Vote Now: Stop Libsecondlife

This vote is up on the vote board, vote for it!

Whereas: Libsecondlife has created and unleashed Copybot and severely damaged the community and credibility of Second Life, and

Whereas: This is not the first monster unleashed by Libsecondlife (huge prims, bots), and

Whereas: Libsecondlife is of no benefit to the SL community, and

Whereas: Linden Labs supports libsecondlife,

We ask that:

1) Linden Labs withdraw support for libsecondlife
2) Linden Labs undertake code changes to secure its content
3) Linden Labs immediately upgrade its protocols to render libsecondlife unworkable in its current form
4) All content either using, or generated by, libsecondlife be removed from the world, and
5) Linden Labs enforce its Terms of Service prohibiting reverse engineering of Second Life, its client and its protocols.

Go here to vote:

https://secondlife.com/vote/

Link please!

I want to see one of those huge prims.





Anyway, I cant vote on anything, im not knowledged enough about all thats going on. I think many others posting are confused as well to a degree.


Frankly I have developed a headache two days in a row now from this chaos. Good thing i`ll be working a concert 3 nights in a row, I need to get away from all of this.

and some people would like to see a really huge prim stuck up the ass of a copybot.

Go here to vote:

https://secondlife.com/vote/

Bump this thread when you can also, and tell everyone you know to vote too. If you have the means to do so, create an advertisement in-world that guides people to the vote.

Use this as a referendum to express your outrage at placing the entertainment of a few hackers above the 99.999% of the rest of us who have made Second Life a part of our lives.

Vote. Get people to vote. Continue the in-world protests and shutdowns. This has gone too far.

Hm...can we get line-item veto on this?

If LibSl contributed nothing to the community, it wouldent be supported by LL.
LibSl has fixed many times more problems then its inadvertantly created. would you have Enstein imprisoned after someone used his theorys to create the atomic bomb?

your list of "demands" is also a pipe dream, and if you read up a little on the bot itself, you'd see why..

2: such code changed would require a radical overhaul of the entire game.
3: again, this woud require a total recoding of the game, and even then, as long as the game remains open source, and uses data packets, this will be impossible to stop.
4: this may be impossible as well, without doing a complete rollback to the hour before all this started.
5: again, this is impossible. nobody anywhere on the net can prevent anyone from reverse enginerring theyre products. you may as well ask the sun to stop shining because it hurts your eyes.

Bump this thread when you can also, and tell everyone you know to vote too. If you have the means to do so, create an advertisement in-world that guides people to the vote.

Use this as a referendum to express your outrage at placing the entertainment of a few hackers above the 99.999% of the rest of us who have made Second Life a part of our lives.

Vote. Get people to vote. Continue the in-world protests and shutdowns.

Lol you are wrong on so many accounts!

1) Einstein's theories had nothing to do with the atomic bomb
2) Wrong, just tweak the protocol to stop their stuff, then with the time create some form of encryption -- cheap and easy
3) Wrong. You don't make games for a living, do you?
4) There might be problems, but try, for God's sake!
5) You can't stop them, but you can really slow them down -- I know, because I've been in this fight on products I've worked on. It is enough to slow them down, that will have the same effect as stopping them.

1) .........wait, what?
2) hahahahahaha! Yeah, cheap and easy. That's encryption. Encryption fixes everything. What do you propose, exactly?
3) No, I don't!
4) Yeah, ok...roll it back. I didnt' do much today.
5) Somebody is making progress towards some task. Stopping them STOPS them. Slowing them down slows their progress. They are still making progress. Slowing them is not the same as stopping them. I mean, honestly....

Oh, and BTW: libsecondlife has ONLY illustrated problems that IT created.

A common misconception. While Einstein did give us E=MC^2, it did not provide any of the theoretical basis for splitting the atom -- Einstein does relate energy to mass, but his theories do not address matter on an atomic level. In fact, Einstein did not much care for quantum physics ("God does not play dice with the universe.". It is the quantum physicists who provided the theoretical basis for the atomic bomb -- starting with Niels Bohr. Einstein gets far too much (undeserved) credit for helping split the atom, when that credit really belongs to several of his contemporaries, quantum physicists.

Releasing the source code to open public didn't "only illustrate" the problem, it basically handed ready to use tool for practical application as well. Difference between demonstration how you can shoot someone and giving out free guns to everyone present after the show is done, if you will.

I wouldn't like libsl banned (since it doesn't really accomplish anything) but i wish people running it had some more common sense and restraint in their desire to show off. It doesn't take rocket scientist to foresee basic consequences like these we're seeing, and it could've been perfectly well avoided.

why don't we stop filesharing and drugs too. just vote and it'll go away

seriously, good luck stopping libsl, even if ll wanted to. it's not really something you or they can control...and for the love of...please please stop the !quit !quit !quit spam every damn place i go to. its not even effective anymore, and despite popular belief, ll is doing what they can, or will be...problem is, they're fighting an impossible battle, and half the userbase mistakenly thinks there's an easy solution being overlooked because "ll hates us all and wants us to suffer".

sorry if i sound angry. i'm sleepeh and this is just... ugh -.-; *goes to bed*

I'll remeber you said that when you go to vote and you notice that the computer that tallies your vote is locked up and controlled by a single corporation that gives no access to its source code. Your vote counts, right?

At least one Linden (Babbage) uses libsecondfile to automate QA testing for (whatever small portion of) SL. If LL has to resort to outside tools for their automated testing, it's presumably because they have nothing in-house to it and it wouldn't otherwise get done.

Other than that:

http://blog.secondlife.com/2006/09/07/exploit-bounty-revision/#comment-2685

I'd have to say that anything that ends a "yes, we know it's there, but who's going to think to do *that* anyway? Let's do something fun instead of fixing it!" mentality on LL's side is a good thing as well.

Cyn's post, however well intended blog post ultimately boils down to "we knew about this, we had plans to add more protection/information for content creators, but we just haven't gotten around to it yet" is just an another aspect of that mentality. A timeline of 3-7 months for this doesn't tell me they were working on it, it tells me it was burried amidst 100 other "To Do" post-it's stuck to someone's monitor and was long forgotten already.

libsecondlife did (or at the least is partly responsible for) unleash the big bad but it was ultimately the community that over-hyped it to such an extent that at this point everyone believes it can do magic tricks and curiousities are peeked all over and neither LL, nor libsecondlife is responsible for that.
The only reason I ever found out about a certain texture ripping program is because there was a thread where everyone (content creators and others alike) was shouting at one another over what is and isn't allowed in fair use with skins. Same thing this time around, and I also found out there are scripts circulating that will create a perfect prim copy of anything that's mod along with its name to make sure anyone willing will find it can.
You can't really blame anyone for releasing something that makes copying something easy and in the meanwhile advertise all the other ways you can do it too.

You can't stop texture theft since ultimately it needs to be displayed on the screen but since most textures are too big anyway, LL might provide a way to downsample each texture to such an extent that there is minimal loss of quality the first time, but reuploading a downsampled texture which would in turn get downsampled again results in ugly visual artifacts. It doesn't stop anyone from ripping textures, but since there's enough quality loss it removes a whole lot of the incentive.
My suggestion for prims probably makes a whole lot less sense since I don't understand how that all works, but I do know that prims are just an abstraction of something more complicated when it comes to 3D objects. We only need to deal with prims when building, when it comes to actually displaying something LL could just send something else (triangles? faces? geometry? not sure how that works ). If anyone's left with 1000 pieces of a puzzle they have to assemble into prims they're not going to care a whole lot either anymore.

I did a rant, but I also at least tried to add something constructive.

I vote AGAINST.
But note please that my vote will not register, which renders all votes registered "for" democratically invalid.

This voting tool is completely inappropriate for this purpose. It cannot provide a "referendum".

LL cannot base any decision on the number of votes here, because there is no opportunity to vote against.

It was designed for assessing the relative enthusiasm for new features, on the (faulty) assumption that all new features are good, just some desired more than others.

This proposition is hysterical. You are asking LL to start exactly the arms race which they describe, which they decline, and which they could not win.

Anyone who votes for this proposal who has a single music track on their hard drive which they have not purchased legally is being hypocritical.

Keep LibSL in the open. Keep it supported. Encourage it to help us design countermeasures for other peoples hacks, as well as their own. We need their skills, and ultimately we will value their products.

Why shouldn't LL try... it's their platform. What about Apple's iTunes? Is Apple made up of a bunch of hysterical crazies who are fighting an impossible war by keeping their protocol closed?

Maybe. But after the real hysteria libSL has caused, I think it would be fitting to close the protocol and make libSL really work at the reverse-engineering. No more handing the protocol on a silver platter. You guys have to bust out Ethereal and sniff-packets and reverse-engineer hidden keys to break encryption, and face a changing authentication process with every release. iTunes does it.

LL could make libSL guys really work their asses off. After they cost LL millions of $$$ by posting that "demo project" code on their website, I don't see why not.

I vote AGAINST.
But note please that my vote will not register, which renders all votes registered "for" democratically invalid.

This voting tool is completely inappropriate for this purpose. A single proposition cannot provide a "referendum".

LL cannot base any decision on the number of votes here, because there is no opportunity to vote against.

It was designed for assessing the relative enthusiasm for new features, on the (faulty) assumption that all new features are good, just some desired more than others.

In any case, LL cannot be governed by referendum. Not on technical matters, where the huge majority of us do not have the technical understanding to judge the full implications or practicality of what we may demand.

This proposition is a case in point. You are asking LL to start exactly the arms race which they describe in the blog, which they decline, and which they could not win.

Anyone who votes for this proposal who has a single music track on their hard drive which they have not purchased legally is being hypocritical. Now we know how musicians feel, and why some decline to record. But fortunately most don't, though we deserve it.

Keep LibSL in the open. Keep it supported. Encourage it to help us design countermeasures for other peoples hacks, as well as their own. We need their skills, and ultimately we will value their products.

We do not need a bunch of privileged residents with special dispensation to break an important part of the ToS going round hacking SL for their own benefit - which is exactly what has happened here.

We have Lindens on the group who should be disciplined or fired for their part in this outrage.

Why is it that Linden Lab considently and repeatedly punish innocent people, and let the guilty ones go free untouched?

Lewis

ok this group that has turned SL upside down has several lindens that belong to the group?
so do lindens support this? I am shocked.

A simple group search and look through the membership list will confirm this.

The group itself has lost what little credibility it had before this. Let's not forget that they are also responsible for the 'huge prim' violation as well, and all the associated problems.

There is no reason whatsoever why this project should be allowed to continue by Linden Lab, let alone officially endorsed. You cannot give a group of residents special privileges to break the ToS (4.2 in this case) and say it's perfectly acceptable just because it has Lindens in the group. Evidently they aren't there on an 'overseeing' capacity.

Reverse engineering, open source and derivative products are full of security risks, and rely on trust and moral standards from all involved. You only need one idiot (or was it two? I don't remember) to breach that and all the possible good that could ever come out of a project is destroyed forever.

Lewis

Libsecondlife is the only one that has fully disclosed their work. There are other companies that have admitted to do similar work but do not disclose their work. Anotherwords, if you shut down libsl, it won't stop these other companies. Why point your finger at lebsecondlife?

Antivirus companies reverse engineer Windows. They do it to protect your system. However, these antivirus companies have the same exact tools and knowledge that the virus makers have. Should you ban all antivirus companies because they have these tools?

Why not consider how much progress has been made and how many security holes have been patched because of such technology like libsl. Would you rather work on an older version of SL that has exploits being taken advantage of without your knowledge at all? I mean, least you know this is possible. Without libsl, you could have continued to make millions with of investmenst into content to be by surprise have everything stolen without your knowledge at all.

But to market the tools against creators. research is fine. I find this absolutely horrible that a group that is responsible for a HUGE number of clubs/stores and more being closed has lindens in. Linden for once take responsiblity. You are now part of the problem. Everyone should keep on Lindens until they do take responsiblity. It's time for a Wake up Call.

from libsecondlife:



http://www.libsecondlife.org/content/view/12/28/