People get a grip

Since I can't get any real answers because people are so caught up it this tripe, I thought I would relate a few things, just to think about.

My X was 5' and 90lbs, wore girls size 12 jeans. One day while at the beach, I was rubbing suntan lotion on her back when I was snatched from behind, slammed into the sand and handcuffed, because the beach patrol thought I was molesting an under age girl.

I once worked with a sweat little blond, she was all of 4'10" and maybe 85lbs. She would sneak into the theaters regularly as being under 12, she was 23. So if people in the real world can't judge age by appearance, what yard stick are you going to use to judge the age of an avatar?
Now before you go off on me, I am against any depictions of pedophilia when there is no doubt as to what it is.

A while back here we had a gay man almost beaten to death by a man, his brother, and his brothers oldest son. Why? Because the mans 9 year old daughter was raped. When the father was informed of this; while at work, he assumed the gay man down the block did it, picked up his brother and brother's son on the way home. Didn't even go home, went right to the gay mans house, pulled him out in the yard, and started beating on him with what ever objects were handy. The 2 men are now serving 15 years, the son has 2 more years in juvy before he starts serving his ten in adult prison. It turned out to be his neighbors son. He was 14 and got 4 years in juvy. Moral of this store is watch out for your assumptions and over reacting, it will bite you in the butt.

One of the near by tourist islands used to have a nude beach, but due to juveniles sneaking on to the beach it was closed down. It was easier to close the nude beach then try to keep the kids off it. So the nude beach was closed because of people going there that shouldn't have been there. So in most instances like this it is easier to throwout the baby with the bath water.

So what's this boil down to? If it isn't banned in the real world, leave it alone in SL. Yes, that means ban the real world depiction of pedophilia. Everything else is fine, and not any business to those not involved.

Now can we get back to real business and answer some newbie questions.

I truly wish it were that simple. Sadly SL does reflect RL.

Accepting the fact that over 3500 men and women have died in a war fought over false pretenses is being a "patriotic American".

A pop singer's breast being exposed on live TV is a national scandal.

Understanding that inconsistency is helpful in understanding what's happening on SL.

Second Life isn't Virtual America. "Banned in the real world" could mean just about anything depending on where you are in the world. Plus, the topic everyone's debating is a massive grey area that LL is trying to turn into clean black and white to appease whatever legal pressure is on their backs.

Turning it into black & white is exactly what they refuse to do. Accusations, confusions, fear... it would all be unneded if they'd finally clarify what is allowed and what not.

"Second Life isn't Virtual America. "Banned in the real world" could mean just about anything depending on where you are in the world." Too true. In russia 14 is the legal age, and in Japan pubic hair is a no no. So lets say laws that apply to the area the main server is in.

None the less, I am a newbie, and I would like some questions answered but with the cluster F that is going on right now, my questions get pushed off the page too fast to be answered.

If it weren't for those Bloody DJ's I would still be in the dark about a lot of things. Thanks to all of them.

Please. Making that analagy in regards to SL is a slap to every one of them. And an insult to those serving currently, members of my Family included.. Besides thre is a thread for Outrageous Historical Comparisons.

What Brenda said . . .

Thanks Brenda - you saved me from making the same request.

What is happening on SL is part of a larger social issue. The media finds things to sensationalize and create a public outrage, politicians pick up on the outrage and pass stupid laws, and a little more freedom is taken away.

Assisting them are the moralists who look for things to condemn.

If you think this is outrageous, let me ask you something; which is more obscene, war or nudity? Which is repugnant, genocide, Darfur for instance, or gay marriage? Yet why to the so-called moralists (the Moral Majority, James Dobson, FoxNews) spend so much time attacking sexual and other personal issues and not war and bloodshed?

I have nothing but respect for the brave men and women fighting Mr Bush's War. I have nothing but contempt for the cowards who put them in harms way.

The bottom line is American society has a very skewed value system, and what is happening on SL is a clear manifestation of that.

I will however apologize for my tactlessness in making such an indelicate comparison. It was not my intention to upset or offend, simply to point out what is happening is not simply an SL phenomenon, but is a national issue.

"Assisting them are the moralists who look for things to condemn."
Yes, I do have a life story for everything. A preacher went into this move rental palce a few blocks from me, it had an adult section that he entered, and selected a move to rent. Two days later he brought it back, said it was offensive , and had his church group picketing the rental store that after noon. The picketing went on for 2 months. The owner of the rental store hired an attorney, but legally there was nothing he could do. He went out of business. The man lost almost everything, and the closing of the store put 8 people out of work. The preacher then claimed this as a victory. Some victory, ruined a mans life, put his family out of their home, and put 8 more people on the unemployment line because he was offended by a movie he purposely walked in and rented to be offended by.

Exactly! It is that mentality that will destroy SL if unopposed.

ask away Manstan

So, what is Linden Labs to do? Not have any rules or lines that cannot be crossed? Allow a "world" where anything goes and nothing is taboo? Now lets take that thought to another area (yeah, I think I can do that since somehow someone drew a comparison to America's envolvement in the Iraq war and SL).

Hate speech, offensive depictions of minorities, and open membership in hate based groups are all "broadly offensive" to the community.......and most will agree with those bans. However, if you truly want complete freedom for your world you would also allow those to exist. You don't want a line drawn condemning child sex, yet you applaud the line on discrimination, Nazi groups, KKK groups. I mean that KKK or Nazi is really only roleplaying..........why not let him do it? Is his/her goose stepping or cross burning actually really hurting anyone in RL?

We all know the answer to that.........of course it is. Yet, many here refuse to accept the fact that depictions of child sex are in exactly the same catagory as a hate group, hate speech, discrimination and many other globally dispicable practices. Banning of such activities will not cause SL to come in an end.........failing to ban such activities very likely will.

Yeah, it is time to get a grip.

guess what gets me with the post, and everyones reaction, is that as odd as sounds things are reversed of RL. Most people who end up in the situation where they are Havening sex with a child avatar, and likely the same for others like Consensual rape. Is that the people who are doing the what most have issues with, being the aggressor, are not doing it for them selves Most probably don't care they are with the person they love (I am not going to get into for sale sex that is something completely different and dose not need to be related.)

There partner for what ever reason wants to act like a child, Most may think it is odd but are ok with it. They feel safe, comfortable, relaxed, and sense the person behind the keyboard is a adult wants even more of a release. So they ethire do something to make it sexual or have told there partner that they want this (what I am sure happens for the v-rape is being asked to do by the submissive, normally female avatar) So there partner out of Love, care and respect fills there wishes without havening to change from being a child to a adult.

To Have to Break what was going on and change to a Adult avatar would be similar to start watching a movie and then suddenly havening it changed to the movie that was next store. Or reading a book and finding that you only have half of it before it goes and changes to something different. to a good Role Player RL/OOC dose not exist when they RP. they are there character, Like a good actor.

This blog post, is a attack on them. they are being told no you can't do what is natural to you. For filling the wishes of your lover you are a pedo. You want to go out and hurt children because you lover happens to want to RP and it becomes a sexual release.

I know this sounds odd to all but sometimes the most experinced but being dominate is the ultimate submission in some cases. You do anything you can do to make your partner happy. And how much more dominate can you get then you are going to do what I want willingly. It is a switch of roles. in 90+% of cases if the person in the submissive role said stop (well maybe not stop but safe words are a other topic) it would end the only questions asked being are you ok and possibly what happened that made you want to stop.

I am sure no one will see that the point I am trying to make. Maybe we should be spawned a grid/ sector on the main grid that makes it so obvious where you are going with 100's of Pop ups going You are going into a adult area are you sure? and it's own advertising database that is only accessible from that area. But I do think people should be free to go between the two because I think store owners should profit from those who are considered deviant with out havening to setup shop in our area .

I almost think there should be a shopping grid that even the teens could go to, or is some how co located so that teens could shop there but not be in the same physical space as adults so not needing the extra security problems. You know something like how preview is setup but updated in real time. and I don't know some massive legally binding penalties for braking the rules like no adult content. But that is an other tangent.

I think there should be more people up in arms over this then there are. But then SL is so big, and the forum are so regulated we have to basically sneak things buy the mods and still get cut off at 11 pages or less. Anyone want to make a group and possibly donate some land tire to have a place where we can gather and talk with out resident moderators cutting us off?

Acidraven Harrington
Child Avatar
Height detector 1.0.4: AcidRaven Harrington is 1.191803 m
(3 feet 11 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the Colors high…
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never say we die.
Freedom is for Everyone.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/full-reign-of-self-expression-for-consenting-adults-in-second-life.html
BTW anyone know why my .sig not adding to the end of my posts?

I say we all stick to the virtual issues, instead of sniping at and mocking those who are giving their lives for our country....

I only have a Issue if they come off there land and try to force them selves on others. I am not running around with and drooping a pose ball on someones front yard and haveing sex. I am not even going around and Searching peoples vacant houses looking for sex posballs and using them. I am not buying land and Making Huge signs Depicting me havening sex.

I am just being on my own land in my own sky island, texting with my love, and you want me thrown out. what did I do wrong?

Acidraven Harrington
Child Avatar
Height detector 1.0.4: AcidRaven Harrington is 1.191803 m
(3 feet 11 inches) tall. (counting your shoes)

Yo, ho, haul together,
hoist the Colors high…
Heave ho, thieves and beggars,
never say we die.
Freedom is for Everyone.
http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/full-reign-of-self-expression-for-consenting-adults-in-second-life.html
BTW anyone know why my .sig not adding to the end of my posts?

As far as I know you did nothing wrong. However, if and when age verification comes to SL you would be a little safer if you verified and flagged your sky island as adult. It might also be best to keep your texting in IM incase someone happens along within normal speaking distance outside. Also don't put anything in your profile discribing what you and your love do in private.

Actually, all those suggestions are nothing but common sense things to do to be considerate of others around you. As far as I've read there has not been a statement saying you would be banned as long as you keep your stuff private. No one can prevent a "do gooder" from camming into your sky island should that do gooder decide to do so.........however, I doubt any sanctions would be placed on you. Unless you are trading child porn, rape, graphically violent material or other broadly offensive stuff. LL has merely warned us...........keep it private, keep it legal.

And, for the life of me, I cannot see why you and others are so worked up over it. But the little nursery story of "Chicken Little" does come to mind.

Actually hate speech/groups are in a different category from ageplay and rapeplay. Hate groups by their very nature are attacks on other users. Ageplay and rapeplay are not attacks against children or women. (Or at least from what I've read, not intended to be. I'm sure others have other opinions on that.) Whether public or private, you can not create a hate groups and not intend to attack others.

Basically I'm saying that it used to be that the policy was, anything goes as long as you are not emotionally or verbally attacking other users/people. (attacking other users "physically" with weapons though, completely allowed. ) Now it seems the policy is going beyond that. And SL users are unclear about what is and isn't allowed anymore.


I noticed that too. (It is getting kind of annoying have to type "X. Plor R. Moore" at the end of all my posts.) I think it is happening because they turned off BBCodes on the forums. Actually I'm surprised that the quote tag and smilies still work.

--X. Plor R. Moore

Did I say "ageplay" or "rapeplay" in my post? I believe I said "child sex" and absolutely nothing about rape. And yes a group depicting or endorsing child sex does fall in the exact same catagory as hate groups. The intent is clearly to harm a child. I wish people would not change words others use in an attempt to make a statement of there own..........and put up an argument to support that statement in refuting the original argument.

And also, I can see a "hate group" being formed that might argue that they are causing no harm in their intent. It doesn't even require creative thinking to come up with a "justification" for such a group. The funny thing is that any attempt to justify such statements would be discounted immediately. Why isn't a group or person advocating child sex so quickly shunned and banned?

Maybe you should attempt to read and UNDERSTAND what I wrote before you fired off a response. You're talking about one thing, I'm talking about another. You want to go off on a tangent, don't quote me.

I always thought LL missed a fun thing with its treatment of hatemongers in SL. Banning theM? Dulsville. I wish they had just declared demonstrable, public "hate speech" behavior and appearance fair game for griefing. Would have been hella fun and given griefers a socially useful outlet...And I guarantee the hate-group idiots would have gotten the message loud and clear.

I've long since given up all hope on the human species.

No law or lack of it can protect us from the stupidity of
which we are capable.

Anecdotal stories of extreme stupidity may be compelling
but for each there likely exists a story that is just as
compelling for the opposing viewpoint.

All we can hope for is sensible laws and fair enforcement,
and even though I've given up hope on humans, I do hope
that we, as a community, can demand and be goverened by
fair, reasonable and CONSISTENT laws.

Ok, I misunderstood you, it was an honest mistake, not an attempt to twist anyones words around.

I thought we were talking about sexual roleplay, not real life advocacy groups in SL. (I think advocacy group is the right word for pro-real life behaviors groups.) As a matter of fact, at what point were advocacy groups brought into the discussion, before your post. There are hundreds of posts about the LL blog post so I could have missed that part of the discussion.

It just seems (to me at least), that you brought up an issue that wasn't being discussed, and then attacked me for thinking we were still talking about the previous issue. I thought all the posts on the forums so far were about roleplay, I thought this tread was about roleplay. Maybe this whole tread isn't even about the the blog post, or maybe the blog post isn't about roleplay, maybe it is about advocacy groups. I don't know, I can only go by what I thought this tread and the blog post was about.

(By the way, I do believe there is a difference between roleplay and advocacy groups.)

--X. Plor R. Moore

Are we all so thin skinned that we must coddle ourselves inside of some 'OMG I CANT DEAL WITH THAT' cocoon? Im not advocating that racist, gay bashing, kiddie rapers be allowed to run rampant on the streets hassling the citizens. But private assembly of people, to do whatever, need not be crushed for the sake of keeping various sensitive types all cuddly and 'safe'. We have had PG and Mature sims for years. You know that when your in a mature sim you run the risk of seeing things that may be offensive to your moral sensibilities. You also know that when somebodies ban lines are up, they dont want you inside, even if it is physically possible to cam into the interior. You peep and eavesdrop at your own risk. So if somebody has a property, in a mature sim, with the doors locked, LET EM DO WHATEVER THEY WANT. Let em run around in KKK sheets, telling each other gay jokes, while they take turns boffing a sheep. If your not looking, you wont know it exists. You allow such things to occur behind closed doors because once you start banning things it doesnt stop, the list gets longer and longer. Who's complaints do we heed next? The Amish? Sooner or later all your sexballs are gone, you cant say 'damn' anymore, and the underwear police are looking up your skirt to make sure your wearing panties. "HEY YOU, STOP THAT BALLROOM DANCING! THATS TOO MUCH PHYSICAL CONTACT!"

'Broadly Offensive'


It would have been better worded by saying 'found offensive by a large number of people'.

Broadly offensive, in this case means found offensive by many(hopefully many) people. They aren't going to ban you and take your land because of one complaint, but they might for an undetermined number of complaints.


The problem I have with this new policy is I basically pay for hosting(my land) and tools to make my land functional. There is a fine line between one person being offensive and the other person simply being intolerant. Just like any web space, if it's offensive, stay away from it.

Considering that people all over the WORLD connect to SL, there should be alot more tolerance for what people get offended by themselves in SL. I had thought that it was more a case of what you do on your property in your mature sim is your business as long as you keep it that way.

After sex, comes politics. Not PC enough? AR'd! Too PC? AR'd! Whatever it is, it's gonna be "broadly offensive."

Then comes the narrower definition: What?! You haven't signed the Loyalty Oath?! You don't perform the Naboo whenever you see a Linden? Banned!

You saw it here first.