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Bragg Vs Linden Lab

Watermelon Tokyo
Square
Join date: 20 Nov 2006
Posts: 93
06-03-2007 10:25
From: Serenarra Trilling
I understand the "ruling" a little better now, and to me it opens up a really big can of worms.

Scenario: Six months ago, a user bought a sim. They set it up strictly for BDSM use. According to a recent blog, it's entirely possible that they could be banned for "generally offensive" content, and they lose their land.

Because of this ruling, would LL now be required to give them back the money they paid for the sim?

What's to prevent anyone from buying 5 islands, making $100,000 US from businesses on those islands, then posting kiddie porn on them to get banned. Does LL then have to give them back the thousands of $US they paid for those islands?

If you think it through, why should LL have to give money back to anyone who abuses the rules? If they give it to one, they have to give it to ALL. Where do you draw the line?

Think about it.


I think this analysis is getting a little bit ahead of the ruling. The ruling, as reported on the Reuters site, doesn't say anything about the property or compensation etc, just that LL can't just arbitrarily decide what's what. The final outcome could still be that LL can confiscate all your stuff.

WRT the analysis above, I think if you bought something under a TOS and the TOS changes, then you should most certainly be entitled to at least a refund. If you buy something under a TOS expecting to violate THAT TOS... well I dunno. I guess you own the thing, but can't use it the way you wanted, but really, there shouldn't be any expectation otherwise.
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Matthew Dowd
Registered User
Join date: 30 Jan 2007
Posts: 1,046
06-03-2007 10:47
The payment for the islands is a one off so getting a refund is unlikely.

However, any tier fees paid would be refundable pro rata of remaining time in the tier. If premier had been paid for quarterly or annually that again pro rata refunds would be due.

Arguably the user would be permitted some time to sell off any assets such as islands and cash out of the game before the ban became effective.

Also the user could challenge the decision to ban in the first place.
Najmah Handayani
(aka Toy LaFollette)
Join date: 26 Nov 2006
Posts: 154
06-03-2007 11:25
All that has happened with the lawsuit is.....

Philip Rosedale CAN be named in the suit along with Linden Research.

Also the judge ruled that the SL TOS is a contract of adhesion.......

adhesion contract
n.(contract of adhesion) a contract (often a signed form) so imbalanced in favor of one party over the other that there is a strong implication it was not freely bargained. Example: a rich landlord dealing with a poor tenant who has no choice and must accept all terms of a lease, no matter how restrictive or burdensome, since the tenant cannot afford to move. An adhesion contract can give the little guy the opportunity to claim in court that the contract with the big shot is invalid. This doctrine should be used and applied more often, but the same big guy-little guy inequity may apply in the ability to afford a trial or find and pay a resourceful lawyer.
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Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
06-03-2007 13:42
Actually, what I'd like to see argued is that a lack of a proper backup feature means that the LL is on the hook for our data.

Once we can backup our data, at least the stuff we create ourselves, then I think they should be given some leeway on data retention.
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John Toonie
Registered User
Join date: 3 Jul 2005
Posts: 58
06-03-2007 13:58
From: Iron Perth
Actually, what I'd like to see argued is that a lack of a proper backup feature means that the LL is on the hook for our data.

Once we can backup our data, at least the stuff we create ourselves, then I think they should be given some leeway on data retention.


Nope, their not, current TOS states they are in no way responcible for data stored on their servers, and when you place anything in sl LL can do what they please with it.

3.2 You retain copyright and other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create in Second Life, to the extent that you have such rights under applicable law. However, you must make certain representations and warranties, and provide certain license rights, forbearances and indemnification, to Linden Lab and to other users of Second Life.

Notwithstanding the foregoing, you understand and agree that by submitting your Content to any area of the service, you automatically grant (and you represent and warrant that you have the right to grant) to Linden Lab: (a) a royalty-free, worldwide, fully paid-up, perpetual, irrevocable, non-exclusive right and license to (i) use, reproduce and distribute your Content within the Service as permitted by you through your interactions on the Service, and (ii) use and reproduce (and to authorize third parties to use and reproduce) any of your Content in any or all media for marketing and/or promotional purposes in connection with the Service, provided that in the event that your Content appears publicly in material under the control of Linden Lab, and you provide written notice to Linden Lab of your desire to discontinue the distribution of such Content in such material (with sufficient specificity to allow Linden Lab, in its sole discretion, to identify the relevant Content and materials), Linden Lab will make commercially reasonable efforts to cease its distribution of such Content following the receipt of such notice, although Linden Lab cannot provide any assurances regarding materials produced or distributed prior to the receipt of such notice;

3.3 Linden Lab retains ownership of the account and related data, regardless of intellectual property rights you may have in content you create or otherwise own.

You agree that even though you may retain certain copyright or other intellectual property rights with respect to Content you create while using the Service, you do not own the account you use to access the Service, nor do you own any data Linden Lab stores on Linden Lab servers (including without limitation any data representing or embodying any or all of your Content). Your intellectual property rights do not confer any rights of access to the Service or any rights to data stored by or on behalf of Linden Lab.
Uvas Umarov
Phone Weasel Advocate
Join date: 8 Feb 2007
Posts: 622
06-03-2007 14:10
That is whats so interesting about this case, it will say whether LL can arbitrarily take away what belongs to you, regardless of what is stated in the TOS.
Iron Perth
Registered User
Join date: 9 Mar 2005
Posts: 802
06-03-2007 18:23
From: John Toonie
Nope, their not, current TOS states they are in no way responcible for data stored on their servers, and when you place anything in sl LL can do what they please with it.


For sure. Hopefully "contract of adhesion" can be applied to that part as well. At least until they give us some way to backup our own data.
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