Classifieds = Gambling

Playing for profit in SecondLife IS a game of chance.

Chance that you out-bid your competition in classifieds...
Chance that the transactions are actually working reliably...
Chance that you might make enough to cover your tier
and classified costs...

If SecondLife is a GAME... then putting money into it
(in the uncertain hopes of making a profit) IS GAMBLING.

Am I wrong?

Yes.

No the classifieds are a skill game, you have to know when they won't be searching the body of the classified ad for search words and adjust your title in a skillful and timely fashion

Very.

I think theres a huge difference than in planned advertising and strait gambling. I know I never get the urge to buy just one more classified because I might hit it big this time.

Many (likely most) people classify SecondLife as a GAME.


Residents pretend to do things that have legitimate analogs in Real Life.

It's still paying to play a game for uncertain profit.

If paying to play a game that sometimes pays back isn't gambling... then what is it?

Arcade games could give free credits, but they couldn't pay out money from other players because that would cross a line and be considered a gambling machine.

What makes SecondLife so special that it's exempt?

Uh, enough with the "everything=gambling?" and "is flying next to be banned?" threads.

Most of these arguements are trying to be "out of the box thinking" but it's more like "out of the realm of logic ranting".

Those people would be wrong. SL is a platform. Unstable, buggy, hard to use but a platform for all its faults.

Why?

Well, a game has built-in goals and artificial obsticals, see. If you sit in a new sim in SL it's easy to see that there are no goals and no obsticals to those goals, just a set of tools and a "virtual place" in which to use them.

Yes, people play with and in SL. People also play with and in slandlots, it does not make a sandlot a game.

People play with and in the "web", it doens't make your web browser or HTTP server a game, either.

fwiw:

Gambling (from m-w.com)

definition 1a: to play a game for money or property

Totally agree with this one.

/me rolls eyes and sighs

What Ms Nerd said.......

you are incorrect, Sir

when i buy google keywords to advertise my site, is that gambling?

Nope, its marketing.

I agree in that I don't believe that SecondLife is a 'game' any more than you do. LL said it's a platform. (I've had a SL != Game like comment in my sig for a while now).

Unfortunately, wrong or not, the majority does't see it that way... and those that enforce the law will likely side with them, not us or LL.

Money goes in at one side, bizarre stuff happens bound by an even more bizarre and open ended set of rules, sometimes money comes out, more often money goes to LL (the house) or other residents (aka players).

This is one of the core reasons why nearly every MMO out there forbids goldfarmers/sellers... those that do allow RL money to influence game play do so only by granting non-exportable/sellable in-world content. They're simply too chicken to brave the inevitable accusations that paying to play a maybe-profitable GAME = gambling.

It's always rather amazed me that LL had the balls to attempt it.

Were it to go to court, the argument would be over the definition. The definition of game, legally speaking in terms of gambling, simply does not fit SL. I think LL would win, never mind "most people".

Thank goodness such things aren't a matter of votes.

Business. Every business is a gamble, investment versus profit.

Trying to login is a gamble

I wish I shared your confidence in the U.S. judicial branch.

Goal: To have fun and earn money making working in-world products that people enjoy.

Artificial Obsticals: Grid crashes, permissions problems, script exploits, general instability, copybot, etc, etc.





.

Those aren't obsticals, they are features that prevent SL from being boring

I want to agree with you...

But in many/most cases it is probably fair to say that it is "simulated business" not real business, particularly when that business is conducted entirely under the rules of and within the realm of SecondLife.

How can it be real business? Real business is regulated by real laws, and are affected by real taxes.

Business in SecondLife is governed by whatever LL dictates/tolerates.

I rather doubt that real law will protect virtual business...
particularly when virtual businesses don't pay real taxes.

(granted some fortunate and talented residents may be reporting income)

Which is why I'm fairly certain that what goes on within SecondLife is going to be treated as a game, not business, by RL courts.

Says who?

Yes yes, ... some people likely report their SecondLife income. (I edited a line into my last post moments before I saw your reply, honest!)

Some people may even have their RL business tangled up with SecondLife virtual ventures... fine.

But...

Pretending to have a real business within secondlife without going through the process of officially establishing that business in real life under the law can still be profitable.

However, it's not real business, it's playing a game for profit, which is gambling.
And there's no telling how many people in SecondLife are engaged in gambling instead of business.

Actually, no, it isn't.

Or do professional sports players gamble now?

There are significant differences between:

"Being paid to play a game"

and

"Playing a game for money or property"

Yup.

About as significant as "earning money through skill" and "gambling", come to think of it...

Just checking in...and yup this thread is still stupid.

The difference between gambling and risky investment is a combination of chance (random numbers vs. potential consequences of actions of yourself and others) and the fact that you don't actually work for anything in gambling. Investment requires some amount of hustling at different levels to make it happen.

Gambling:

"I am going to take this $1000.00 and go to Las Vegas to double it through Roulette, Craps and Poker...all most likely rigged by the owners of the casinos."

Investing:

"I am going to take this $1000.00 and give it to this guy with an idea because I believe in it, have looked at a lot of information on the market and his business plan and think it could work. We have an agreement as to the return that I will get if it's a success. There are possible unforseeable events that could occur to derail his/her business plan and I could end up without getting any money back."

That's the difference. No conjecture. No "what if 6 was 9?" bullshit.

SL is a platform for games and entertainment and therefore a ridiculously risky investment as I have said before (and gotten practically lynched for) but trying to compare it to actual gambling is a silly, juvenile attempt at deconstructionism.