SL on CSI NY Repeat on Tonight

thanks chosen, i have to search for that episode, not for the sl side of it but for a feeling of closure, that episode was left unfinished and i always like to see them finished. not a huge fan of csi ny (unlike the regular csi - grissom) but thanks for letting me know it was all created inworld, the graphics were truly remarkable, despite any contraversy that may have followed, which i did not know about until i read this thread

Actually, that isn't the case, although it is a commonly misused stat. The foremost reasons small businesses go out of business is the large number where the principals are the only 'employees' and they either are hired out of their business or their business is subsumed by another business. Many successful businesses also 'go out of business' by change of name (common early on) or change in business form (bring in partners, incorporate or losing partners to become a sole proprietor). While significant, the numbers that fail are far, far fewer than the ones that simply change in some significant way.

Unfortunately, articles tend to equate going out of business to failure and that simply is not the case. I have moved back and forth and in every case I did not have a business failure - I was simply offered more money and benefits than I was making self-employed. And that really is not uncommon...

On the other hand, just getting by and not making money probably is a fine line of difference when you get that job offer.

Curtis, with possible the exception of your very last paragraph, I think you misunderstood my point. If you believe it's true that most new business owners make a lot of money, I have to question how many new business owners you actually know. I've personally known hundreds, and I can count the ones who never had to struggle, on two fingers. It takes years of hard work to see positive financial results from almost any new business.

It is an established statistic that the majority of business owners do not make a profit for at least five years. It is also an established statistic that the majority of businesses go out of business within that same time period. The question of whether any particular business closed because of "failure" or because of some other reason arbitrarily labeled as "other than failure" is most often one of semantics. The end result is the same, no matter what it's called. The business closes. And the reason is almost always the same, no matter how its spun after the fact. With few exceptions, people who are making a lot of money in their businesses don't tend to close their businesses, period.

Every once in a while, there's an exception, sure. Successful small businesses do get bought by bigger ones, and some people do open businesses with that goal in mind. But again, that's the exception, not the rule. The vast majority of small businesses are started by people who have a specific dream, and almost no one who's motivated enough, and brave enough, to do all the work it takes to turn such a dream into a reality will ever surrender it very easily.

Your point that some businesses close because the owner got another job offer, while certainly not untrue, is really moot. With the exception of retirees, ALL business owners get other jobs when their businesses close. Everyone has to make a living doing SOMETHING, after all. Sometimes, an owner will stick it out until the bitter end, and then take that other job only after going completely broke. Other times, things are going just badly enough that the owner gets spooked, so they accept an offer while still sort of doing OK. Either way, it's generally a lot easier to say, "I got another job offer," than to say, "I failed," or even, "I just wasn't very good at running my shop myself, so I ended up back to work for someone else who's better at it than I am".

I think my earlier explanation holds, no matter what the circumstances. The reason most (not all, but most) businesses go out of business is because their owners aren't making enough money. If a business is putting tons of money into its owner's pocket, chances are the owner won't be about to leave it. But if the owner is experiencing financial hardship, then it's pretty easy to find reasons to get out.




For my part, I've been self employed most of my adult life, so I'm not without experience on this subject. I've certainly had no shortage of job offers in my time. I've refused almost all of them, primarily because, like most business owners, I've believed in my dream, and I've wanted to remain my own boss. The only times such offers were even remotely tempting were when my own business was in a downswing. (I could tell you lots of stories of weeks and months when my hourly-paid secretaries made a whole lot more money than I did. It happens.) But at times when I was doing really well financially, there was no reason even to consider making a change.

I've seen friends and colleagues accept such offers many times, almost always during times of financial hardship, only to regret it later when things don't go the way the recruiters had promised. Once you've worked for yourself, it can be hard to surrender the reigns to others, and even harder when you end up the helpless victim of those people's mistakes.

I know my sister did and she loved it, loves it. Kinda both, I guess. She is on hiatus. I watched it and was blown away. I thought that maybe it was just my PC! LMAO

Woot! Thanks so much

So very very true, Chosen. I have been there a few times myself. It amazes me when people close their doors but still call their business a success. That three month reserve you need to start a business is no longer true, it's more like three years you need, but it can be done. If people think they are going to pull in a fortune by having their own business they shouldnt even start one. I have tightened my belt so many times I can't count them. Net profit can be so low it makes you want to shudder. In my experience 3% is a good take, unless of course you are service. I doubt many people realize that.

Again I wish you luck on your endeavor, Chosen. I know you have the brain cells to be a success, too bad that isn't all it takes.

No, most businesses that are run as businesses (not extended hobbies) do not take five years to make a profit because of the high number of start-ups that are single individual self-employed businesses with relatively low expenses. There are a lot of 'statistics' bandied about, but they don't hold up well to analysis. I guess if you shifted through the substrata and found the right class, it may be true (reasonably heavy capital investment or start up costs, employees required, etc.)

I didn't say they didn't struggle and indicated as much in several comments, but most - the majority - of small business start ups show a profit by any accounting method by the end of the second year and most show a positive cash flow before that. The issue is that neither justify an effort above and beyond what you go through in a 9 to 5 job for many people, so they either sell the business - as a business or for inventory and receivables - or simply fold the business and take a job because the rewards/effort ratios weren't what they expected. Hell, I've seen what people would call a successful business be folded because the owner got tired of six and seven day weeks and phone calls at all hours - when some of my clients would kill for those problems.

That many small businesses do not make enough profit to justify them to their owners or enough cash to pay all the bills is a different issue than business profitability and positive cash flow, and the definition of success would vary. An attorney that knows he or she could make hundreds of thousands in a position would not find a net $ 50,000 a year business necessarily successful.

Heh!

The whole "running yer own RL biz" was fun for me.... for a while.

Doing In-Home PC Repairs. Didnt matter if it was Computer or network related. I did it. Loved doing it!!

Unfortunately, I also live in an area where people think $100 to fix/upgrade their PC's is "too expensive". 9 times out of 10 it'd be one of those "Walmart Specials".

LOL! My answer was simple: Take it to Best Buy & see what they charge you. Usually I got called back a week or a month later, by the same people, who still balked at $100 flat rate to fix it. Those that I knew that couldn't afford it, I did for free, with a promise to tell their friends.

It helps to live where folks aren't "cheap bast*rds", as my dad says.

The few that *did* pay for it got a bargain, and a computer that works again. I still get a few calls from them now & again when they have a problem.

I can't talk about numbers because that's covered by a non-disclosure agreement. But I will say that Virtual CSI:NY greeters were paid reasonably for the work we did, and to the best of my knowledge all greeters received all the money they earned. Pay was only delayed once, and that was because of a holiday.

There was a controversy (reported here in the forums and on various web sites) with the IRS about whether people like greeters should be treated as employees rather than contractors. But that's a separate issue, and one that was moot just about as soon as it came up, as the IRS got involved shortly before the closing of CSI. It wasn't cause and effect, just a coincidence of timing. (IMO, ESC's position that we were not employees was correct. But I am not a lawyer of any sort, and especially not a tax lawyer.)

Shirley Marquez, former CSI:NY Greeter