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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
07-14-2007 19:25
Well, that was funny to read, lol. It's amazing to see the breakdown in the system that LL has supposedly devised, and I especially loved one of the comments made, about the Mentor's doing the Linden's jobs, for free, but not discussing it in the group chat, as it could be bad for PR.

Right.

The idea that any other user, who is not a Linden, serving as any sort of policing force disturbs me. I don't care if they are mentors, or helpers, or whatever the hell you want to call them, they have no powers, and it seems to me that the Lindens are basically just using them for the AR's. They can ignore a standard users AR for awhile, unless they stack up, but oh, a Mentor is abuse reporting, I better check into it. I loved the way they carried themselves in that conversation.
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Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
07-14-2007 19:29
As a group, the volunteers are not following any specific directive from LL regarding policing, and the volunteers are not 'policing' SL as some have claimed. I am not a volunteer but have sources within. A few months ago LL asked all of of us via the blog to be more vigilant in world and to report content deemed broadly offensive or in violation of the TOS. This was essentially a request for us to start policing ourselves and some members of the volunteer group are choosing to do just that. Unfortunately their involvement with the volunteer group has led to wild speculation as to the group's true function. i think we all have a duty to AR players for SEXUAL age play and for displaying content that is 'Broadly offensive' regardless of what group's or organisation's we are a part of in SL.

Prokofy's article is filled with his own usual "sensational" speculation and should be taken with pinch of salt.
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Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
07-14-2007 19:44
From: Porky Gorky
As a group, the volunteers are not following any specific directive from LL regarding policing, and the volunteers are not 'policing' SL as some have claimed. I am not a volunteer but have sources within. A few months ago LL asked all of of us via the blog to be more vigilant in world and to report content deemed broadly offensive or in violation of the TOS. This was essentially a request for us to start policing ourselves and some members of the volunteer group are choosing to do just that. Unfortunately their involvement with the volunteer group has led to wild speculation as to the group's true function. i think we all have a duty to AR players for SEXUAL age play and for displaying content that is 'Broadly offensive' regardless of what group's or organisation's we are a part of in SL.

Prokofy's article is filled with his own usual "sensational" speculation and should be taken with pinch of salt.


For a change Prokofy reported the facts correctly except that I am Susie and not Suzie.

As a Mentor and a SL citizen I feel no "obligation" to go around scouting out sexual ageplay and reporting it as some people seem to feel a need to do. I tend to mind my own business.
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"If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intent of doing you good, you should run for your life." - Henry David Thoreau
Susie Boffin
Certified Nutcase
Join date: 15 Sep 2004
Posts: 2,151
07-14-2007 19:47
From: Broken Xeno
Well, that was funny to read, lol. It's amazing to see the breakdown in the system that LL has supposedly devised, and I especially loved one of the comments made, about the Mentor's doing the Linden's jobs, for free, but not discussing it in the group chat, as it could be bad for PR.

Right.

The idea that any other user, who is not a Linden, serving as any sort of policing force disturbs me. I don't care if they are mentors, or helpers, or whatever the hell you want to call them, they have no powers, and it seems to me that the Lindens are basically just using them for the AR's. They can ignore a standard users AR for awhile, unless they stack up, but oh, a Mentor is abuse reporting, I better check into it. I loved the way they carried themselves in that conversation.


You apparently didn't notice that some us were trying to stop the idiotic conversation.
_____________________
"If you see a man approaching you with the obvious intent of doing you good, you should run for your life." - Henry David Thoreau
Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
07-14-2007 19:54
From: Susie Boffin
For a change Prokofy reported the facts correctly except that I am Susie and not Suzie.


Written by Prokofy:

"Clearly, the Lindens do not appear adverse to using this newly revised Volunteers system not merely to help newbies on Orientation Island, as was their old brief, but to deploy helpers across the grid to be the eyes and ears of LL in ferreting out broadly-offensive material such as child pornography that nobody would routinely find in one of the numerous $5000/512 m2 cheap water sims up north in the continent of Nautilus."

Thats what I deem to be 'sensational speculation'. He is insinuating that the entire volunteer group is being used to police SL and to the best of my knowledge this is not true.

Its tabloid journalism at its best!
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Broken Xeno
~Fething Alt~
Join date: 9 Mar 2007
Posts: 632
07-14-2007 19:55
From: Susie Boffin
You apparently didn't notice that some us were trying to stop the idiotic conversation.



I did, but for the most part the people saying "ignore it, ignore it" were just adding to it, instead of, oh, I dunno, parting the chat. Some did just part, but the bulk, the majority of them, just kept going, and all it does is feed the fire.
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
07-14-2007 20:03
From: Porky Gorky
i think we all have a duty to AR players for SEXUAL age play and for displaying content that is 'Broadly offensive' regardless of what group's or organisation's we are a part of in SL.


Do you really think that? If you happen to live in an US state where homosexuality and other forms of "sodomy" are illegal, is it your duty as a citizen to report gays and married couples who engage in oral sex? Or is it your duty to use common sense and leave people alone if they didn't harm anyone, plus standing up to fight for your rights and the rights of others?

It's also quite important to notice where "offensive" things happen. Same as in RL: if you aren't into BDSM, stay out of BDSM clubs. But if a naked person is dragged around on a leash in the local Wal-Mart, you have every right to be offended. Entering private homes is a taboo in any case, even if the door happens to be unlocked; I think that's beyond all question.
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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
Porky Gorky
Temperamentalalistical
Join date: 25 May 2004
Posts: 1,414
07-14-2007 20:12
From: Aleister Montgomery
Do you really think that? If you happen to live in an US state where homosexuality and other forms of "sodomy" are illegal, is it your duty as a citizen to report gays and married couples who engage in oral sex? Or is it your duty to use common sense and leave people alone if they didn't harm anyone, plus standing up to fight for your rights and the rights of others?

It's also quite important to notice where "offensive" things happen. Same as in RL: if you aren't into BDSM, stay out of BDSM clubs. But if a naked person is dragged around on a leash in the local Wal-Mart, you have every right to be offended. Entering private homes is a taboo in any case, even if the door happens to be unlocked; I think that's beyond all question.


I do not think any of the things you've listed are broadly offensive and thus I would'nt report them. However, if I see a picture of a 5 years old child being rapped then I will report it as that is broadly offensive to me.
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Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
07-14-2007 21:04
A thought: we are far too quick to judge actions based on their legality. Very few people ever stop and think "Where exactly is the harm? Does it make sense that something harmless is punished as a crime?"

We tend to swallow the law as it is, even laws that try to enforce questionable moral values, and everyone who breaks the law is a criminal in our eyes. The best example of absolutely nonsensical laws: the restrictions placed on displaying female breasts. Males are allowed to walk around topless, but a female mammary is evil? Breasts are harmless as long as infants are breast-fed, but when they got older they might get traumatized by the sight of a nipple? Geez. Can it possibly get any more nonsensical?

There should be a public outcry about a law like this. How can anyone accept that? If a government is able to sell us such complete bullshit, and we swallow it without thinking, then we are in great danger of believing everything and blindly following politicians like a herd of sheep.
Alas, humans have a tendency to behave sheep-like and thoughtless. It's part of our herd instinct: always follow the leader, that's usually the best for the herd. People believe that something is immoral because a 2000 year old book says so. They believe that there's an invisible giant man in the sky, because their gullible parents and senile grandparents told them so. And they believe that a mammary is dangerous to young mammals, because the law says so.

When do we finally evolve to a point where we start to think rational, realize that the law should protect us and not restrict us, and do something to change nonsensical, unnecessary and restricting laws (even if it's only to ignore them)? How long do we tolerate that innocent people are punished in our name, the name of the public? If the persons who govern us, on our mandate, are obviously incapable to make rational decisions, they are clearly the wrong people for the job (I mean this in regard to RL, not SL; current SL rules are only based on nonsensical RL laws).
I can understand that not everyone is willing and able to fight for their rights or to attempt to change the world. "Stay out of trouble" is only a natural and rational notion. But the very least we can do is ponder if a law makes sense before blindly obeying it, or, even worse, denunciating a person for disobeying an irrational law.

If I see a red traffic light, and there's clearly no one around, neither car nor pedestrian, I have three options - and only two of them make sense. I can stop my car, because I made the rational decision that there's no harm in waiting and that I don't want to get any trouble with the law. Makes sense. I can also drive on, because I came to the rational conclusion that there's no one around whom I could harm. Makes sense too, even when it breaks a law; the law is in place to protect other traffic participants. If there are none, the law becomes nonsensical.
But I can also stop the car because "one always has to stop the car at a red traffic light". And that option is clearly wrong; once people reach that point and accept rules as absolute, unchangeable or god-given, they become very dangerous persons. Persons who are capable of anything, even crimes against humanity, because someone in a position of power gave the order or enacted a law. We Germans had to learn that the hard way.
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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
Aleister Montgomery
Minding the gap
Join date: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 846
07-14-2007 21:14
From: Porky Gorky
I do not think any of the things you've listed are broadly offensive and thus I would'nt report them. However, if I see a picture of a 5 years old child being rapped then I will report it as that is broadly offensive to me.


If I see a photo of a child being raped, then I will also report it. Not because I find it offensive (of course I do). But because someone was HARMED here. A child was harmed to create this photo, that's a very real crime. Not you or me being offended. If offending someone was a crime, the majority of us would be behind bars.

If I see an avatar that kinda reminds of a child, who is obviously having fun and engaging in consensual roleplay, in a mature area on the adult grid - who is harmed there? Where is the victim? Victimless crimes don't exist. Same with a rendered or hand-drawn image: no victim, no harm done.

There is a stage in between: if this happens in a not sex related shopping mall, there are victims in a sense. People who are shopping at a place where it's rational to assume that one won't be confronted with shocking and sexually explicit content, so the shocked and offended people could count as victims.

But if I teleport into a club that is clearly sex-themed, I can simply excuse myself and leave if I find anything offensive. I can be expected to stay out of such places if they tend to offend my moral feelings. And if I walk into someone's bedroom because the land is not access restricted, then it's ME who becomes the offender.
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Gentlemen, you can't fight in here! This is the War Room.
Strife Onizuka
Moonchild
Join date: 3 Mar 2004
Posts: 5,887
07-14-2007 21:42
Volunteer groups are afforded the same level of protection by the forum guidelines as ordinary groups.

Off-topic & Naming Names
*locks*

From: Forum Guidelines
Private discussions – the forums are a public area for the Second Life community’s use. Individuals who have a dispute with each other have other channels of communication to discuss their differences or communicate – private messaging, IM within Second Life, or chatting within Second Life. Also, threads that are addressed to a single individual or group are inappropriate on the forums, this includes slander or "naming names" in a posts title, starting polls about a particular resident or group, etc.
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Truth is a river that is always splitting up into arms that reunite. Islanded between the arms, the inhabitants argue for a lifetime as to which is the main river.
- Cyril Connolly

Without the political will to find common ground, the continual friction of tactic and counter tactic, only creates suspicion and hatred and vengeance, and perpetuates the cycle of violence.
- James Nachtwey
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