How do you hire a scripter?

Anyone have any ideas on how to get a scripter hired? I have tried all kinds of things but it always seems the scripters all say the same thing. Either they send you to the scripting library, They offer you a freebie script and tell you to "mess with it a little" or they just refuse the job. What can a person offer a scripter to make them stand up and say "I'll do it!!" I have tried cash it doesnt work. Maybe free pizza and nachos or something. Anyway if you know any scripters that actually want to earn some money doing what they do send them my way.

What do you want done? Maybe you are not offering enough money for the project on hand. What do you want from the scripter? Are you looking for one to teach you how to script, or are you just looking for one that will make a script for you? Depending on what you want, different sources would be best for you to try.

What do you want done and how much are you willing to pay for it?

I do scripting, and although I'm admitedly new to SL, I am a programmer / systems analyst in RL. I have a lot of experience in designing custom systems based on client requirements and specifications.

This probably isn't the right place to post requirements and transact business but you can IM me in-world or PM me in the forum here if you like.

-Atashi

If you are looking to hire, you can also try posting in the help wanted forum. There are good people that look for work there.

yeah, odds are that you aren't offering ENOUGH money...

a lot of "Scripters" are fairly busy people. in the "Post Copybot" world, an object's value is tied a great deal closer to it's functions. And there is such an arms race in terms of ripping off each other's tricks, thanks in part to the lucrative market for weapons, that many people have taken to spending more time and effort designing feigns, dodges, and boobytraps to protect their script, than they spent actually writing the script.

You might be on the right track with pizza. Think of your price in terms of it's real world value in dollars. A cheapo one topping pizza will cost about 2000 lindens. (about $7.50). Start offering "real money" and you'll find that scripters will make themselves available.

And some of us will turn down "too large" offers for very easy scripts. I know that I was offered 5k for the manual labor associated with laying out some skyboxes, setting up some teleporters, and scripting a simple "the room is occupied" system. I countered the offer by asking for half that. It was an hour and a half of my time, I learned something in the process, and the teleporters didn't quite work out the way I'd hoped.

The object is never the lack of money. Most times it wont even get to that point. I can post in the forums and get no replies or a friend of a friend who is a scripter will say ok ill get back to you with a price and then never get back.
I do need a scripter but this post is more to the point of, why is it so hard to find one. If you make a post saying you want a certin outfit, you get a thousand people offering to do it. Yes clothing is easyer then scripting, and therefore more people are willing and able to help but when you ask for a simple script you get nothing but crickets chirping or people telling you to go to the library. If i wanted to script i could probably do it easy but i have no intrest. It just seems to me that money isnt the proper motivation for a scripter and i was wondering what is

Fun. Many scripters are experienced programmers and earn much more money in real life than they could earn in SL. It's orders of magnitudes in difference.

Also, some scripters have areas of interest. For example, I'm simply not interested in weapons, vehicles or casino stuff and therefore aren't interested in writing that kind of stuff.

Exactly. If one is going to take on a task at sub-third-world-country rates of pay, it had better be something that you will enjoy doing.

Precisely.

However, if it helps to pay the SL land rent, I'd be glad to work for Lindens - it's fun and beneficiary. It also improves the experience by immersion your further in this virtual life.

Just like I'm a game developer in real life - fun and lucrative

I think on a personal level (and I suspect much of it is shared my others) is scriptors are more interested in "new", "ground breaking", etc. than the same old script over and over. I do believe price has some detail to it - not as large of one as the interest in the project, but the realization that typically we are offerred <x> amount for a script for a project we will know will be sold, where <x> = a small fraction of the potential income from the object's sales. I myself am usually more interested in taking a project where a) it is exciting, fresh, and new, and b) I have long term interest in the object's success (i.e. a % of the profit opposed to a flat rate). I also suspect you'll get better work by offering a % - if it is a flat rate, you'll get a script that does _exactly_ what you specify. If you offer a %, you'll gain additional input from the scriptor on how to improve what you had envisioned.

Another reason is just the raw lack of time. Myself and most scriptors I know get numerous requests for scripts on a daily basis. Most of us also have about 100 personal projects that are 1/2 the way done that we are usually more interested in finishing than taking on another project.

Yet another reason is that often there is unrealistic expectations. Nothing bothers me more than someone coming to hire me to do code, then when told there are some technical reasons why the described script will not work exactly how it is described, however offer suggestions on how it could be achieved, just to get argued that "they want it this way". Well tuff, it won't work - script it yourself if you think it is possible.

Back to the raw money bit, especially in scripts that involved web<->SL communications, what scriptors are offerred to script a few LSL scripts + some PHP/Perl scripts is a mere fraction of what they get paid for 8 hours a day to do in PHP/Perl. The last thing we would want is to come home, to escape the stress of deadlines, demands, are coding repeative scripts to come on to SL to relax and be told we should do the same for a few more hours, only at a much less reduced rate.

Another aspect that bugs me is the demand for "exclusive" scripts. The problem there is while sure, there is 100 ways to do something usually, there is usually a single (or a handful) of "good" ways to do something. When we do an "exclusive" script, we chip away at our freedom for future projects. While more artistic fields are subjective (whether texture a or texture b is better, or if model a or model b is better), scripting is very measureable as far as which is better.

Anyways, enough of my ramblings.

This thread gives me hope!

In RL I'm a web developer, with an emphasis on integrating visual design into .Net pages. Over time I've learned enough C# to do routine and repetitive coding, which I enjoy and which saves the programmers tedious work that basically wastes their time.

So it looks like there's a similar niche for me to fill in SL: small scripting jobs for the sheer fun of it. My exposure to C# should help me learn the C++ based LSL fairly quickly.

Thanks for letting me know of a void that I can help fill.

Of course it is. Almost any scripter would work for, say, $200,000US per year plus full benefits, and a guaranteed 5 year contract. I know I would, in case you are offering that much.

Or, are you at least paying $100US/hour?

If not, then it comes down to fun. There are scripts I will write for free, and there are the other ones...

Try the organizations and people listed on the Developers page:

http://secondlife.com/developers/consultants.php

(shameless plug) SL-ice..my organization..is there too

Money, area of interest, and availability.

I have a LOT of projects on my plate all the time; my own, ones for the community I help manage, ones for my friends who are in need of help, and then ones for customers in need.

I've never seen you request for a scripter, so I can say with some certainty that you haven't hit any of my hangouts that I have been to recently. As someone else posted, post your job offer in the Help Wanted forum, and if anything, I will see it and comment on any possible reasons I can think of why you aren't getting a response.

I see what you are saying Lee but belive me i have offered A LOT of cash for scripts before and still have got no responce. 100 an hour ....no way.
I am a builder in RL and in SL too I am quite good if i do say so myself but i do it for fun as you said. But if someone wants me to build them something i will do it and give it to them and when they ask how much my responce is normally "whatever you think its worth" or "no charge".
Yes i have done sim size builds and yes i have charged for them but never even close to RL prices. And i wouldnt expect to have to pay RL prices for a script in SL either. -
And Talarus.. look in the help wanted right now. Lveran Koolhaas has 2 posts for a script wanted with a total of 95 views but not a single responce saying someone will help

I usually come up with a Fairly Juicey idea.
I'm Good at Visualizing things, But i have no head for scripting. I have a rough idea of what is Possible, and i can Lay out the Parameters of what i want to a scripter.
My Fox Hunt for example, or my Proximity detecting poisonous Insects, or an object i just call my Spooky Gun (Harmless). I Get an idea with something way out of the ordinary. Based somewhat on what i Know is already Possible, But it Has a Hook.
It has to be something Fun, something a Little Challenging, and something definately Novel.
I Meet scripters socially Mostly, and i Toss my idea at them. Many Jump at the Chance to do something a Little different. Each of the Items i named above were done by Different scripters, One of them i have used several times, she's clever, Fast, and has No problem Seeing my Vision. I'll use her services any time.

Start with a Simple but Novel Idea. Find a scripter that will be Challenged by the concept. See how Fast they work, how well they keep to a Deadline, and how interested they are in Hearing More ideas. And, If you are VERY pleased with the results, Throw a Few more Lindens than were originally agreed upon into the Pot. If they are REALLY Good, Have your Next Project ready for them.
Scripters are Artists too, and they Love to have thier work appreciated.
And if you want the script to be yours exclusively, Be willing to PAY for it. Just because a scripters work resembles a Note Card, doesn't mean it is Less Valuable than a Huge Multiprim Build. In most cases it can be More Valuable.

Angel.

unless the project is bleeding edge interest for me, don't expect anything under at least 30$ per hour of work.

yeah i need to eat too and i have other projects running anyway

OK. Well, I can tell you right now that what you are asking for is a Vehicle script. Vehicles are not trivial scripts to make, and only a small percentage of scripters know how well enough to really be "hire"-able.

I actually have not gotten into vehicles yet, so that is one reason why I probably would not have responded to it. I think that would be a common situation with a lot of scripters.

I can't really speculate on how much a job like that would cost, but depending on how much fine-tuning you wanted, it could run L$10k to L$20k, maybe a bit more. It's hard to say, because your specification of work is pretty broad.

Good luck finding someone


I had bad experience running into people who either :

a. probably belonged on the teen grid and did not know what they were talking about. Either that or they need to take classes on how to deal with people properly and run a "business"

b. took on the project and ended up pulling out of it weeks later. (Why not just tell me it was too hard for you so I could have looked for someone else?!)

or

c. delivered a faulty product and would not refund what had been paid. (I really hated the ones who claimed they KNEW how to do it but were playing guessing games along the way)



Sad thing is, these people will assure you they know what you want and assure you they know how to do it- believable, but they`re total flakes/kids looking for some bucks.

The known scriptors with many well done sl projects under their belts were always booked when I contacted em.



However, out of all of these failed projects I tried to get done, I did deal with 2 VERY nice to deal with scriptors who delivered a nicely done project. I guess I would just suggest to make sure the peroson you contact is someone who has inworld designs they have worked on, for sure.

So you've got the answer to your question. Since the day L$ was an a pair to US$, SL has a real economy which has to play *inside* real economy, with the same rules and values. If SL prices cannot be attractive compared to RL one's, users prefer to see SL as a game and create content for fun.

Let me develop another point. As a scripter, i know that what will pay is a sophisticated, feature-packed bells-and-whistles device. I know also that these script will have an impact on simulator's performance. As I have no tool to measure this impact, I may also suspect that my scripts are CPU hogs and not willing to see them cloned hundreds or thousand of times. Maybe I will be rich according to SL's standards, but I will be poor according to simulator resources if all my neighbours use my latest gadget, each with 30+ scripts active and llSense every second to give the feeling i'm a cool CIA agent. A friend of mine is earning fairly high $L by selling multi-gadget googles. I can build and sell such googles but hey, I know NOBODY NEEDS THEM REALLY. So, should I contribute to waste resources? The answer is no. I've seen too much sims with Time Dilation crashing down.

Same problem applies to prim clothes. I've seen 80+ prims wings, 40 prims watches, perhaps 100 prims boots. Sure, the are nice and well crafted. They are beautiful artwork. I can enjoy to build them and be proud to display them. But does I want everyone around me to wear 500 prims and 100 scripts? No. As a user of shared resources, I don't want. I will release sophisticated and possibly resource-consuming scripts only if they enhance the collective experience, not just for the vanity of some customers.

My friend tells a story about a noob who came to him, asking for a script. They discussed the work, the features needed, and the price. All was agreed to, and he began work. To show his good faith as a longstanding member of the community, he didn't demand payment in full before starting. He worked very hard to produce the desired item. 2 days later he returned to the noob again with a very finished product in hand, who refused to pay him because he'd already bought something else in a shop.

the noob's attitude is "hey man, lighten up, it's just a game"

That's why it's so hard to hire a scripter. We've ALL had something like this happen to us.

The person doing all the work works on the project in good faith that he'll get paid. The person paying for the item, blows it off cause it's just a game and doesn't matter. (it's not real money right?).. it's funny how they're never willing to just throw that play money at you even though they no longer want the item.

That's why I only take on projects for friends, or myself.. and then sell the finished products. That way, if people want it, great, and if not, well I didn't make it for them anyways.

I pretty much have to agree with everything that's been said so far about this. The cold hard facts are there's no real viable economic incentive for most of us who are competent scripters, because our r/l jobs more than adequately compensate us and the cost - the time commitment during our "relaxation time", the annoyance of having to deal with customers who might jack us or are constantly changing specs - enough of those nightmares, please! And why should I stop work on all the great stuff I WANT to develop, just for someone's land radio project (arent' there already like some 100 or so out there? double-yawn!)

What would incentive me? How 'bout a nice piece of waterfront property, with projected land having a nice view on the one side and good neighbors? That's something I can't get r/l, but would kill for in game. Or if a well-known builder with a history of beautiful and creative works wanted a script, well, that'd be worth it just to be able to talk with them and share ideas.

I've made lots of nice, creative scripted thingies to give out free to friends and cool people I run across from the "build cool things, give cool things to cool people, talk with them" school of making friendships.

Now, that doesnt' mean I would not give someone the time of day if they had a script request, but I'd be more likely to point them to an already existing script and be handy to them for IM requests about navigation the scripting WIKI and the in's and out's of various scripting commands. I'll help someone with their dream, so long as it doesn't put my dreams on hold and there's some basic competence there. LSL is NOT that hard, folks!

Many scripters also code for a living in RL, and the last thing they want to do when they get into SL - which is supposed to be _relaxing_ - is do professional work there, too. It is a time when one can exercise one's skills for fun rather than being at the beck and call of someone else, no matter how polite they are.

Scripting products and selling them gives the scripter the opportunity to work at their own pace, not have to meet deadlines, express a bit of creativity, come up with new ideas, even abandon the whole project if they wish. Contract work doesn't. So the number of people who actually want to do that in practice is quite small.

I used to do some contract scripting but I don't any more; as Winter says, the problems, and the rewards gained, are not worth the hour upon hour of effort. I welcome suggestions for new additions to my products and product line, but the only scripting I do on request is (a) very simple stuff that takes me half an hour (b) work for group projects that I am involved in (c) little presents for friends or (d) things that I am interested in anyway, in which case I will likely do it for free so as to avoid any possible requirement to carry on if I lose interest. The last three will also be tempered by the time that is likely to be spent - someone would have to be a very good friend before I spent a whole week doing nothing else but scripting up a solution for their latest dilemma