Rent or buy land?

I noticed renting is very cheap compared to buying on Mainland.
It seems the rental fees are lower or equal per month than the fees that LL charge.
Why is that?
It would mean that it's not a profitable business to own land, unless the land prices rise substantially in the future.

it means that the mainland is that overpriced right now. Not only is it cheaper you also have less lag and more control on an island. Also, I wouldn't personally invest anything in mainland right now because it's a sellers market and not a buyers market. If land goes down (and probably will some) you will loose value. I would recommend renting at least till mainland prices stabalize.

If people will quit paying the outrageous mainland prices they will go down because the sellers will not continue to hold on to land that costs them tier and that they can't sell.

I would much rather own land than rent.

If the "landlord" decides, for ANY reason, that they don't want you there, they can kick you out and not refund your money. Even if this is on the first day you rent. The Lindens will support them in this. There have been cases of unsrupulous landlords bilking people out of lots of money this way.

Also, if the owner folds up shop or gets banned or for whatever reason no longer owns the land, it's bye-bye to your house/business. Again with no refund, and no recourse to get your lindens back.

If you buy the land, as long as you pay your tier and don't get banned from SL the property is yours.

You also have far fewer possibilities of restrictions on what you can do with/put on your land when you buy. If you do choose to rent, make sure you read and understand every word of the convenant attached to it, or any agreement you make with the owner. Some of them are very picky about their rules, and many will say "only residential" or "only business".

Renting is an "at your own risk" proposition. You are at the complete mercy of the owner. I prefer not to take that risk. I'll wait until I can afford to buy.

Serenarra, have you ever rented on a private island?

Other than just the price issues.....

1. Mainland is MUCH more laggy.
2. There is no zoning options at all on mainland. On some islands yes, there is zoning and on others there is NO zoning (just like mainland).
3. If you "buy" land you not only pay HIGH initial fees, you are STUCK with it until you find a buyer. Then you have two options. Either sell the land at a loss OR wait and pay tier till someone buys it. The price that land is right now you will be hard pressed to get your money out of mainland. If you rent for basically the same as LL tier you are only paying the tier and NOT the big down payment.
4. As long as you find a covenant you agree too and find an island that is owned by people with a good reputation that has been in SL what are you so worried about??

If you have specifically had bad experiences with island owners then say where so everyone can benefit.

I personally lived exclusively on the mainland. Bought and sold a LOT of land (I was an ex-land baron). When prices jumped to to these ridiculous rates I sold all my mainland (except only one commercial lot with high traffic) and moved to a private sim for my commercial endeavors and a different one for my residential house. I did my research and found the perfect land and covenants that fit what I needed and both land lords were awesome. I loved it! I loved it so much that now I have my own PI.

For people that are still trying to decide:

DO: Be sure to look at both sides, do some research and consider all the pros and cons.

DON'T: Get frustrated and throw away a LOT of money on the first thing you see or leave out options because of the views of one individual. That individual could be a newbie like you.

Got to say it one more time:

You don't get stipend if you pay tier to a landlord.

And other advantages of mainland: you can resell it without hassle, and you are in charge of it, you don't need to wait for your landlord to deed objects or change terrain.

Right now the jacked cost of mainland land is the only thing affecting the financials, but factor the total cost of ownership in either rental or mainland purchase cases, say over a 1 year period. You buy the land, you pay LL tier, but you get a premium signing bonus and a stipend. Factor that against you buy the land from a 3rd party, you pay them tier, they place rules on you, require you to depend on them, and when it is time to resell -- good luck. You want to convert your land to a store? Good luck.

You get 512m first land, although it is being snapped up quickly. Want more than 512m? Get together with a "friend", and group for 1024 (plus 10% group bonus = 1152). You get the stipend, the signup bonuses etc.

Look at the total cost of ownership, everything, assuming that you play for 1 year. Land prices are jacked now, skewing things a bit, but traditionally owning has been a much better deal when everything is factored in.

Oh, and to the poster who mentioned lag: build in the sky, and don't buy land in the same sim as a busy club. Lag will be minimal.

One last thing: if you consider owning mainland land with a premium account, and look at a 1 year period, annual membership is sooo much cheaper. In fact, when you factor in the stipend and signing bonus, annual membership (with its 512m tier) is basically free. No landlord will give you that deal no matter how hard you look. With a "friend", you can go beyond 512m too.

As a side note those who wonder why Linden lowered stipends for new accounts can see it in the math. As an old member, Linden PAYS ME $18 U.S. per year to be a premium member, and throws in 512m basic tier to boot.

The stipend rate for new sign-ups is much lower, but still brings you pretty close to break-even with an annual membership.

Do the math. Always do the math

I am a Premium member so I get my stipend, but I choose to rent because the quality of the island I live is important to me. My rent for the size space I have is the same as it would be for tier if I was to buy.

The island has been beautifully designed and landscaped, friendly neighbours etc. Very Low lag.

No intial purchase cost required so i don't have to worry about land values or having to sell it I want to move.

Fortunately when I bought my premium membership I choose to pay Yearly. I may change off this at the end of my first year if my $6 per month will buy me more L$ per month than I recieve in stipend.

So basically it costs me the same amount to rent as it would to pay tier on land of the same size, but with no intial outlay. Why should i bother buying?

To terra-form? Open shop? Start group?
A friend has offered me free residence on his private island. Very barren and sandy at the moment. I'm fond of my little house on a green hillside on mainland. I enjoy the neighbours and tourists popping by.
Just my humble opinion

Hmm, a heck of a lot of island rentals listed in the Search index want you to 'buy' the land in the first place and if you look a good few of those 'buying' prices are comparable to mainland ones.

Not sure why that is - I know two people who have 'bought' island land, then had the island owner take it from them with no refund for that initial price (one island owner left SL, one decided to use her island for something else).

I realise there is a lot of island owners who bought the island just to rent it for a profit and they are trying to get their initial purchase price back too. But that is the bit that would put me off renting from an island owner. The tier is good, yes, but that up front 'buying' price? No thanks.

So in otherwords and in answer to the original poster.. it depends on what you want to do with your land.

If you need full control over it, terra forming etc.. then buy ( although my landlord will make modifications for me if necessary).

It is still possible to rent commercial spaces on islands as well I believed (although I don't know if that is anymore expensive than renting residential spaces).

What renting does provide you with is, providing you find a covenant that suits you, is that all the other neighbours will have to abide by the same rules, so you won't find garish signs notices, junk etc scattered around the land next to you as your neighbours will have to build according to the islands rules.

I must admit I am thinking about setting up a shop. and if I do I will probably just buy a 512 plot (no tier to pay is I still won't have used my initial 512 allowed on my premium account), and start small and simply to see if its worth buying extra land.

So anyway.. back to the original again... it depends on what you want to do with the land.

Don't confuse buying from a private sim owner and renting. In the first case, you are buying just the same way as you are on the mainland, only you pay tier to your landlord, not to Linden. You can sell on the land. With true renting there is NO upfront fee, just your monthly rent.

For a large plot, renting is usually cheaper than anything else. If you rent from someone reputable you should have no problems. Equally with buying on a private sim; for any of the big landowners it would be commercial suicide to screw folk around.

This is true, but in reality what difference does this really make? you can rent and not pay an upfront fee, or buy it for a good sum of money - still pay a monthly fee - and then probably recoup the money you initially spent when you sell it on. So on the whole there is basically very little difference.

Absolutely false. Stipend has NOTHING to do with where you own land, or even owning land AT ALL. Premium (or Paid basic from prior to the loss of stipend for Basic) users get the same stipend regardless of land ownership. My Partner has an account that is Premium, and which owns no land at all, and still gets their stipend. I am Paid Basic from over a year ago, when such accounts still got a tiny stipend. I own 4096 M2 on a private island, and I still get my weekly stipend.

This is true. If you own land directly, you control that land more fully. However, land on private islands also offers a MUCH wider terraform range. +/- 100 M usually, as opposed to +/- 4M on mainland parcels.

Again, this is a completely false assumption on stipend. Yes, it can be harder to sell land purchased on some private islands. But the cost is NOT linked to stipend issues.

Personally, I prefer the better zoning and more aggressive protections against griefers and land scammers on private islands. Very few private island owners will passively stand by while a griefer runs amok in their sim. Virtually NO private island owner will allow some land extortionist to devalue properties by buying tiny land parcels and placing highly annoying content on them, then charging extortion prices to buy the tiny parcel and get rid of it.

Bear in mind also that the Lindens are just as capable fo evicting a tenant for NO CAUSE as any private island owner. Read the TOS. LL reserves the right, explicitly, to take any assets at any time, without compensation.

When you buy from a private island owner, you certainly ARE subject to an elevated risk if they fail in their own financial commitments to the sim. I have lost land before because a sim was sold, or have found my land to be worth less because of some sim-owner action. But in the long run, IF you are careful who you deal with, I still think private islands are MUCH nicer places to live.

LL won't recognize you as the owner of a parcel on a private sim, nor can you use any existing tier towards private sim land so it is nothing at all like buying land on the mainland. Reselling private sim land is also entirely dependant on the whim of the sim owner, whereas LL isn't suddenly going to restrict anyone from reselling mainland.

I rent two private sim parcels; I paid nothing for the land, yet I'm still listed as the "owner" in About Land. The only real difference between "owning" private sim land and "renting" private sim land is that someone who didn't know better is out more money, there is no practical difference between the two.

Wow, this post is FULL of outright misleading info. Obviously you are a newbie or a land baron on the mainland trying to mislead newbies. Stipend has NOTHING to do with land. If you are premium customer you get a stipend...PERIOD!

My quess is that you are a newbie land baron who has never lived on a PI yourself so you have no idea what you are even talking about.



If you buy or rent island land you are also in charge of it. If you buy private island land you can resell it without a hassle and depending on the covenant...and in most cases...you don't have to wait for the landlord to deed anything to you. On my island all you do is click "buy" to put a deposit on the land. You then have 24 hours to pay the rent box (right in plain sight) and then you get your deposit back in full. As soon as you click "buy" on the land (to pay the deposit) the land is imediately deeded to you (or your group if you buy for group) just as it is on mainland. Also on my island you have full terraform rights on the land.



Again, this is misleading. First, if you buy mainland right now at a ridiulously high 15/sq,m or more you are risking that the bottom of the land market will fall out because it's so high right now. Then you will be stuck with it and pay tier or sell it for less and take a loss. Now, if you just happen to find mainland at a REALLY good deal (before a land baron snaps it up) you might sell it and make a profit...but keep this in mind, land barons pay high tier levels so they can buy and sell land....then they can "sit" on a small plot of 4000 or smaller for awhile...no big deal.....however, most normal residents would not want to pay money for nothing and "sit" on a piece of land they can't sell.

Ok, so you want to convert your land to a store then find an island with a covenant that says it's commercial and residential....they're LOTS of them out there. Or, find a private island that says in the covenant that it's no zoning....that means it's just like mainland. You can put on it what you want to put on it. A good example of this kind of island is Anshe Chungs "Anarachy" sims. Those sims are no zoning and all it says in the covenant is that you have to go by the normal LL ToS. There are also other no zoning islands out there....but that was just one i knew off the top of my head.





Groups also apply to private islands. Have a group? Ok, fine .... buy or rent island land as a group. Most landlords are resonable...sure, some are not ...but most are. And as long as you are a good resident and pay your tier they will be willing to do just about anything to "work out" things for you or your group.

Hmmm, I would agree that cost of ownership was fine on the mainland about two months ago when land was about 5/sq.m .... but now.....15/sq.m and HIGHER??! Uhhh...no. It's not better. You don't "OWN" any land in SL.....at all. You pay tier ....that means you're leasing the land reguardless. If you pay an big upfront fee for the land because you "THINK" you're buying it...think again. You don't own the land.

Oh and as far as lag. Yeah, skyboxes "help" lag a "little". But you are STILL in the same SIM even if you are 700 meters in the sky. The SIM's resources are still being used...and drained and abused by the other people/clubs/camping chairs etc.. that exist in the same sim. Sure, you could buy land in a sim thats not "busy"....but guess what....tomorrow someone might buy the land beside you and build a casino....i've seen it happen a MILLION TIMES. Now, if lag is what you're worried about and you want a nice peaceful peace of land then you DO want a covenant. One that says that it's a residential only sim.


Darius, maybe you should get better aquainted with all the aspects of land in SL yourself

I think whether you buy or rent depends on what you want the land for, and whether you wish to have a premium account.

If you don't want to pay for premium, renting is the only way to go (literally).

If you don't mind paying premium, I think buying is best. Here's why. I worked out what it cost me in Lindens to own my land (based on tier only) based on current Lindex transactions and it worked out to 650L per 512 per month. Now, I can't add, lol, but I think my math is right.

If you bought a 512 even at the inflated price of say $10,000L, you have no tier if you only hold 512. So, if you were to rent that 512 for $650L per month (which you probably won't find), in 15 months, you would have paid the same for the parcel.

That's why I bought. I charge $1,000 per 512 rent. So, in ten months, you could own my parcel even at inflated rates and you know that what you put on it will (generally) be there until the Lindens call it quits. Land management is much easier, IMO, if you own.

There are pros and cons either way. If you are looking to buy, I'd go mainland simply for the security of your investment. If you're going to rent, I'd go for the best bang for my buck, and get a written lease agreement (though it may not be worth much, it may help out down the line if you're ripped off, and then again, it may not).

If you want a place to live / play / build, then I'd suggest to buy and not worry if the land falls in value.

I have a total of 512m (448m plus 2 x 32m which I'm trying to sell!)

I think the land market is on the turn as I am surrounded by decent looking 512m sale plots at around 9000 L$, none of which have sold. Also my 32m plots have stuck even though I have lowered the price to about what i paid for them.

Up until a week or two ago I was buying small plots and selling then on at profit (on a small scale) as I worked my way up 'organically' to 512m. It seems to have changed all of a sudden.

There was that 'do not buy land' campaign, to which the best response would be
for sellers to take land off sale!

People its simple
BOTH mainland and Islands have their uses and benefits

Islands are much better homes in general and DEF alot less lag, you will NEVER be locked out of your land when you are on a private residential island and on MOST islands you will have ZERO UPFRONT COSTS in regards to a purchase price.

Service is normally alot better on a private island as well.

IF you WANT Chaos, IF you want the ability to live with ZERO rules, IF you want to "invest" in Land ( to probally Lose money at the grossly over inflated prices ), if you want to be locked out of your own land becasue of a club or casino, by all means get mainland land.

regardless everyone has their own thoughts and beliefs on teh subject.
YOU as someone looking for some land to call your own need to figure what YOU want

If you just want a nice quiet low lag sim to call home then check out islands You will have some rules to abide by that is true BUt those rules apply to everyone in order to make a better environment. I know most island owners, myself included have made residential sims AND commercial Sims, my residentials get free or discounted commercial space so in many ways, they get their home in a no lag environment AND they have a store for their commercial ventures but the bottom line is this:

TALK to the people who live there.
Get THEIR Opinions. You should research an island owner if you choose islands. IF you choose to buy Mainland land, then you have no rules AND you have no say in what your neighbors do either

Stipends are much higher for a paid premium account than a basic account. I'm not sure how it can be clearer. That same account provides 512m tier. Again, very clear. So if you look at the total financial outlay over a one-year period having a premium account and grouping with "friends" with premium accounts clearly and unequivocally is cheaper. I'm not sure what more is required than adding up the numbers. Sure you can have a premium account and get the stipend, but you are just throwing away 512m of tier.

And as for Lindens evicting tenants? What are the likelyhood of Lindens getting bored and leaving the game for months at a time when you want to deed a radio or change terrain? The fact is LL will not evict anyone without cause. And private island owners can and do. And me, I want a private space to share with friends and a shop. On the mainland, I'm in control.

Let's try this another way: why is Anshe Chung a millionaire? Because she understands the math. It all boils down to the math. Do the math, I am right.

My other recommendation for people? Decide whether you actually need land, especially at this point. I have had friends who have bought 2048 for a home, then realize unless you regularly entertain people (meaning the equivalent of a private club), there is no reason to have a home. The more common model I see is small groups (2-3 people) who share and personalize a common space. Perhaps trying a month-to-month rental in this case will help you decide if you want/need one (IMHO the only reason renting is merited). If you decide land is for you, then buy (ideally first land).

And perhaps wait for the impending, inevitable land price bubble to burst. It will burst: unlike land in Los Angeles (where I live), more land is being manufactured every day by Linden Labs; virtual land does not have intrinsic value like real land. LL adds 2-5 sims per day on the mainland, and for a guess not to many people want any but first land at the current price. With great justice the market WILL correct, and current land speculators will lose bigtime money (hint: if you are a speculator, get out NOW!).

Bottom line: math always works; quantification is immune to debate or argument. Those who don't do the math in RL or SL always will end up enriching those who do do the math.

So as a newbie... If I understand correctly - you are both 'virtually' correct. The stipend continues - physically. It's just that the costs associated with some options effectively negates the stipend.

Stipend has nothing to do with land ownership. It's not a factor of whether or not someone should "buy" land on a private island versus buying on mainland.

The points to consider are:

1. First and foremost, what do you intend to do with the land?
2. Stemming from 1, how much control over the land do you need?
3. Do you care about zoning? Also related to 1.
4. How much is the upfront cost and are you willing to wait to recoup your costs?
5. How much is the tier fee for the Island? Is it equal to, higher, or significantly higher than LL land tier?
6. Do you have to pay someone else via PayPal or in Linden?

My friend, I do not wish to get into a flame war. You can accept or reject my premise: use mathematics, simple arithmetic, to determine what will make more financial sense over a year. You are free to ignore this basic advise. Suggesting I'm a "newbie" or "don't understand land", or "am a land baron" (false, all three) is just rhetoric. Stick to factual discussion.

My suggestion: get together with a "friend", both get annual premium memberships, pay close attention and snap up adjoining first land plots as they become available, group and join the land. The result is that Linden Labs will PAY YOU to own 512/1024(with friend) land (at the current buy rate of L$, just below break even at the sell rate). I'm still trying to understand how private island rentals are a better deal than free, I've never seen a landlord give away land or money.

The current land prices will not last, they will drop, when (and importantly IF) you decide to expand beyond 512m or 1024m. Frankly I learned a lot on a 512m build, and glad of it when I scaled up.

And, completely a different issue, I value my freedom. I do what I want with my land. I don't have to negotiate with the owner, I don't depend on them. And frankly I'm not giving my palpay address to an unknown entity (yes I know LL messed this up, but they learned -- still better chance of privacy than an individual).

Oh, and another quick note: I bought additional tier, and make a modest income from my shop (on my home's property), I convert the L$ to $US on my account and have the tier cost paid that way. Very automatic, very clean, no shuffling accounts. I can have a shop and a home, whatever I want, my rocketship ride, and the whole thing pays for itself and is fully automatic.

But financial aspects is one thing, and the sense of freedom is non-financial and a different issue.

Bottom line even if you hate everything I say: do the math. The math is beyond debate or argument. Even if you are determined to get a private island, do the math to get the best deal (don't be sucked in by "cheap" land, it may have a higher per month cost). Math is not a newbie and math is not a land baron.

Past that, I won't be goaded into a flamefest. You can disagree, but I could not care less if you try and label me. I'm trying to help, like it or not. I'm arguing for math, everything else I'm saying is secondary.

Again, with a premium membership you get a signing bonus, a larger stipend than basic, a gift of first land, AND 512m BASIC TIER. (And with a friend, 2x512m=1024m with 2xstipend and 2xbonus).

My point isn't that stipend is related to land ownership, but Premium Membership most certainly, unequivocally, undebatebly is. No ifs, ands or buts.

Add everything up. Do the math.

OK heres the Math

Premium Account:
Pay per month:
$10

Recieve per month:
$5 worth of free tier
approx $5 worth L$ (approx L$1300)

Recieve one payment:
L$1000


What can I get for $10 per month as a Non-Premium member:
Approx L$2600 per month


So lets say you want 3600sqm of land (I go with this because that is how much I have).

To buy on mainland using Premium account cost are:
Initial Purchase cost of L$36000 (basing it on a conservative, at the moment, L$10 per sqm)
Monthly tier cost of $25 (even with your 512sqm free tier)

To rent on an island:
$25 per month.



So monthly outgoings to buy are $10 for Premium plus $25 tier and you have an initial outlay of L$36000 (about $130) which you may or may not get back depending on what prices are like when you sell.

Whereas with renting from an island you don't have to fork out $130 to get started, you don't have to pay $10 per month to be premium, you just pay the $25 rent per month, and I could buy another $10 per month of lindens and have double the amount of lindens per month that you would recieve in stipend as a Premium membership holder.

Put simply that $ for $ that I put in SL, I get more for my money by not being a Premium member and renting than I would as a Premium member and buying a plt of the same size.

I've done the math. However, the decision to go premium is separate from the issue of buying mainland or "buying" island land. The only reason to go premium from basic at this point, in my opinion, is to get FIRST LAND for 512L - cheap land with no tier fees. And First Land itself isn't a gift - the RIGHT to buy it at 512 is a gift. I wasn't issued a 512 plot when I upgraded. And First Land is inherently mainland. And it's inherently small!

But when UPGRADING to premium is not a factor (having sold first land, for example, or buying more land), then the benefits of premium membership are not relevant to the question of what plot to buy, and AREN'T part of the math.

But the OP doesn't seem to be asking a question about First Land. He is observing that it is generally cheaper to rent than to buy, since the mainland is so grossly overpriced right now. He assumes that land ownership isn't profitable, but his math is incorrect. It is cheaper to buy First Land than it is to Rent, but it is not cheaper to buy mainland for sale than it is to rent. First Land is the crucial difference. You can't do the math appropriately when considering upgrading without considering First Land. And if this person bought (stupidly) a 15k 512 plot, they would lose the right to buy First Land at 512. D'oh!!



And the answer to that is, because the land barons are crazy enough to pay noobs up to 10k for their first land or have escalated the auction sale prices, the prices of mainland have skyrocketed past the point where normal people would be willing to buy, except for those determined to own land NOW NOW NOW or those who are ignorant of how land works. And where many island owners are simply looking to recoup their tier fees (and a little more), it is generally cheaper to "buy" [rent] a lot on an island.