Copybot of my Horses? How to tell?

I am the designer seller of the AKK horses at the AKK Horse Island Ranch. My partner and I were alerted to someone passing LM's and IM's to guests and potential customers about cheaper horses that looked the same. Since cons were recently working the area, we followed up the LM..and found near Exact copies of my horses for sale, prim for prim, placement per placement, all with anothers name and brand on them. He claims he created each prim himself and was inspired by mine..I am NOT flattered!!
Can a copy bot prim have a creators name on it?
They are apparent duplicates in every prim, though a different saddle (from anothers horse build ?) and the wings from the free inventory pegasas for some.
What can be done?? It has been reported via abuse report to lindens already.
Even if I can outdo the creation it took me a year to build, and him less than one month in sl to start selling, is there anything to keep him from copying my further attempts???

are they modify? because that would be how he did it

copybot (well its not called that anymore its a different thing now but its does the same thing) does textures


if its the prims your talking about he would have had to either duplicate them by just looking at the prims or by using the modify to get exact measurements

In either case if they are exact duplicates you have to file a dmca notice with Linden labs.

If they're mod, I'd blame a prim mirror. That's why none of my stuff is mod.

didnt LLAbs stop that script from being allowed to run?

When my legitimately purchased copies of Starax's nifty seagulls went spinning wildly due to a update bork on the rotation script inside them, I was terribly sad, living on the waterfront as I do. Since I was under the assumption that Starax wouldnt be back anytime soon to help with fixing yet another LL issue with one of his creations, I set about making my own copies of the seagulls.

It wasn't really that hard to do... I laid my prims directly over his and twisted til they looked right. Then I went on the internet and found what I believe are exactly the same textures he may have used on his seagulls. The results were far better then I might have been able to make just thinking a seagull out of my head.

I didn't need copybot, I just needed the original seagull. I don't sell the seagulls, coz, well, I don't actually think of them as my creation, but...

The guy on the city street corner selling Gucci knock-off handbags didn't need copybot either...
Those fake Rolex watchs you can get at fleamarkets weren't created with copybot...

If you create, you leave yourself open for others to imitate you, whether you are flattered by it or not. The better you are at creating, the more likely this is to occur.

If you feel you have a copyright violation issue with one of your creations, here is the link for more information of what to do about it.

http://secondlife.com/corporate/dmca.php

yes mine are mod, and explains why his are not .and partner too believes it was a 'mirror' effort..I don't know how to tell, but will accept that. They are so identical that one must be laid over the other to find the slightest difference except for his brand..even I cannot tell otherwise without examination.
Thank you very much for answers and for a direction to turn.

Copybot is not a script. It's a third-party, reverse engineered client that logs in using a provided avatar name and password. It has evolved since all the controversy last November and it wouldn't be difficult for a person with the source code to compile a workable version (of the original) again.

In a word, no. Copybot isn't - as so many seem to believe - an LSL script, but a Windows executable (exe) application that logs in using the avatar details (and password) provided. By sending a very simple command to the logged-in copybot avatar, you can get it to turn itself into a clone of any nearby avatar. That means, its shape, animations, skin, clothes, and attachments, etc. are mimicked. If somebody was to 'wear' a prefab or a vehicle for example, it would be copied just as it was prim hair or a shoe. You would then tell copybot to log out, before logging back in using the avatar name copybot used (you still with me? ) only to find the copied items in the inventory. Because the copybot avatar technically created these copies (it intercepted the prim data and used it to create identical builds), it would be listed as the original creator, not the person who really created it first...days, weeks, months or years previously.

Copybot did have limitations, and a search of the forum should reveal many of them. It couldn't copy scripts, the clothes it copied tended to be 'baked' awkwardly and unusable as separates, animations weren't copied to inventory but limited to the session during which copybot was logged in, etc., etc.

Sorry to hear what happened to you, I just thought I'd try to explain how copybot worked back when all the controversy was underway.

If the object is mod, you can drop a script into it. The script then just has to do llGetPrimitiveParms a few times then do the equivalent llSetPrimitiveParms. It can't get the textures, but it can get the shapes.

There isn't really any way to stop it from running if the object is mod.

If someone has stolen your work, and is profiting, and is harming *you*...

You sue them. Lindens might cooperate, but they will not act. They have no standing in the issue.

its so easy to exploit the modify button its not funny it kinda sucks but remove modify rights from your prim stuff it seems to be more common now but yeah you dont even need to use mirror if your careful about ityou can see everything seen houses furniture well a lot of stuff is around using this method via modify

if its identical you can probably have it taken down with the dmca notice. Unless modify is necessary for the functioning of the item remove it if people can manage without it. Its something i have started doing although i didn't want to remove modify rights I didn't want the hassle of finding people copying my object made of prims using this method.

FWIW Kristivon, I and friends of mine have purchased directly from your ranch and thoroughly enjoy your product.

Do you know if this other party has the same scripts running the animations? I will say, you have a wonderful looking product, but for me - the animations and other effects are the best selling point for your horses.

If all else fails, perhaps pressing your marketing scheme to highlight your "internals" compared to "surface appearance" will keep the business coming in.
(I know that doesn't help the present problem, but I'd hate to see you lose business)


In either case, I have been recommending your ranch to folks who ask about my mount, and will continue to do so.

prim mirror does not run anymore no?





prim mirror is a script not a bot you just put it in the contents folder of the script and it copies the prim params

and i have no idea if LL stopped it running, i have one somewhere ill have to try it

ah, i owe Usaki an apology. i only just noticed he changed the subject line to say prim mirror (from copybot)...and now I see exactly which post he was referring to. Sorry dude.

One of my horses is from your ranch too, I got him after seeing someone else's who came from there! I just gotta say i'm lovin it & everyone who's met the horse falls in love! Thanks i'm sure i'll be back for another from you

There is the Legitimate Prim Mirror... that runs flawlessly (with some limitations).
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The Legit "Prim Mirror" (aka "Flip Script" worked fine as of yesterday. (I use it regularly in symmetrical building).

--

There is "at least one" variation on this concept, that can generate duplicate prims if an object is mod but no copy. (saw someone running it one day in a sandbox.. grabbed a snapshot)




The version used for IP theft was working as of Nov 22, 2006... when I saw (and reported to the object's creator) that fellow using it. I don't have an instance of that script in order to be able to tell if it continues to work today.

The problem is, LL may have stopped/deleted a particular instance of the script.. but it isn't rocket science to build another one.

Winter explained this better .............Thank You winter

Unlikely. Like any tool, it has significant non-infringing uses as well as infringing ones. You fix it by punishing those who use it illegally, not by denying someone a legitimate use for a legitimate tool.

I also have an automated prim "mirror" system, which has a "copy" mode as well, which I use as a tool. I don't use it to copy anything I don't have permission to copy from the legitimate owner (though I only use "copy" mode to demonstrate it to the owner for educational purposes). It isn't for sale, either.

I realize that. As I say, there was ONE instance of the script, I beleive.. which LL did in fact delete from the system. This was Aaaaages ago, and as I recall it was the "first version" of the Prim Mirror script I linked earlier. That one was quickly (and rather publicly) discovered to be able to make full perm copies of no-copy objects. The script was quickly removed from the forums, and edited to alter that behaviour. (that's why the Prim Mirror script only "flips" and can't "copy AND flip"... due to an LSL limitation in generating prims via a script).



As I say, this can fairly easily be worked around.. and as my scripting abilities grow I now see that a prim-copier tool.... miraculous to my eyes 6 months ago, is actually FAR easier to acheive than a "Prim Mirror".

No, Copybot could copy any build prim for prim (and textures too), it just could not take the script inside. This is why there was such an uproar.

Im guessing the thing you`re referring to is GLintercept and that, and or varients of it, have been around SL a long time.

Wouldnt need a fancy bot. You said it was 'near perfect'. Sounds like it could just be a prim craftsman. A horse is a horse of course of course, sooo perhaps he was 'inspired' by your talents as a horse designer to make his own horse. Your horses are very good, in fact I own a few and have bought them as gifts. Thing is, your gonna find common ground in any horse design. Four legs, a tail, a horsey head. How much deviation can you get between horse designs? Dunno. Could he have shortcutted and just copied your math exam? Well, that wouldnt be very proper. Im sure it took you awhile to figure out just how far you had to squish that sphere to come up with a decent shoulder. Its the same thing with those plastic flying discs you throw around at the beach. Whammo came out with the Frisbee and a month later Blammo showed up with the whoopee saucer. Of course, the Frisbee is made of better plastic and has nicer decals, but it also costs three bucks more. So folks on a budget may buy a crappy disc instead of a Frisbee. Cant prevent somebody from copying your goods by hand, you simply have to put out a better product than them. The biggest suck factor here is that the bastards showed up at your place and were handing out landmarks and flyers to this rip off store. Now THAT would really tick me off. Thats an insideous business practise. Hope you banned em. All you can do is advertise the fact that you make a superior product, and back that statement up with quality goods.

Thank you all for nice words and information..I did not realize this topic had been added to, and so well. Some of you I remember for one reason or another, one of whom made me laugh enough to write it up in your profile. /waves*
I am a bit of a recluse in both worlds, keeping to myself, and generally non-aggressive on my own behalf, though may rage in support of others. Nor am I one to ask for help as a rule..but need it now, and have little choice but to rely on the help of others. They often call an artists creations Children of the Mind...I did not realize how protective I could feel of them. To protect them, I need all the help I can get.

I'll attempt to respond to a few things asked or written in some of the posts above. Your words are good winter, though my view and use of them are in a different context, perhaps because I have a maternal as well as an artistic view of the topic at hand.

Our horses and some 600 lines of script took 2 people over a year create to this point, so its likely the month it all took to 'recreate" them was done with the same amount of artistic imagination and inspiration as it takes to 'recreate' any other well known piece of saleable art and attach a new creators name to it.
It does not take much of a prim craftman to copy the numbers shown in the size/rotation window of the edit object box..or to line them up on the original product.
It does take ethics and common decency Not to.
I have terrific respect for a true artist and prim master, one that can be told 'make a Racoon' and they do it..without having to rely on the prims of another to find the correct type size and placement. Starax was a true artist and a prim master..and provided the inspiration to this person for wings, taken from the free Pegasus he left us.
Although a horse is a horse....ask a room of 500 artists to draw one: all will have ears four legs and a tail.... and no two artists will have the same 4 lines used in the same spot, of the same length, and same thickness, without some (word choice here) having snuck in with tracing paper after hours.
Until now, the horses of sl have all been Very Very different..suddenly two have all of the same lines in the same places of the same length and the same thickness from the same prim type set in the same way with the same proportions.

Yes, that avatar is banned from the ranch, and 42 other sims that I know of..some in support of myself (and all artists) , some by people with their own creations that do not wish to provide him further 'inspiration'.
Hopefully they have closed the barn doors before their barns have been ransacked.

At least my partner and I have the true talents it takes to improve upon our own product. Yes, ours are still the superior, since the scripts were designed to work smoothly as a whole, with a mod horse, to make it fit for a knight or a child, changing size colors textures and attachments to better fit the fantasy of the buyers whim. I didn't and don't want to take that ability away from the people who do such incredibly wonderful and creative things to them!! (ok, so some do also make me cringe).
One of my hopes was that new cottage industries would be created because of them, with people offering services such as making armor, saddles, saddlebags, ribbons and parade decorations and offering these things to AKK customers, to either add themselves, or with mod rights, to do it for them. But the horses must be remain copy/mod for that to work.

I'd understood that the powers that be would keep this from happening. Since I am still waiting for a bunch of official stuff to be answered, I still have hope that this will not be allowed by either the artists/residents of sl, or by the lindens.

Thank you all again for any words or information you have, though I don't know when I might see additions to this..I've Much to do both inworld and out.
Enjoy your lives.