An opinion question of sorts.

So, there seems to be a lot of anger towards Corporations coming into SL and selling SL goods, and possibly selling RL goods as well, but are mostly here for advertising.

My question, what if a person such as myself put my handcrafted jewelry (RL goods) up for sale in SL? Would that be met w/ the same opposition?

I know there are musicians that sell their songs for inworld play, as well as a few that sell or at least advertise their CD's in world. Is that wrong as well?

Was just curious as to all of your thoughts on this.

Me personally, I think it is fine. Then again I also have no problem with corporations in SL. I don't think it will be the end of the world. There is already a bunch of quality freebies out there. That doesn't keep people from wanting to buy. As for corporations being able to spend huge amounts on the classifieds, I think the classifieds are way overrated. I didn't even realize they existed for several months of play. I always look under the all tab first when I am search and have rarely used the classifieds.

I believe most of us would not object to individual efforts such as you describe.

What many fear is being overrun by a corporate Goliath that can out-bid and out spend any individual here (other than maybe Anshe Chung) while spending less than what the Corp pays for executive lunches for a day or two. In other words, they could run over us and not even notice the speed bump, whereas it is impossible for an individual to compete against their huge budgets.

We're already seeing corps buying the top spots in the classified ads, because they can spend that kind of money and write it off as an expense, and hardly notice it. Soon it could be similar for land auctions, sim purchases, and anything else where the one willing to spend the most money always gets the prize.

I don't have any problems with corporations in SL advertising, selling SL good, selling RL goods... I think the people who are against this are fearful of the future.

It is a hypocritical argument to be FOR one business to be 'okay' and one business to be 'not okay' ... there is no place to draw the line.... especially once it becomes manditory to pay taxes on virtual profits. Then no matter what, everyone's business is RL, even if it's just in SL.

RL corporations use Ebay.. however, no one complains about that. Consumers buy what they want, and they want it to be available... there should be no restrictions on this.

I think the fear stems from people thinking LL will give favortism to corporations flaunting wads of cash. If corporations begin to spam.. then we have a problem.
I have already been spammed by Nissan, where they hired an SLer to spam notecards at events. I now will never consider buying a Nissan, or visiting their sim inworld. Nissan screwed up and spammed, so they're blacklisted in my personal books... but anyone can be ousted by me, no matter who or what it is, if I get unwelcome spam, they're cut off.

... but the future of SL will be an open sourced internet, where anyone, can use it for business, personal, whatever.

My personal opinion: you should use SL to its fullest potential to operate business in any way you can.

Sure you can, any business who profits more than 500,000 RL.

I think the biggest issue for me is that they come in here to advertise and not really embrace SL the way the rest of us do. If it's an ad vehicle for them, that's easily disposible (2 of the 4 top ads in the 90,000's is something like 320 bucks RL).

While the other 2 are up there, it's more likely a one time thing whereas these companies can stay up there forever. The next down and getting to the more common is under 50k.

And god help us if another car dealer comes in like Chevy and starts to outprice the others in ads... We could easily see a million dollars for classifieds. Then when all these companies come in, it's quite possibly that most of the front page ads are corporations.

If SL would charge them a certain amount more, because they are only here to ad RW products, and SL is using the price hike (thanks to Zee Linden's comments) as a reason of 'companies can and will pay that', why should the rest of us have to? We make the game, the actual players. Not corps that run a few PR events, and the real company people aren't even in SL except at the 'event'. And the buck to keep the free players around, who don't pass money through LL at all (note I clarified, not saying all free don't contribute) to keep numbers up to keep these companies in SL is being passed on to real hard workers in SL, who mostly do it for fun and need to at least break even at the end of the month.

I'm sure the SL cost is just tax deductible business expense of a minor sort to any large corporation.

i still am not finding a problem with RL corps paying a buttload for top placement in the classifieds.... It is called "Classifieds" why should there be any limit?
The classifieds are a complete waste of money in the first place, and any SLer knows this.. but the RL corps who aren't around don't realize it's a waste of money.

LL isn't going to put a limit on the kinds of classifieds, and they're not going to differenciate different levels of corporations, companies, personal, whatever.... If anyone is willing to pay LL, there's no way they're going to restrict that.

pontiac - soon

what i'd REALLY like to know is how this tv is going to work

do the maths - even when at its peak sl has say 15,000 people - why on earth would anyone want to create programming for that number - let alone the real figures which would be, at a high figure say 50 peopleat any one time.....

and they are talking about later on doing SUBSCRIPTION!!! laughs! bizarre.....

i just get the feeling this is just a way of getting a bunch of press & pr for a certain uk broadcaster and their radio plans - but even then dont they realise that sl is er worldwide

the mind boggles...

It completely is about press and pr..... it's less about advertising, although the RL companies don't know it yet. The advertising isn't too impactful, and the RL companies will soon realize this.
As far as the PR and promo goes, its excellent right now at this current point, but will also have very little impact soon.

The RL companies are coming in now, because now is the time they can say "we are the first company to exist in secondlife" or "we are the first to do such n such" Even though they are totally false and unfactual, they still are saying things like this. Any company can enter secondlife and write a press release claiming whatever they want. And the news and magazines and radios take this info, create a story, and that's press for the company.
No one in SL really gives a damn about these companies, or the RL musicians coming in to play a show... but it's the opportunity to claim "we were the first"

...It's just a chance for companies to jump on this current bandwagon.. but it'll die down soon, once companies flood into SL, but there's no story of interest, and there's nothing for that company to do in SL

I do however welcome companies such as Reuters, CNet, and Wired into SL. They are bringing something interesting and important into SL. Companies such as American Apparel, Nissan, Toyota, etc.. they are pointless inworld. Let em waste their money and throw it towards LindenLab, since LL obviously needs it.

Well, I'm not fearful of the future.

Nor am I against corporations in SL. I'm against charging regular residents the same land fees, tier, and other fees that companies here just to use SL as an advertising billboard for their real product, the one that exists in the real world, are charged.

They should be charged a commercial rate. Residents who sell only pixel-only goods and services, available only in SL and of use only in SL, whose entire businesses are inside SL, should pay a resident rate.

The place to draw the line couldn't possibly be more concrete: Does your product or service exist in the real world, or not?

Is your pixel car just that, and that only - a virtual car? Or is your pixel car actually unimportant, because your real mission is to sell your real cars in the real world?

Taxes are beside the point. The critical difference is not whether your business makes money, but whether your product or service can be consumed in the real world, or is available only in SL.

That will neatly differentiate between Nissan, Nike, and the rest, here only as part of their advertising budget to draw attention to their real-world goods, and someone here just to make virtual t-shirts and sell them to other avatars.

Each type of business exists in an entirely different economy, and always will, as I sincerely doubt anyone will ever pay as much for a virtual pixel car to use in a virtual world as they will pay for a real-world car.

So the OP would, by this sytem, pay commercial rates for any land she used to promote, advertise, and/or sell her real-world jewelry on. Just as, for example, an Avon saleslady would pay commercial rate for any land she used as her Avon headquarters.

But as for her worrying about any backlash from other residents, I think the other posters here are right - not a worry at all. She wouldn't get any backlash from me, because I'm not against real-world companies in SL. And she wouldn't get any backlash from those who are against the monster corporations that are going to stomp us out of existance, because she's not a monster corporation. In fact, they're likely to consider her business as neat as I do.

coco

P.S. Let me get off my political soapbox just enough to make this real clear: I think the idea of you selling your handcrafted jewelry in SL is just so cool! I think that is just a fabulous idea! If you do, let me know about it, as I would love to come see it!

ive had a "discussion" with both channel 4 and the gruadian in email today about a) grauniads lack of research on 2 sets of pr and b) channel 4 about their claim re: radio

suffice to say that all the grandianardian could said was "why are we fuckwits ?" and channel 4 wouldnt say anything against my 5 paragraph comment about their press release other than to say that my email was "deeply offensive to the majority" - at some point in the email i called them fuckwits... calling someone from channel 4 a fuckwit is quite funny when you consider their programming output...... (if you are outside the uk you wont get this but channel 4 have tons of tits n arse, porn, swearing etc etc etc - and its a normal terrestrial broadcaster)

i agree about wired, reuters etc but i keep looking around at wired, reuters etc and theres few people there - why they arent holding discussions is beyond me

sony/bmg must be pissed though - i never see a soul on media island *laughs* (though i know it shouldnt surprise anyone here...)

There Is a Rather Well Known SL player who has set up an Incredibly Successful Realestate Empire. If you read some Archived SL Forums, you will not a Certain Hostility directed at her and her efforts from some Quarters, so, Yes, I would have to say, Even if your business were Purely SL in Origin, IF you became Extremely Successful or Profitable there are those who would be down on you. Some will feel your extreme success somehow makes their own efforts Futile, Some will be jealous of the Profits you make, and others will simply dislike you on Principle.

My advice is, Don't worry about it. Go Ahead, Bring your designs into SL, and Good Luck.

Angel.

I wouldn't object. I don't object to the corporations either. I think that those people who object to the corporations, however, would be hypocritical to not object to you. Corporations are, like LeAnne, just people trying to make a living. It just so happens that in a Corporation, a lot of people have banded together for mutual security. That's human nature - that's why tribes, clans, families and nations exist. To object to corporations is to object to human interraction - our success as a species is down to how we cooperate and form groups.

Where do you draw the line, people who object to corporations? If LeAnne and another jeweller got together? If 10 jewellers get together. 100? 22,000? Ultimately, as I said, corporations are just a lot of individuals who decide to work together.

many fear that with the coming of Corporate America to SL, that any creativity would be stifled and monitered. i even had a talk with friends regarding it and trademark issues came up, ie : whats to stop XYZ company from suing me, or claiming copyright infringement, for making a skirt, shoe, etc similar to thiers?

thats where the main concerns are, or at least in my circle it is.

It was supposed to be "Your World, Your Imagination"...
In another year it will be just another trip to Walmart.

Well, I thank you all for your thoughts on this.

I don't know exactly yet if I am going to do the RL jewelry thing in SL yet. Was just a thought, because I felt guilty about playing SL and have a basket of earrings I need to photograph and post to my website that I have been ignoring.

I was thinking that the jewelry would only be a piece or two at a time, not a whole store. If they sell, will post another, if they dont I switch em out or I save myself the upload and dont post anymore.

As far as tier rates, if there were split levels and they wanted me to pay a higher corporate rate because I occasionally post a piece of RL jewelry in my SL store where I sell SL content, (clothes, fountains, shoes...), I would have to polietly tell em to stick it were the sun doesnt shine. I am not a corp, the jewelry, like SL is a hobby and the only reason I sell stuff for either is so they can pay for themselves.

Anyways thanks again for the thoughts.

Before I toss my two cents in let make clear that I am a huge fan of free market capitalism, a system that has done more good for more people than any other devised by man.

I think the problem here is that unlike EBay, which has one function only, people come into SL for a mix of commercial and leisure purposes. The person that has carefully built and scripted a Mustang is probably getting a charge out of seeing people use his product, and when Ford comes in to sell their own brand they are effectively ruining a leisure activity for this person.

The same thing is what drives fears about various usage fees and prices going up. Someone using land just to have fun can potentially be priced out of the market by Wal Mart of SL putting up a megastore. Several people here have rightly pointed out that to such entities an amount of money that would bankrupt an individual is little more than a rounding error.

I think ultimately the answer is going to lie in some kind of zoning restrictions, possibly based on gross sales or traffic. But a balance has to be struck, because it's the presence of all these recreational players that makes SL attractive to corporations in the first place. Drive us out and big business will follow.

Well, I know Phillip and LL won't be doing this... but lets humor this idea anyway...

I'm a RL DJ, RL event producer, and RL marketing specialist.... I do all 3 of these things in SL... should I be charged a commercial rate?

Someone that offers graphic design services for SL residents, should they be charged a commercial rate? how about when they post a one-prim sign that says "I am available for RL graphic design work"

I'm thinking of countlesss more examples like the 2 above where there would need to be a huge investigation task force trying to figure out who does what outside of SL and how much they are making. It's too tough to decide, and LL certainly is not qualified to make these judgements.

Land use is what's key.

You use your SL land, "Doubledown's Domicile," to reside on and hang out with your friends - resident rate.

You use your land to DJ, "Doubledown's Real Name DJ Service" as headquarters for the same DJ you are in real life - commercial rate.

Someone hires "Doubledown's Real Name DJ Service" to DJ at their event on their land, "Somebody's Club" - "Somebody's Club" does not pay commercial rates for their land. They don't offer services outside of SL, so they pay resident rate for their land.

You are a real-life event producer, and your land, "Doubledown's Virtual Events," is used to promote this in virtual worlds - commercial rate, since you provide those services outside of SL, for other venues besides SL. (In other words, dubbing it "Nissan's Virtual Cars" would not be sufficient to save Nissan from the commercial rate.)

Someone who offers graphic design services, under the same name they use for non-SL graphic design services - commercial rate.

It boils down to this: If your land sells or promotes a non-SL service or product, it gets a commercial rate. (It doesn't matter how much money you make in real-life from it, by the way, or even if you are actually losing money.)

If your land promotes products or services available only within SL, doing business under a name that exists only in SL - resident rate.

It isn't a huge investigation task to determine if someone's business is available outside of SL, as they aren't likely to hide that fact in the first place.

Just today, I discovered that AnsheCorp provides services to There, IMVU, and elsewhere, due to the fact that they advertise this, and Guni mentioned it to Reuters.

Therefore, Anshecorp - commercial rate.

coco

Flaw there Coco, one doesnt use ones land to DJ, you stream in using external software such as Sam2, when I DJ for Phreak... I'm not even inworld.
And ANY stream accessible through SL can be acessed from outside SL using Winamp.

You know, in a way, we all are like a small town that has just gotten its first Walmart. All our small main-street businesses are worried, some residents are thinking it's great that we've finally arrived at the Big Time, others are in an uproar over the loss of that small town feel that SL used to have. When you look at the big picture, we stopped being a small town when registration opened up, not when corporations took notice. Many of us are mourning the loss of connectedness that we used to feel, newer residents have no idea what we are griping about...

I'm gonna take a shot at this.

I think CoCo's meaning advertising on that land a RW product. If there's some ads up saying hire me in Real Life... then it'd be commercial. Not simply owning land and doing something in RL and SL. It's how you use the space you own.

Personally, I like that idea. I don't have endless disposible money like Nissan does, and frankly, with the prices of some of the cars they are offering, fully mod at that... I'm sure there are some vehicle makers out there, not entirely happy.

Yep, more and more each day, that closeness and comraderie is leaving SL.

Don't forget though... that small town with mom and pop stores... doesn't have mom and pop stores anymore... While Wal-Mart may employ some, if no other business comes in, then people that used to work there have to pack up and leave.

Seola, I kind-of think the comparison ends with our reaction as residents. Our small SL businesses aren't really in any danger from corporate businesses. I think it unlikely that any RL brands are going to put SL businesses out of action - we don't much tend to like "mainstream" here in SL. Look at our clothing, hair, skins, jewelry, houses, etc... The buyers of SL are styling themselves in ways that they can't in RL, due to cultural and financial restrictions. The fact that so much of our SL lives are built around self-expression really limits the impact of cookie cutter RL corporations. How many of us would actually shop at American Apparel when there is a Pixel Dolls just a teleport away? Why buy some drab RL imitation when I can be the warrior princess living out my fantasy life?

LeAnna you go ahead and the best of luck to you.

I am already advertising my first life business in Second Life although I have to say the process was harder than I originally thought it would be.

But cost issues aside I think you need to handle it with care, as another poster commented people use SL for any number of reasons and I think that the main thing to avoid is aggressive marketing thus not spoiling others enjoyment.

Also consistency, if you are going to do it I think you need to commit for longer than "giving it a shot for a few weeks". Then people get to know you are around and marketing becomes less of an issue.

Finally while doing it support pure S/L business. For example I advertise in the Metaverse Messenger and all my business equipment, house, and land, has been purchased in world from normal S/L avatar creators and business people/avatars. Then everybody gets a cut of the cake