TOS and Mentioning AV Names In Forum?

Can someone point me to the TOS and section where
it states that one cannot (should not?) mention an AV
name in this forum?

Thanks!

- Infrared

This is what I found:

Guidelines (the link across the top, inbetween UserCP and New Posts)

/invalid_link.html < - Jeez, can't get it to work

Is that really not allowed? If I wanted to boast about a particular designer or builder...I'm not allowed to mention their full AV name?

EDIT: after reading the quote above, I gather we are not allowed to "slander"--this is understandable, however, there are intelligent ways to state your "opinion." Keep that in mind.

To my knowlege, there is no SL TOS section that covers 'naming names' in the forum. However, it is touched on in the forum guidelines, and those are the rules the forum moderators enforce.

For the most part, you're free to name names in a positive light. If its naming names in a negative light, the mods prefer its not done in the 'Official' SL forums, and instead left for 3rd party forums.

Why would they possibly not want us to negatively name names?

Check this thread for one reason why it has its pitfalls:

/327/d2/196811/1.html

Thanks Viridian and Travis.

First of all the forum FAQ is not a TOS. It is a set of forum guidelines.
I just read it.

My interest is that I frequently see a comment something like this: "it's
against the TOS to mention a name of an AV, so you should remove
it from your post"....

Personally I've never needed to mention an AV name, unless it was
for praise. So this isn't personal. =)

* * *

The only sentence related to this in the Guidelines is:

"Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate
on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting
polls about a particular resident or group, etc."

If you read that even superficially then you know it doesn't apply to someone
posting a problem to the forum community at large about an negative issue
with a particular AV or group they name.

In fact, most posters of problems with AVs they name don't expect the person
to be reading here in the first place. The posts are addressed to us, the members
of this forum.

There's nothing I see in the Linden Lab/Second Life TOS (I've read it and
search through it), nor this forum's stated Guidelines which forbids the
mention of an AV in a discussion.

The guidelines basically say that it is inappropriate to use a thread to start a fight,
such as a subject line that says: I'm Going To Get You Back, Agonopterix
Sabulella! It states that it is inappropriate to start a Poll, like Is Agonopterix
Sabulella A Complete Fool?

But there's nothing in the Guidelines which state the inpropriety of letting the
forum community know of something happening in SL (good or bad) and
mentioning names.

Nothing.

But there might be after this post. =)

...further...I'm a relative newbie here...and the system of not naming
AV names seems to work well...sobeit...my issue is that many have and do
say that mentioning an AV name is a violation of the TOS. That is simply
not true.

- Infrared

You're absolutely right, Infrared. Its really not accurate to state "Its against the TOS..." on this subject. More accurate would be to say: "Its against the forum guidelines...".

That said, indeed the guidelines aren't exactly crystal-clear. But from your post, I think you've got the general spirit of them down pretty well.

I know that you are playing devil's advocate, but the system that seems to be in place at the moment works well, IMHO. Personally, I avoid drama at all costs - can't stand it. If names were named, in titles or even in postings, in a negative light...well...that's just asking for huge amounts of drama. As helpful as those "Warning" IM's might seem to be, I always ignore them. Why? Because I've had so many urban legend emails in my time that I know better than to blindly forward someone's name along. If I'm going to do something about it, I'm going to submit an AR to LL.

Even jerks should have the opportunity to defend themselves, and not many residents read these forums (the "official" forums).

I think that's just some mild confusion...people know it's not supposed to be done and, since the TOS contains most of our rules for living in SL, they assume that's where it comes from.




That may be your interpretation, but I read the 'slander' and '"naming names" in post titles' as two different items.



You have to name a person's name in order to slander them and, without an LL employee going out to research and confirm that events have transpired as reported, any negative forum posts could potentially be slanderous. LL is simply trying to avoid all of that.

In any case, it doesn't matter how you, I, or anyone else interprets the statement...the ResMods lock threads with names named and often turn them over to Linden Review. *shrug*

Hey Travis


This is a good example of where the difference between the "spirit of the law" and the "letter of the law" come into play. =)

- Infrared

Hi Ann --


Yes...that's certainly part of it...as is parroting others who write it.

I'm happy to see some discussion about this. Though it's
not a hot topic for me...just throwing it out there... =)

Silly point:

A fact about someone who is named (and in this case a fictitious
name) is not slander. Nor is it libel.

But it would be libel if what is posted is not true. (Until we get voice
here. In which case it would be slander. Ha!)

Legally, libel is a more serious offense than slander. For obvious
reasons.

I think, for the forums, most questions about problems with
AVs or groups which end up here as threads rather than through
email/phone support channels can be presented effectively
w/o mention of any names.

"This store owner won't give me a refund. Now what?"
"This person just gave me a Linden money leech. $L all gone. What do I do?"

It's an interesting topic: "mentioning AV names in the forums".

When's it OK. When's it not.

- Infrared

The section you are looking for is 4.1 in the TOS and 4 in the Community Standards which has the same force as TOS.

Terms of Service
CONDUCT BY USERS OF SECOND LIFE

4.1 You agree to abide by certain rules of conduct, including the Community Standards and other rules prohibiting illegal and other practices that Linden Lab deems harmful.

You agree to read and comply with the Community Standards posted on the Websites, (for users 18 years of age and older, at http://secondlife.com/corporate/cs.php; and for users of the Teen Area, at http://teen.secondlife.com/footer/cs

In addition to abiding at all times by the Community Standards, you agree that you shall not: (i) take any action or ....


Community Standards
4. # Disclosure
Residents are entitled to a reasonable level of privacy with regard to their Second Lives. Sharing personal information about a fellow Resident --including gender, religion, age, marital status, race, sexual preference, and real-world location beyond what is provided by the Resident in the First Life page of their Resident profile is a violation of that Resident's privacy. Remotely monitoring conversations, posting conversation logs, or sharing conversation logs without consent are all prohibited in Second Life and on the Second Life Forums.

Almost all of that seems to be about RL information, rather than in-world situations. I've seen chat logs posted, but they generally have the other party's name removed, so I'm not sure that can be considered a breach of privacy. But, yes, the whole "you'll abide by whatever rules we set, wherever we set them" statement is pertinent.

@ Infrared:

lol, I know the difference between libel and slander, but I was going with what the guidelines actually said. And, yes, the posts naming names aren't inherently one or the other, but we as a whole have no way of knowing whether they're true or not...it's the potential for libel/slander/whatever that LL is trying to avoid with those guidelines. They obviously don't have the time or inclination to research every little accusation, so they don't want said accusations to take place here, where it could cause trouble for them. It's a CYA tactic for sure, but we still have to abide by it.

Hi Destiny --

Nothing about names.

Hi Ann --


Yes...that's true.

You know...I moderate a very active, large online community. I am the sole moderator, and I've been doing it for over six years.

When I moderate, which is fortunately rare, I post what the reasons were for my moderation. I participate. I interact. I respond to the group.

That kind of communication is seemingly missing in these forums. Interaction between the moderators and the community seems mysterious and sporadic.

But then I like sporadic mysteries. =)

- Infrared

It would be very difficult not naming avatar names in a post where our id is our avatar name.

Seems like there are a few different topics being rolled into one:

1. The point of the provision of not "naming names" means don't make a post that is directed at one person. If it's directed to one person, send it privately. Don't post something in a public forum saying "this is meant for XXX YY" or whatever.

2. Don't reveal RL personal info here about an avatar.

3. Don't say "XXX YY did this to me". IF someone was abusive to you, AR them. Don't post it here.

As I've suggested elsewhere, it looks like LL is sufficiently cool that it understands the difference between righteous indignation and vicious libel. If you are posting in righteous indignation, I am on your side. Name names if you ABSOLUTELY must, but if you want to be careful, it is fairly easy to come up with circumlocutions which will clue folks in very clearly without quite crossing that line. I think a lot also depends on who is moderating the forum at any given time. Some moderators are better than others, and their moods do vary from day to day.

(BTW technically, the difference between libel and slander is that slander is spoken and libel is "published," which usually means printed for wide dissemination. Libel is more serious because its effects are more widespread and likely to last much longer. Here, it is libel, because it is clearly published and enduring.) To be either, it has to be something that damages the target in their reputation or business. In both cases, the perfect defense against being accused of libel or slander is that the statement is true. In which case, you would be doing a public service and deserve a medal.

I think all this makes it easy and fairly safe to shout out and warn us Residents of an evil taking place in SL. Worst case scenario is the thread gets locked (but not deleted) and (probably) kicked upstairs for a closer look in LL. Which is what you want, right?

OTOH, if you are one of the vicioous libel types, whom we sometimes see, then eat shit, get cancer and die - slowly and in unspeakable agony; and let us watch. I utterly despise bad-faith posting and am trying to think of a worse fate to wish upon those who do that.