has been argued in real world, where variopus guidelines have been established.--but at least start by preventing copybots and all items that are the exact copies being given away of sold and ban people doing it.

Oh, so now the tactic is to call everything "semantics" instead of "excuses". Yes, I see how everything is different now!



Oh, I dunno, I like to debate using real words and definitions, instead of what ever I can poop out and throw at other people that makes me feel good and righteous.



Go ahead and post it again and again. It doesn't change the FACT that INFRINGEMENT is NOT THEFT. It's the law, hun. Argue with the lawmakers to change Title 17 to make it say Theft instead, and I will agree with you. Until then, I will call it what it is, and you can call it whatever you feel like which suits your own agenda.



They never "took" it because you were never deprived of it, thus it is not "theft".

I can repeat it as many times as you like, too.



Been there since the beginning. Starting at the beginning is always a good thing.



QUOTE me where *I* said any such damn thing. You can't, because I didn't.

Stop putting your words in my maw, otherwise, you're simply debating yourself, which is.. weird.

But the thing you are missing, "IP" isn't really property. Once you place your "IP" in the open, you are giving your consent for others to own it. Otherwise, how do you take it from their minds? You can't.

You're strange.

Poking my nose back into this thread and seeing a long tortuous trail that seems to have advanced imperceptibly up the hill. For all the hairpin turns, I'm not seeing what's actually being proposed here, or at least not anything that's practicable in the details. But even at the highest level, I'm unclear what Linden support is being advocated. Do content creators want a path of *enforcement* distinct from DMCA? Do they need help with *detection* of copied content?

And are those particular content creators for whom this is an issue prepared to pay a substantial RL license-protection fee to LL to gain these protections, whatever they are to be--or is this another plea to spend our tier fees on something other than improving platform stability?

If someone takes your photograph, they have committed theft of your soul.

I'm sure we can all agree on that fact.


If they then sell your soul to the devil, they have made financial gain from your soul, depriving you of the profit you would have made if you had sold it yourself.

Since they now have the profit you would have had, they have effectively taken that profit from you.

So they really didn't steal your soul, they stole the value which is inherent in the soul.

*Darien hugs her soul tightly*

Thank you!

That's the nicest thing anyone has said to me all day.

Paris Hilton has proved that.

Since all the other intelligent peoples left the thread, i'm leaving too.

Now that the Paris Hilton fan has left the thread, I'm leaving too!

Don't be so hasty to leave...there are things happening behind the scenes ATM so hang loose... I almost left, but there is a new development.

Actually if you read a little between my sarcastic tone, you would find there is a very intelligent point there. But it does take some thought on the part of the reader.