FNSL: "Broadly Offensive"?

As we have been talking about what LL might or might *not* consider to be "broadly offensive"...I keep thinkin about the National Front's presence in SL. There are Neo-Nazi spaces elsewhere too.

If a group owns enough land, unless they have blatant disregard for everything in the TOS, it seems like they are "welcome" to stay, as far as LL is concerned.

What about you? do you think RL Hate Groups should be allowed to "set up shop", in a virtual world that won't even tolerate offensive avatar names?

I say yes. If they stay on their land and spew their venom there, I don't have a problem. An offensive avatar (or group) name is displayed for all to see , wherever you go. So I can see wanting to regulate those.

While I personally find hate based groups repugnant, I believe they have just as much right to set up shop in a virtual world as any other group.

Now if the are harassing other users then they shouldn't be allowed on. But, if all they do is set up shop in an area and do not focus their activities against other residents then they should be allowed to be here.

We allow communists. They murdered over 100 million during the 20th century. I find both communist and socialist thought to be offensive and hateful. Shall we ban groups of that bent as well?

My opinion is as long as they don't start offending anyone, then they can do what they want. I'm guessing though that if they are "setting up shop", then something will be happening sometime down the road.
Until that day though, they are harmless and should be left alone.

Offensive avatar names are used to advertise and offend anyone that reads them...thats the difference in your question.

About 4 days ago, while in RP (Midian) I was confronted with a spooky avi, all black and with only 2 white eyes. Suddenly he triggered a gesture that was a recording of Hitlers voice shouting: "Sieg Heil!!" I was totally taken by surprise and I reported him to the SIM admin and filed an AR. I was so completely p****d off...If on the other hand he'd done that on his own land, I couldn't care less..he'd still be an *ss but at least nobody would see or hear it.

Mandy C

*** I believe they have just as much right to set up shop in a virtual world as any other group. ***

Which is exactly none. SL is a private entity run by Linden Labs. They are not obligated to do business with anyone they don't want to. I'm a card-carrying ACLU member, but there are no "rights" involved here.

Good point! Indeed we're "allowed" here because LL lets us, so they have every right to refuse who they want.

Mandy C

You are right. LL can decide who theywill allow in SL. Barring any LL veto, their presence is of no consequence to me if they are on private land. They can Goosestep and Zeig Heil all they want.

Can we define what we mean by "rights" right now, before this becomes another semantics argument over what we mean by "rights"?

Mickey, we really missed you at yesterday's Parade of Comedy.

Yeah, I had that happen, well actually it was about 6 of em in an Army Jeep or somethin...

Pretty much everybody's opinion echoes the same P.O.V. - If they don't "grief", then let em stay.

The psuedo-Nazis and FN *do* keep to themselves more than just about any other offensive Groups. I guess I *personally* am just annoyed that we have so many restrictions, and the number is growing, yet they can be "safe".

Selfish on my part I guess. *shrugs*

okay - Chris ..

Two Major problems with this statement.

1st off communism is an ideology, it can lead to communist styles of government. Some People who beleived in communism were the ones doing these killings. Not "all communists." Its not a cuase/effect relationship. Plenty of non-communist states have done mass killings, its totalitarianism more than the government ideology thats the more dangerous.

2nd - where does this 100 million number come from? I literally have no clue where you come up with that number, it sounds excessively high. Not to downplay the deaths of Millions of people but I think the number of people killed becuase of the Soviet Union / Easter Europe / Chinese / South East Asian Oppressive communist governments is under 40 million (but well over 20 due to the forced starvation in USSR, would have to research it). Which is still extremely horrible.


The thing about these communist governements is - It was the ideological bent that was embraced by ruthless, desperate people. Many of these were/are violent people as well. This can happens reguardless of the claimed system of government.

in the late 18th century it was democracy/capitalism that was the ideology that was the bent of ruthless, desperate people.

Any concept of government is only as good as those who follow its principles. Communism isnt inherently any more violent than Democracy/Capitalism.

Mao Tse Tung said "Political Power grows out of the barrel of a gun"

When those guns are pointed at both the outside, and their own people - you get tyranny and the potential for violence (like Mao's use)

When those guns are pointed at the outside to protect you, but not at your own people - you get freedom.

No, your points are valid...yet Malcolms points are too. LL will probably do nothing at all as long as they stay quiet.

Mandy C

all moneys is green...

1) This "broadly offensive" business is still at present confined to a blog post, not the ToS. It may never graduate from there.

2) If it DOES, don't expect any sort of reasonable arguments to apply to what is or is not "broadly offensive". It will be decided on the whim of whoever is making the decision at the time, which is why these vague terms get used in the first place. So it's not worth discussing.

Communist ideology is just as offensive as fascist or Nazi ideology. Can you name one communist state that did not gain and hold power through violence?
Any ideology which takes the fruits of the labors from one and gives them to another, using force if needed is evil and offensive.

As for the death toll of the communists, the most commonly cited work, the Black Book of Communism, lists 94 million as being murdered. But other sources place the toll much higher.

http://www.hawaii.edu/powerkills/COM.ART.HTM
http://econ161.berkeley.edu/TCEH/Slouch_power4.html
http://www.victimsofcommunism.org/history_communism.php

*This post comes with a lot of irony involved, I am trying to just prove a point thru a comparison to something more "good" *

Please, take a look at the wikipedia "Genocides in history" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genocides_in_history) entry.

You will notice that the decimation of a group of individuals to provide for another is not new.

Whle you might not agree with the communist ideology, your idea of evil is too broad to beging with.

National Front in SL?

What can I say, I'm very dissapointed, do the lindens not know what these people represent?

we all know the good old Stalin motto

When you kill one, its a tragedy
When you kill a million, it's a statistic

Yeah Stalin killed about 3 times more peoples than Hitler, in one third of the time. But at this time Stalin was the big "friend" .

Not to defend communists but lumping them all in the same boat is not really fair.

If we follow your suggestion then we shouldn't allow Americans either, they have nearly decimated the entire population of Native Americans.

Just as Saddam was some 40 years later. Old habits die hard.

If you force me to work for others against my will you are making me a slave. Slavery is evil. Period. Taking any portion of my labor from me against my will and giving it to someone else is evil. Period.

Maybe the problem is, your idea of evil is too narrow.