Copyright abuse? Right or Wrong?

Kinda felt some one would get angry about this soner or later. This is about the Wall paper Wall I put up where people can pick and share textures for free. I do understand this person is upset, but what to do now?

Here's the IM I got logging on today:

---

[12:43] (IdentityProtected): (Saved Wed Jan 24 12:20:00 2007) hi

[12:43] (IdentityProtected): (Saved Wed Jan 24 12:20:52 2007) guess what. your giving my textures away for free.. guess what. i,ll be sending linden labs a take down with suspension. guess what. you got 12 hours to remove all textures by (AnotherIdentityProtected).

[12:43] (IdentityProtected): (Saved Wed Jan 24 12:21:04 2007) THEY ARE NOT TO BE GIVEN AWAY>

[12:43] (IdentityProtected): (Saved Wed Jan 24 12:21:27 2007) every texture is being checked for saleable textures and all owners will be told

[12:53] Woopsy Dazy: I'm only sharing textures with full copy modify rights. If you feel your copyright being abused you in any way you could have asked me do something about it. I'll close the wall down and let Linden decide on this matter. Next time I'd appreciate a dialog instead of threats. This is a free service, I dont
gain anything from it.

[13:16] Woopsy Dazy: The parcel has been blocked. Please specify a texture name that you feel is copyrighted (and category) so I can take action. Need a sample to start with to see if I can prevent this from happening again. If these textures has a price included then I have failed to prevent them for being re-shared. A texture name and category would speed up this process, ty!

---

So well. Wall is closed for now. Better safe than sorry. Impossible for me to search thru 2000 textures to find correct creator. Maybe I failed somewhere, maybe I AM violating copyright rulez. Or am I? Please feel free to speach. This is a border zone service for sure. I'm aware of that.

- If it possible that textures has a set price on itself and I've shared it, then I've made a fatal misstake which I'm very sorry for. Can I do anything codewize to prevent it form happening again? hints needed.

- Textures added to wall has been added by people I don't know. It's still my responsibility I suppose, but if textures are copy and transfer enabled? Doesn't that mean they are free to copy and distribute?

Hit me! I'm hear to learn.

Actually no it doesnt. Textures are sometimes sold with full perms to enable builders to use them in their projects, which they'll put up for sale. The textures are sold with the understanding that they are NOT to be resold or given away as is, only used in a project that may then be sold.

Hi!

Actually, United States law covers the issue, insofar as the Company is on US soil and has to follow the laws of its country.

If someone else creates an image (regardless of the medium) then yes, it is theirs and they have certain rights.

For example, say I paint a painting. Perhaps I'm a popular artist that sells prints on the web. Someone comes to my website, uploads all my paintings to the grid, and sells them for $L 50.

Well, that's wrong and I could issue a DMCA claim against the person who took the images without permission.

There is such a thing as 'fair use' - such as using an image for news reporting purposes and some other basic things, but fair use never covers selling or giving away someone else's work.



So yes, regardless of the permissions settings on the grid, they are all superceded by the rights of the creator and United States law.

That said, a little politeness can, and does go a long way.

Good luck, and here is one example library of public domain imagery:

(announcement stating it's public domain: http://www.blendernation.com/2006/05/17/blender-texture-disc-now-public-domain/ )

Images:

http://tellim.com/texture_cd/html/menu1.html

Please define "the understanding". I don't wanna sound dry but that's not a valid copyright term I think. You have the option to set items you sell to non-copy, non-modify a.s.o. If you fail to do so. With whom do I check if the object or texture is free to distribute? How do I get someones understanding second hand?

Please don't be offended, I'm really interested in what's legaly right or wrong here.

Not sure exactly what you're talking about here, but it sounds like you are expecting "for sale" items to be flagged that way in the item's properties. Maybe this is just me, but nothing I sell has the price marked in the item itself.


The permissions system in SL doesn't nullify copyrights, it's just there to supplement copyright. Just because someone fails to set the permissions in a way that safeguards their copyright doesn't mean they are declaring the texture to be public domain.

In short, there is a very real possibility that copyright infringement is going on. The real issue here is whether or not you are liable. You didn't put the textures up for distributing, but you are facillitating it. It's sort of like the whole napster thing; are you liable for enabling copyright infringement? Regardless, it is certainly the case that you have to shut down the texture swap once alerted to copyright infringements going on. It's just like with a website or even LL; once the DMCA is filed saying there is a copyright violation on their servers, they gotta shut it down right away to protect themself from liability.

Oh, and as for your questions about who to check, that would be the copyright holder. In this case, he contacted you so now you know.

It was this quote that made me unsure if some textures that people added to the wall had price already set or something, like u can do with objects.

[12:43] (IdentityProtected): (Saved Wed Jan 24 12:21:27 2007) every texture is being checked for saleable textures and all owners will be told

But maybe he/she ment if they are available for sale in world.

Unless you created these textures yourself or know for certain that they can be freely distibuted like this, you should take them down. Not knowing the source, or the copyright of any item, does not make it okay to distrubute. When in doubt, error on the side of protecting the IP rights of your fellow residents.

Great post Desmond, ty!

So basically I have to close this service down, unless I search approval for each and every texture added to the wall? Regardless who adds them or where they got it from? Correct?

And I assume US law applies even if you're not American because this game is hosted in USA. Not seeking worm-holes to bypass anyones copyright. Just curious.

There's a big difference between legal and wrong. Texture creators, due to the way textures* need to be used, are at the mercy of their customers. Those customers need to have an understanding of what is involved and also care enough and be ethical enough to protect the texture creator's artwork.

We need to treat each other with respect and kindness.

*The same holds true for a few other things in SL.

I think this is a terrible shame. It was a wonderful idea and an inspired project, and it makes me sad that conditions mean it isn't possible. One alternative might be to ask for donations to you *only* from the creator, wishing the textures to be distributed, but that kinda destroys the 'give and take' aspect which was so charming - it'd also put a big workload on yourself. And there's no guard against third parties claiming they made a texture that they didn't.

This does make me pretty sad, but the arguments are valid ones and I don't see a solution. All I can say is thank you for coming up with such a thoughtful and fun idea, and I hope this setback just encourages you to come up with something even better

If you are giving away "free textures" which you obtained from a source that claimed that they were free textures, I don't think that is either morally or legally actionable; if someone IMs and claims to be the author and the texture has been distributed against their wishes (and you believe them) I think it's right to take that one down, and inform your source for the texture that they shouldn't distribute it either.

Selling or giving away a full perms texture which is nevertheless still under copyright is not legal under general international copyright law. It's also considered a bit of a bastard thing to do. But if you got a texture bundle from a freebie source then you can reasonably say that you thought those textures were free for distribution.

Personally I just direct people to the original source areas for free textures rather than hosting them myself, unless they want a specific one, in which case I will pass it to them directly. This saves a lot of bother.

But the problem with this is that it puts folks like Whoopsy in a bad position.

I was also working recently on a collaborative texture organiser (the idea being that lots of people buy texture organisers, but then basically sort their textures in similar ways, so a collaborative one would combine the organisational information from everyone using a given texture, flickR style). I was initially testing it with freebies, which the organiser actually distributes, and then hoped to contact some texture artists to ask how they'd like it to be secured for their paid-for textures (which it wouldn't distribute, but would use their UUID or a one-way hash of the UUID to match for the purpose of sharing organisation info).

But now according to this, anyone can contact me saying that one of the freebie textures is actually theirs - without showing me any evidence - and have the service shut down. And even if I got the freebie in good faith from the Harbinger organisers, or Yadni's, or the Linden Bazaar, or even Whoopsy's wall, that doesn't matter. If that's true, I can't really proceed - or, at least, can't include freebies in the indices, which would basically wreck the product, since many people will want to use them.

Doesn't copyright law also specify that there is some onus on the copyright holder to ensure their work isn't distributed illegally? Or doesn't the law in general say that you can't sue some people who're offending against you, but not others?

Ty everyone for answers. I now realize I have created something, all though with good intentions, that is, or could violate someones copyright. Please be assured it wasn't my intentions.

Wall will be shut down. Sad, it was a great idea.

But please continue posting. This is a good example and an important matter. Would be great to do a "sticky" about copyright that cover these things. (not meaning this thread).

Oh wait. The Wall can stay alive if I get approvement from people willing to share. But how do I legally proove that they said "Yes" in chat? Do I have to send a contract by post that they sign? Gah, screw this!


[EDIT]
I'm changing "screw this" to "IM me" if you still want to let me share your textures with others. In my beleive, an IM is legaly valid. So please IM me and we'll get this wall running again. Legaly. And without offending or violating anyones copyright. I don't wanna do that! Fair and Share, for real this time!

An IM should be sufficient. If you want to be thorough about it, have them create a no mod notecard stating their permission and give it to you.

You can file a counter-notice to have them put back up, I believe. After that, if the alleged "copyright holder" wants to do anything more, they have to start legal proceedings.

You don't need a signed document, but you do need a record of their declaring the material to be public domain. A chat log should suffice, but of course you have to make sure you are actually talking to the original creator. If someone tricked you on that matter (eg. you get a "Yes" confirmation from the person listed as the creator, but it turns out they made the texture by taking a screenshot of someone else's texture and uploading that) you would still have a responsibility to take the material down immediately if a dispute comes up, but until such a time then as long as you're making a good-faith effort to make sure everything's on the level, and keeping documentation, you should be fine.

Should. Bear in mind, nothing to do with copyright is an iron-clad right or wrong. I would say if you do the above then any disputes in the future can be handled with confidence, but of course disputes can still crop up and you just have to be prepared to handle them. If you want 100% assurance, well, nothing's 100% sure. Well, except straightforward mathematical formulas I suppose.

To my knowledge, no. Infringement is infringement. You may be thinking of trademarks, which do have to be enforced.

A workable solution in your case would be to IM texture creator for the freebies you have and confirm that the textures are indeed free. A simple script could be written to loop through the inventory of a container object to display a list of texture names and their creators.

You could use wording like:
"I am creating <product> and will be distributing your texture <texture> as part of it. This texture <texture> in my possession is flagged Copy/Mod/Transfer and I have every reason to believe you intended for it to be freely distributed. If this is not the case, please reply to this IM. If I get no response before <time>, please be advised I will continue to include your texture <texture> with the distribution. If at any time after that, I will modify my source object at your request but cannot be held responsible for any objects already distributed."


Maybe not that exact wording, but something that proves you are making a good-faith effort.

Nice thinking. My guess is wont hold unless the IM say's: Thease textures wont be displayed unless you give your approvemnet.

Legaly I don't think you have no right to hand over the action on the creator. He/she are not obliged to do anything to protect their rights. That's my job. E.g meaning. I have to search them up and ask them.

Unless I get their attention, I can't use their work, no matter what.

But hey, I'm not a lawyer, can't even spell it. Could I?

I really do think it is time the texture sellers bit the bullet and put their textures for sale at two tiers:

. one at a lower price for copy/mod/no transfer
. one at a higher price for copy/mod/transfer

Is there some reason this wouldn't work? (I think it would.)

LL doesn't seem to be ever going to address this issue with putting a difference between transfer and sell.

So I think if I were a texture seller this would be what I would do. Anyone wanting to texture something to sell (or might want to sell later) would need to buy the higher priced texture or texture bundle.

coco

Well... it isn't quite that simple. They're filing legal notice to have them taken down. If you are positive that they are in the wrong, you can file counter-notice (also a legal filing) to have them put back up.

If the copyright holder does decide to litigate, and it's legitimate, your counter-notice could get you in more hot water than if you didn't file it in the first place.

I guess it's a matter of calling their bluff. Over some textures, someone probably wouldn't go that far. But you can't be sure.

First. Really appreciate everyones engagement in this matter, ty all!

So to summarize everything:

It's against copyright laws to re-sell (or give away) anything that anyone else created unless I have the creators approvement.

So... we're all criminals?

Just to throw a small monkey wrench in...

Many texture sellers in world have either imported them from a royalty free source or have imported them from copyright encumbered sources that aren't theirs. In either case they have no claim against you and I don't see where they stated they were the copyright holder.

I've seen some players - after having uploaded a texture from a third-party source - mistakenly believe that it is "theirs". Unfortunately, if the uploader isn't the copyright holder then you have no idea of who the holder is.

I think you did well in erring on the side of caution, but your claimant may not have the rights he is asserting.

I mention this not to complicate the issue (although it may) but there has been debate since the DMCA was enacted that it affords a chilling effect on this sort of activity as the burden of proof on the claimant is quite small.

Oh you're absolutely right. Woopsy, don't simply assume that you are in the wrong and have to appease them just because they are angry. I would definitely exercise caution here, but one person sending you an angry message doesn't suddenly mean you have a big problem.

Ty for joining Malachi,

I still refrain to my last statement (probably posted before u saw it).

All posts here has been really intelligent and well spoken but it stil leaves me with this question:

It's against copyright laws to re-sell (or give away) anything that anyone else created unless I have the creators approvement.

Leaving textures for a while.

If I make a chair, sell it with full rights. See someone re-sell it without my approval. Can I sue him?

As I see it, this is the same thing. Except textures is a bit more complicated as you can violate it in two steps by using an already copyrighted original.

So whats right or whats wrong?

The person uploading a copyrighted painting, becoming the creator in game. Or me distributing it for free without asking the owner?

I think there's no clear answer here. Even if the OUTWORLD copyright laws are very clear and obvious I think they should not apply on INWORLD CREATED items.

So what if I create a painting using a copyrighted outworld texture using an inworld object. Wrong I'd say.

If I creat an image in MS-Paint, upload it and claim it's mine. Add it to a frame and sell it? Can I claim copyright? Copyright laws says yes! But you have to proove it.

Yikes, I give up. Pls continue.

The problem in that case is, what happens if someone else claims that they drew the textures, and the SL "creator" just uploaded them?

And vice versa, too.. I've noticed that one of the "boxes of textures" on sale now includes the sample textures from Genetica, which are meant to be free. So does that make it OK to distribute them on SL? The uploader doesn't own the copyright.. but on the other hand, their sales pay their upload fees, so I would say no for the moment.

The problem with the DMCA system at the moment is that the other person doesn't have to present any evidence to get a location or service taken down. If you want to see the evidence, you have to take it to a court case, where you might lose. And a texture could have been drawn by anyone - any private individual you've never heard of - so it's almost impossible to identify a frivolous claim.