Real Companies in SL: Are they getting bilked?

No because they are getting advertising from the fact that they are here as much or more than from actual exposure in world.

Have you been to the Scion sim? I haven't. But because it was there, it was covered in the non-gaming press and I've read about it and seen the two new cars they debuted there.

Meanwhile, we are all beta testers. Guess I missed that part when I joined up.

Makes no difference to me really.........but the end product is LL is a test bed for someone else to make a serious, reliable and stable product. Wish I had known that from the very beginning and not put money in a game that was not ready for "production". And that is my main problem with Second Life. Cutting edge or not it's in the R&D stage and it was not put forth that way.......that's deceit on Linden Labs part.

You and I have batted heads before........we won't agree on these subjects.

You're right there. We live in different worlds. I don't actually disagree with you about the representations they've made, which have proven to be otherwise. I also don't mean to come across as a die hard Linden Lab apologist, particularly in that regard. I think in the last year or two they've been learning how to conduct themselves on the business front, and while I won't agree that they've been outright dishonest, I would agree that they've got work to do there. That being said, there are some pretty powerful players involved, so in my mind, incompetence is completely out of the question. Beta testers? Not quite. Beta was over several years ago.

Customers, deserving of substantially more attention than we're receiving? Definately. That's the part of the business that needs a whole lot of work, and I won't argue against that. My contentions there have had more to do with choice of venue than with the veracity of the complaints.

Peace.

To be fair every single mmorpg type thing on the net i have always seen players make this beta testing remark its true about them and about this because all games/platforms including your operating system are never actually "done" there is always a bug and always something to fix

also i find you hate this game a lot in fact i have not seen anyone hating this game so much as you why are you still here? did you buy a year subscription or something? even then I have left games I have paid for 1 year subscription because they sucked

I dont think this game sucks as much as you say yes it has many problems but its also very unique and there is nothing out there like it so I am proud to continue to beta test this particular game and engine over say world of warcraft which truly does suck lol

I believe at some point in time companies are going to add a great deal of value to their bottom line and to the customer experience through "places" like SL. Right now a few pioneers are trying to figure out a model that works.

One day a company is going to get it right; their income will be largely Metaverse-driven, and other companies are going to be scrambling to imitate their model and get a share of the gravy train.

Right now, a company interested in this market should not only think of themselves in terms of that first organization that really gets it right--they should also think of themselves in terms of the many organizations that still haven't gotten it. In other words, nobody knows how to make SL "work" for existing RL companies, and the next attempt is unlikely to be "it" either. Some companies should wait until a reliable model is developed. Others should be working now on developing one (even if it takes a few tries to succeed).

But I believe we are a market worth pursuing. We all have access to more-powerful-than-average computers and broadband internet access. And enough of us are willing to spend money in virtual reality. Beyond that, SL residents are early adopters, and people are just now starting to jump on the VR bandwagon.

I have a dream. I'm playing and working in a Star Trek-style holodeck. And it's not costing me an arm and a leg in access fees; enough people like me are spending money to make purchases influenced by our holodeck experiences that that cash flow subsidizes our noncommercial pursuits. For this dream to become reality, the sooner all the key players start working things out the better.

I would say that it would be great if current SL designers and builders could hook up with the companies that want to develop in SL. The neat thing is you have samples of your work to point to. And don't let your fascination and love for the creative process distract you from the RL value of your skills! I hope you make the next generation of SL residents envious with your wealth accumulation, so that people start competing to develop the most breathtaking and most clever SL communities.

You charge what you can get for what you can offer. If your building something for your comrades here in SL, you can charge what the market will bear. The housewife in Des Moines is not going to pay you 100k in real cash for a nicely textured sim. But Suburu has a fatter wallet, and they know nobody is going to do them any favors, so they get stuck paying a premium. I may do a brake job on a friends car for a sixpack of Molsen ale, but I wont be doing the brakes for the CEO of Union Carbide for the same price. We tend to take care of our own, but for fatcat hotshot big businesses who are just here to push outside products, take em for what you can.

You are making assumptions on a subject you have no knowledge of at all. I never said I hate the game.............NEVER!! You're zealousness at all this "cutting edge" technology and how much you love that part prevents you from seeing what I'm saying. Second Life does not work as advertised..............and it's getting worse every day. Sure use the excuse of cutting edge, they have "growing pains". Those work if there are improvements that are discernable to the average person. I'm well aware that there are improvements in scalability...........we used have a grid that was unusable at 10 K. But once they got that fixed for 10 K we were at 15 K and it still didn't work. Then it was 20 K, then 25 K then 30 K..........now it's 35 K. And it hasn't worked since the 10 K mark. They are falling behind......making no headway whatsoever. So brag on your "cutting edge" all you want but know it's not working because it is NOT.

And it's none of your business how I pay my membership and I'm so glad you have quit games you have paid for........good for you. I'm not impressed in the least

Now to state again my problem is with Linden Lab and perhaps you might be interested that I'm not alone. http://www.goldengatebbb.org/commonreport.html?bid=57373

And back to the original topic............the RL companies in SL are not getting bilked. They are getting exactly what they want. A test bed.

Guess I'm done with this thread.

I can see what you mean. "The Bureau processed a total of 13 complaints about this company in the last 36 months, our standard reporting period. Of the total of 13 complaints closed in 36 months, 11 were closed in the last year."

That means that on average they get 1 complaint every 3 months. WOW! I don't see how a company that has had over 4 million residents could have so many complaints! [/sarcasm]

The companies that are buying in right now are probably getting their money's worth from their builds in SL -- not from the in-world exposure, because there just aren't enough people in SL yet to justify a 6-figure price tag, but from the press coverage they have been receiving out-world.

In the future, once establishing an SL presence is no longer newsworthy, they will have to receive value for money from their in-world presence, which could happen in either of two ways; either by SL growing much larger, or by using it effectively as an e-commerce platform, or both. And I mean MUCH larger -- 1 million or more REAL participants, giving it a reach comparable to a modest cable TV channel, a major newspaper, or a reasonably successful magazine. But if the current rate of growth can be sustained, it could be there in a year.

I believe that SL has real potential for e-commerce. If nothing else, LL has solved the micropayment problem; it's possible to sell goods here in SL for pennies and not get killed by financial transaction commissions. Sure, between the Lindex commission, the buy/sell spread on the Lindex, and the PayPal fees for turning your balances into cash or the LL fees for other options, you're losing about 5% of your money (and the buyer may be losing another percent or two if he buys from the LindeX, depending on the size of purchases), but that's vastly better than anything else out there for transactions under US$1.

hehe your posts are filled with bile and whatnot not just complaints and moans like the rest of us but bile hence it looks like hatred maybe if they were less full of bile you might not sound like you actualy hate the game

I agree, the constant upgrading of the infrastructure is a clear sign of a bad system. Someone else starting from scratch could implement a clever design that would enable a completely lag-free experience for over a billion concurrent users while running the entire grid out of their basement using a 486 with DOS and a dial-up modem. Heck, maybe I should do it next weekend.

They get their column inches for being Noo Meeja Savvy so it pays for them.

Actual builds being used in SL by SL residents? Not so much, and I doubt they care.

With all the issues going on with sl? How long are they going to put up with all the problems. Unless they are running these special treated usersor ad paying users on a total diff server only for high paying users? Makes you think!

I like to see the stats on this one..




thats if the server hold.. and we dont have a complete melt

I think you need to quantify differences between large corporations and small businessmen if you are looking at real life business and the viability of Second Life as a type of 3d website for first life commerce.

A large corporation can make a decision to trial SL as a platform, spend a few hundred thousand dollars on creating a great place to visit, yet write it off against corporation tax if it does not work. Ultimately the shareholders pay. A clear example here is IBM, in fact if I were a shareholder in IBM I would expect them to be here to enable them to gain a better insight into virtual reality worlds, and would accept the few cents per share loss if it did not work out. Remember Microsoft, Windows 95, and Bill Gates realisation the web was going to much more important than Microsoft had originally thought, hence the billions of dollars Microsoft designing a better web browser and related integrated software in the Office package.

The best example of a real life business within Second Life that I have seen and believe may pay off is Dell Island. Here you do pretty much the same as you do on Dells website, that is design a computer to your personal specifications, take it out and pay for it in real US dollars. I admit at present it is slower than the Dell website but the great advantage is that you may be able to talk with other avatars or even Dell employees while doing so to make sure the options you select may be the most efficient for you. That personal interaction cannot be obtained on a website, and I would think we would all agree that some users of Second Life are highly computer literate.

Of course there is the issue of small business. I personally fall into the classification as I advertise my real life business in Caledon. Here (for me) the driving criteria is cost based, in other words my total presence in Second Life costs far less than a conventional website, of which in my business there are hundreds of thousands of them. I considered it was worth a gamble because of the unique nature of SL and because my own business is more or less totally based on personal interaction on a one to one basis

What has yet to be proved is the reaction of current and future SL end users towards real life business in Second Life.

I think it is fair to say currently a significant minority would currently never ever consciously allow Second Life to interfere with their first life. A clear working example is perhaps the Gorean community and other role-playing SL users. To test this theory my current SL location (Caledon) is a themed collection of Sims (UK Victorian Era)

To balance this I am also considering developing another site in the Dreamland Sims, there in Dreamland is an elective grouping of more or less a good cross representation of all in SL. We will see what happens.

As I said before the decision to use SL as an advertising media for small business people must be cost based, a big increase in my own costs would prompt me to leave unless I suddenly started to grow substantial business from it and most important could identify it.

I believe a small majority of people using SL would make an elective decision on an individual basis as to the use of real life business in a virtual environment. In some cases they may shy away believing a buying decision was not relevant for that particular service, and in other cases the purchase decision may be based on practical need. I think I can offer one clear example here and that is training, virtual learning and collaborations with your peers, conferencing, one to one discussions, and any other legitimate first life meeting. Neither the Net, video and/or telephone conferencing, nor any other media can currently equal the potential of virtual worlds of which Second Life is currently first among equals

But if SL takes off and becomes a useful add on or addition to the more usual 2d browser (for example a bit like the Google toolbar) I think the current social/economic make up of the average SL user may change or evolve, from the current scenario where a majority of people use it as a type of escapism, to that of a mixture of people who may use it as a social, domestic, pleasure, and business site. Not much different from the current use of the Net as a whole.

I claim copy write for this post, you may reproduce it in a personal capacity for non profit for debate on this BB, but I would respectfully request external linking or commercial use of any concepts mentioned here be authorised by myself. Please feel free to contact me in either real or virtual life via my Caledon Cay location in SL

Regards

John Horner – Second Life
Paul Hayward – Paul Hayward Financial Services (First Life)

Sorry John - You posted it here, Linden Lab owns it

Very interesting thoughts..

I've always thought the real question should be:
Real Companies in SL; Are WE getting bilked?

This used to be our world our imagination. Now we are all just numbers in some marketing firms budget.
I shun everything corporate in SL because I think its dispicable that the world we built has been taken over by accountants and PR men.
Media hype, corporate dollars, and advertising budgets have done nothing to improve SL's landscape or performance. To the corporations its just lost advertising dollars, to the residents of SL who actually enjoy the enviroment ... well, we've been sold out to the highest bidder.

All I know is I'd hate to be the marketroid who tries to do an SL dog-and-pony show for upper management.

"You blew your budget on this?"

Ok very good piece of writing............!

I have been a stockholder of IBM, where they ever here in SL .Well........advertizing yes and No! But "lenovo" the PC div is called ( chinese 88% owned 12% worthless IBM part )WAS. That whole VR thing about IBM and LLABS was the biggest loudest BS to dated with their PR.. There was never any really proof that IBM spent or had invested and monies in LLABS. Or even MENPOWER.

Usagi

Maybe so, but I'm going to answer anyway. For months now, I've seen the future of SL as possibly being Advertising Land (I used to call it Advertising World, but the initials for that are the same as Active Worlds, so I changed it).

With the idea being that SL will be for advertising real-life products, and the people get to come in for free because after all, who would pay just to see ads? So there will be real-life advertisers and revolving-door eyeballs who come in to see the ads and go out.

I think LL wants both - both us, playing in our little homes and selling our little outfits to each other - and companies advertising their real-world products (and sometimes giving away the in-world products we charge for).

But I'm not sure LL can have both, and, forced to choose, I think they would choose the real-life advertisers. In fact, I think LL actively chooses things in their favor now, such as, for example, taking away the in-world sales record that we need, but the real-life advertisers don't.

I also feel that advertising real-life products is entirely different from advertising and selling things to be used only within SL.

As such, I feel the real-life companies should be charged more to use SL for their advertising, as sponsors. And we should be charged less, as players.

That's the way most of the world works. However, it's not the way this world does. I haven't been able to get facts on this (not surprisingly), but hints have been made that these real-world companies may actually pay LL less for their land here, though they pay the companies like ESC and MOU a huge amount.

Which would be backward from the way I think it should be. I think they should pay more, and be treated as sponsors. If anyone working for ESC or MOU or RRR or other such groups knows if these real-world companies strike deals with LL to pay less for their land (or tier) - or not - please let me know.

In any case, because the distinction is not made between advertisers and actual players, I feel the game will ultimately go to the advertisers.

coco

Which sucks.

With so many other potentials to thier little platform, LL has taken the cheap whore way out. But I guess thats what you get when you follow a man in a glittery codpiece.

Could you point me to the press releases and statements by Phil Rosedale and/or Robin Harper, wherein it is revealed that Linden Lab intends to give the finger to all the residents made Second Life what it is today, and give the grid over to greedy corporate advertising executives? Or did you get your hands on some internal documents, maybe their business plan, sales and marketing plans, or something else? Or did you gain this insight from a recent palm reading?

I think it's just a wee bit soon to be jumping to such extreme conclusions.

yes

I don't need to jump to conclusions sweetie, I am only commenting on what I've witnessed over the last 3 years of being involved in SL and paying LL for the privilege of participating in thier little Web 2.0 marketing experiement.

I didn't come here for the ads or the free virtual Toyota. But I will wander off because of them, much the way I flip the channel when I hear the Head-On commercial again, even if I do come back to the program that had the bad taste to play that commercial AGAIN.

I don't want ads, I don't want a virtual Toyota, and I don't want RL corporations here 'coz hey, you know, I get enough of that crap IRL. What I'd hoped for here was a virtual enviroment where creativity and free expression were the goals. I dont need a press release to know I've been 'given the finger' and had 'My World, My Imagination' handed over to the corporate scum-bags, I can feel it up my bum just fine.

Oh Pie. LL has opened their doors to everyone. What would you have them do? Say no to big companies that want a presence in-world as much as you do? LL has investors and is responsible to their investors. Do you think their investors want to shut out corporate America? I'm sorry, but that's the reality of things as I see them.